Quick question, quick answer

[The Song of Spears]

Ok, i am having an issue determining the meaning of a rule. For units that deepstrike, or come in in reserves:


What does it mean when it says they come it at the beginning of the players turn?

Does this mean they come in before the forst phase, the movement phase?

Or does it mean they come in at any point during the first pahse, the movement phase?

I can find no definition of what 'beginning of players turn' means so what is the general consensus here?

[Eulenspiegel]

At the start of the movement phase, before regular movement takes place.

If you have several stuff that has to be done "at the start of the turn" or "... movement phase", just mention everything to show you didn´t forget anything. If necessary discuss with your opponent in which order things are done.

[Lastie]

What does it mean when it says they come it at the beginning of the players turn?

The enter onto the table at the beginning of the Movement Phase, before you begin the process of selecting which of your units you wish to move (if any).

Does this mean they come in before the forst phase, the movement phase?

Technically in 40K there is nothing before the first Phase, unlike WFB which has a 'Start of Turn Phase' (forget the exact name). Essentially they are the very first thing you do in that Movement Phase before anything else.

Or does it mean they come in at any point during the first pahse, the movement phase?

See above.

I can find no definition of what 'beginning of players turn' means so what is the general consensus here?

THat's a problem with the lack of proper structure with the 40K Turn when compared to its older sister, WFB. Basically, Deep Striking troops and troops arriving after being held in Reserve are the first act of that Movement Phase. Once those troops have finished Deep Striking or moving in from the board edge, then your Movement Phase may procceed as normal.

[Codsticker]

Since the wording is a little vague (ie. what constitutes the start of a player's turn?) we dice for reserves, then we roll Regroup rolls and make Fallback moves, then we bring on Reserves and Deepstriking units that have successfully made their rolls and then we move other units. Our reasoning is that rolling for reserves is made at the beginning of the turn, Regroup rolls are made at the "start of [the] movement phase" and it doesn't specify that units coming on must come on a the start of the turn or even at the start of the movement phase. It does say they must come on as soon as they are available and we interpret this to mean that you can't bring them on in any turn after they make their reserves roll, they must come on in the current turn. Bringing them on after Regroup rolls and Fallback moves but before other units make their moves seems like a reasonable compromise.

[The Song of Spears]

Ok, thats what we have been doing, but it still seems odd that there is some assumption that there must be a order to all this.

I think the statement that they units come in at the beginning of the players turn should be during the playres movement phase as that is the first phase of the turn. However, logically it makes sense for a unit to be able to complete its move then call for reserves (while still in the movment phase)

i.e. a seargent with a teleport homer should be able to move his squad into position then, if the reserves roll was made, teleport the reserves in.

Is this stated somplace as being incorrect? Or is it simply believed to be unfair?

[Eulenspiegel]

i.e. a seargent with a teleport homer should be able to move his squad into position then, if the reserves roll was made, teleport the reserves in.

Well, he does have at least one entire turn for that

Honestly, Teleport Homers are powerful enough tools already. I really think one more turn of movement, to which the enemy can´t react, would be too much.

[The Song of Spears]

With the way you put it, i think you are correct. Turn 1 is essentially the sergent making the reserves call, then beginning turn 2 the reserves start rolling to come into play. By that time the sergent should be in postion.

Thanks for the response everyone!

[Follow]

The rule is a little vague, while it says that these units must be diced for at the start of the turn, it does not also say that they have to be placed at the start of the turn (at least for rules like daemon summoning, maybe others do, not sure). In my opinion, there are already plenty of disadvantages for deepstriking in the first place, so giving them some slight advantage with a liberal reading of that rule is not ill placed.

You must roll to see if your reserves are available before any other thing is done in the turn, but you place your reserves at your leisure during "the turn in which they become available," as the rule says. That's how I play it anyway because it does follow the letter of the rules, though no more or less correct than the other reading and I think deep striking comes with plenty of penalties to offset this advantage. And just for the record, I don't use deepstrike much, just against it.




Follow

[HeraldoftheGods]

Personaly I'd say the deepstrikers would have to be deployed immediatly after their roll has been made. The rule says;
"Roll for arrival of these units ... and then deploy them as follows".
To me that seems a pretty sequential thing. As soon as you've made the reserve roll, you then deploy them.