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Thread: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

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    Chapter Master Sildani's Avatar
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    Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    Hi all,

    Well, it's time I did some things differently. I've been running a hybrid Wraithwall/mech list and it's done decently, but I feel it's time for a change. To that end, and since I'm about to finish a second Fire Prism and a squadron of War Walkers, I thought I'd run these. They go from 1000 to 1850, so I can always get into a game. With no further ado:

    1000 Pts - Eldar Roster - Yme-Loc I

    HQ: Autarch (1#, 92 pts)
    . . 1 Ti'fanii Darkheart; Mandiblaster; Power Weapon; Shuriken Pistol; Avenger S-Catapult; Haywire Grenades; Plasma Grenades

    HQ: Autarch (1#, 92 pts)
    . . 1 Sivalon Surehand; Mandiblaster; Power Weapon; Shuriken Pistol; Avenger S-Catapult; Haywire Grenades; Plasma Grenades)

    Troops: Dire Avengers (11#, 272 pts)
    . . 9 Squad Tuledann
    . . . . 1 Exarch Gildor Goldbranch; Bladestorm ; 2 Avenger SC
    . . . . 1 Valiant Defender(Wave Serpent); Spirit Stones; Shuriken Cannon; TL Shuriken Cannons
    Troops: Dire Avengers (11#, 272 pts)
    . . 9 Squad Cinnebal
    . . . . 1 Exarch Rael Silverbranch; Bladestorm ; 2 Avenger SC
    . . . . 1 Gallant Wing(Wave Serpent); Spirit Stones; Shuriken Cannon; TL Shuriken Cannons)

    Heavy Support: Fire Prism (1#, 135 pts)
    . . 1 Nii-Frith; Spirit Stones; Shuriken Cannon; Prism Cannon
    Heavy Support: Fire Prism (1#, 135 pts)
    . . 1 Fuu Inlae; Spirit Stones; Shuriken Cannon; Prism Cannon

    Total Roster Cost: 998

    Right. Deploy in reserve, get the vast majority of the army out on Turn 2, if not all of them, then zip up to the enemy and shoot them. The Prisms are versatile and fast, and I've never run two before. Should be fun. The Autarchs go with the Avengers, and I've been contemplating replacing Bladestorm with Defend, since with only two squads I think I'd want them to shoot as much as possible, and if they're charged Defend might make a huge difference in whether or not they survive. Hmmm.
    I suspect I'm weak on anti-tank here, but at 1000 I shouldn't have to deal with too much armor. I hope.

    AT 1250:

    Autarch Sivalon gets upgraded to Yriel (should be a nasty surprise!)

    The War Walkers appear:
    Heavy Support: War Walker Squadron (3#, 180 pts)
    . . The Silent Striders
    . . . . 1 Tahliadeth (Scatter Laser; Scatter Laser)
    . . . . 1 Y'lintil (Scatter Laser; Scatter Laser)
    . . . . 1 Dahaidith (Scatter Laser; Scatter Laser)

    TOTAL: 1241

    The War Walkers should always Outflank, giving my opponent another thing to worry about. Their scatter lasers should tell against light armor or pesky Devasator squads or their equivalents. Yriel is there for the possibility of there being heavy armor/monstrous creatures about - remember, he's Str 9 against vehicles. His Eye of Wrath might also come in handy against hordes.

    AT 1500:

    All of the above, plus:
    Fire Prism Nii-Frith gains holo-fields
    Fire Prism Fuu Inlae loses its chin shuriken cannon
    Elite: Fire Dragons (7#, 233 pts)
    . . 5 Squad Niallen
    . . . . 1 Exarch Feanor the Burning Fist; Crack Shot ; Dragon's Breath Flamer; Melta Bombs
    . . . . 1 Hearthkeeper(Wave Serpent); Spirit Stones; Shuriken Cannon; TL Shuriken Cannons

    TOTAL: 1499

    Adding Fire Dragons to help with the greater numbers of tanks and MC's I'll probably face. Also gives me another Wave Serpent.

    AT 1750:

    As above, and adding:
    Fire Prism Fuu Inlae gains chin shuriken cannon
    1 Fire Dragon
    Fast Attack: Warp Spiders (8#, 218 pts)
    . . 7 The Fate Weavers
    . . . . 1 Exarch Lykhosidae; Withdraw ; Powerblades; Death Spinner x2

    TOTAL: 1743

    I love these guys. There's nothing they can't do with their masses of Str 6 fire, amazing speed (remember they can move 12", Run 1d6" if needed, and move 2d6" in the Assault Phase), and they're not terrible in CC either. My free safeties for years, they perform for me again and again.

    AT 1850:
    +1 Warp Spider
    Fire Prism Fuu Inlae gets holo-fields.
    Wave Serpents all gain star engines.

    Star engines are there to insure the Serpents get across the board instantly.

    I'm sure there are a lot things I could do better with this, so please tell me about them! Thanks.
    Last edited by Sildani; 16-04-2010 at 20:14.
    My Craftworld Yme-Loc project log
    Quote Originally Posted by Chandrila
    Let's all try to keep a bit of perspective. We're all going to buy the new book anyway. We all have models already. Why don't we actually use those models, and the new book, and play some games? Who knows, maybe we'll have some fun accidentally.

  2. #2
    Chapter Master NixonAsADaemonPrince's Avatar
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    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    Generally, I'd just exchange an Autarch for a doom/guide Farseer, they are just too good to be ignored, can get you out of a scrape.

    At the larger points you definitely need some more troops, I'd suggest a couple of little units of jetbikes, but that's up to you.

    Other than that, generally good, should be fun to play.

    Nixon

  3. #3
    Chapter Master Sildani's Avatar
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    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    You've a point about the Farseer, but I worry about the Reserves rolls, +2 seems better than +1.

    I agree about the need for more troops, but what should be replaced by the Jetbikes? The Warp Spiders?
    My Craftworld Yme-Loc project log
    Quote Originally Posted by Chandrila
    Let's all try to keep a bit of perspective. We're all going to buy the new book anyway. We all have models already. Why don't we actually use those models, and the new book, and play some games? Who knows, maybe we'll have some fun accidentally.

  4. #4

    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    its not just the doom guide combo,after 1500 RoW almost becomes more important.
    *edit* pfff "almost" ...alot more important
    Last edited by MrBo114; 17-04-2010 at 05:27.

  5. #5
    Chapter Master NixonAsADaemonPrince's Avatar
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    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    The warp spiders would be the obvious choice as you would be replacing fast with fast, but if you want to keep them just lose any extras, so keep the spider squad bare minimum, get rid of the exarch off the dragons and any other extras you fancy, though this isn't an ideal way of doing it.

    Nixon

  6. #6
    Chapter Master Thud's Avatar
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    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    You need more anti-tank. Two Prisms and a small Fire Dragon squad just ain't gonna cut it at 1750 or 1850.

    Also, you have a scoring unit problem. Two scoring units is generally fine, but not the way you're using them. I.e., actually using them. Those twenty guys are gonna start dying awfully fast once you disembark from their flying cars.
    Thud is the new black!

  7. #7
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    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    As said above you need more anti-tank. Try giving the Autarchs fusion guns instead of the avenger sc, it's makes them a very cheap and effective hidden anti-tank model.
    Drop the dragons breath flamer from the Fire Dragon exarch and give him a firepike and tank-hunters, you don't want to be mixing roles with a fragile unit like that, and it makes the most of the tank-hunter/AP1 combo.
    You should be able to fit all that in at the cost of two Dire Avengers.

  8. #8
    Chapter Master Sildani's Avatar
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    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    All right. Thud: would guardian jetbikes sort out the scoring unit problem? Also, I have a good amount of Str 6 flying around; couldn't that act as anti-tank?

    Stag2016: nice ideas, those.
    My Craftworld Yme-Loc project log
    Quote Originally Posted by Chandrila
    Let's all try to keep a bit of perspective. We're all going to buy the new book anyway. We all have models already. Why don't we actually use those models, and the new book, and play some games? Who knows, maybe we'll have some fun accidentally.

  9. #9
    Chapter Master NixonAsADaemonPrince's Avatar
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    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    S6 isn't going to hurt a lot of things mech wise, you need to get some more melta really, so either give it to the autarchs or get another dragon squad.

    Nixon

  10. #10
    Chapter Master Sildani's Avatar
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    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    I have 11 Dragons and three Wave Serpents, so Autarchs it may well be.
    My Craftworld Yme-Loc project log
    Quote Originally Posted by Chandrila
    Let's all try to keep a bit of perspective. We're all going to buy the new book anyway. We all have models already. Why don't we actually use those models, and the new book, and play some games? Who knows, maybe we'll have some fun accidentally.

  11. #11

    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    I don't like small games (1000, 1250), but your list at 1750 looks good (and 1500). A Farseer would not work well with reserves because he gets to use his powers so little, being off the board or the turn that he comes on the board, that's basically 2-3 turns where he can't use his powers. I doubt that he's worth taking just for RoW, plus it's less in theme with your list.

    I'd definitely give one of the Autarchs a fusion gun and WJG and put him with the spiders.

    2 troops in 1750 can get by.

    If you had a 4th Serpent you could include another fire dragon squad (by making them both 5-big) and shaving off the odd point or two for 1750. They'd certainly fit in 1850. I'd definitely recommend them at some point (I run the same 2x6, plus some banshees in WS).

  12. #12
    Chapter Master Sildani's Avatar
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    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    Hmm. Getting some conflicting opinions! More troops, or not... this seems to be the question.
    My Craftworld Yme-Loc project log
    Quote Originally Posted by Chandrila
    Let's all try to keep a bit of perspective. We're all going to buy the new book anyway. We all have models already. Why don't we actually use those models, and the new book, and play some games? Who knows, maybe we'll have some fun accidentally.

  13. #13
    Chapter Master Bartali's Avatar
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    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    I think the addage that someone posted on here, that you need one troops choice for every 500pts, holds true.

    As Eldar troops are so fragile (and expensive), I'd only ever plan on one unit out of three (at most) at 1500pts seeing the outside of a transport. For mech I'd do two davu units (with bright lance serpents or dakka falcons) and a flamer guardian storm squad with destructor or enhance warlock. They do a similar thing to the Dire Avengers, but cheaper.

    Guardian jetbikes are an alternative, but need larger squads (six minimum) and a Farseer on a bike. Don't get tempted to do the three bikes, they'll be targetted as soon as they come out of reserves and won't work on last minute objective grabbing unless the game ends on turn 5.

    Edit - To give you an idea the below is 1412pts, leaving 88pts for upgrades

    Autarch
    Autarch

    Fire Dragonsx5
    Wave Serpent w/Shuriken Cannonx2 and Spirit Stones

    Fire Dragonsx5
    Wave Serpent w/Shuriken Cannonx2 and Spirit Stones

    Storm Guardians x 10 w/Flamerx2
    Warlock w/Enhance
    Wave Serpent w/Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon and Spirit Stones

    Dire Avengersx5
    Falcon w/Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon and Holo-fields

    Dire Avengersx5
    Falcon w/Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon and Holo-fields

    Fire Prism
    Last edited by Bartali; 19-04-2010 at 09:11.

  14. #14
    Chapter Master Sildani's Avatar
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    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    Thanks for the input, Bartali, but I have no Storm Guardians and two Falcon hulls. I could bash a squad... but I think I like jetbikes a bit better.

    One thing about your list: how do I hurt the enemy? It seems to me that the two squads of 5 Dragons will kill one thing, then melt. The Falcons will cruise about until the end of the game shooting at targets of opportunity, then zip over to objectives on the last turn. The Storm Guardians... what exactly will they do?
    My Craftworld Yme-Loc project log
    Quote Originally Posted by Chandrila
    Let's all try to keep a bit of perspective. We're all going to buy the new book anyway. We all have models already. Why don't we actually use those models, and the new book, and play some games? Who knows, maybe we'll have some fun accidentally.

  15. #15
    Chapter Master Bartali's Avatar
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    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    Quote Originally Posted by Sildani View Post
    Thanks for the input, Bartali, but I have no Storm Guardians and two Falcon hulls. I could bash a squad... but I think I like jetbikes a bit better.

    One thing about your list: how do I hurt the enemy? It seems to me that the two squads of 5 Dragons will kill one thing, then melt. The Falcons will cruise about until the end of the game shooting at targets of opportunity, then zip over to objectives on the last turn. The Storm Guardians... what exactly will they do?
    The bolded part is how mech-eldar plays without a Council. Our T3 4/5+ troops and aspects are expensive and fragile, and need transports to keep them durable. The transports are expensive, not leaving you much points to actually kill stuff with.

    Mech Eldar is all taking out your opponents mobility first, then use your speed to try to spread your opponent out to take out isolated units before moving to contest on turn 5.

  16. #16
    Chapter Master Sildani's Avatar
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    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    Huh. It sounds like I don't have enough stuff to pull this off.
    My Craftworld Yme-Loc project log
    Quote Originally Posted by Chandrila
    Let's all try to keep a bit of perspective. We're all going to buy the new book anyway. We all have models already. Why don't we actually use those models, and the new book, and play some games? Who knows, maybe we'll have some fun accidentally.

  17. #17
    Chapter Master Dweomer's Avatar
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    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    Okay, since you asked nicely, I'll put in my commentary...
    1. Strip the upgrades off the Prisms. Shuriken Cannons and Spirit Stones are nice for big games where you need them and have the free points. But mostly they're going to be wasted baggage. Same with the Holofields... it's nice, but costly. A single Holofield is 1/3 the cost of another Prism.
    2. I'd take a Farseer as the second HQ. But make it a basic model with Doom, Runes of Warding and maybe a Singing Spear. Yeah, you lose a +1 to your Reserves, but Turn 2 should see you in on a 3+ anyways. Being able to shut down enemy Psykers is critical at 1.5K+.

    Really, your list isn't bad, just a little scattered and mono-focus. You'll do great against massed infantry and normal armies once you've popped their tanks. But a good mech-heavy list is going to cause you headaches, especially something like gunline IG.

    I think Bartali's got the right idea. I'd still make a few modifications...
    1. Swap Autarch for basic Farseer.
    2. Maybe take some large Dragon squads, but that's not critical.
    3. Dump the Spirit Stones and chin Cannon from the Stormie Serpent. Keep it simple.
    4. Enhance is wasted on Stormies... they're still just Guardians. Either take a Destructor Lock w Spear or don't bother with a Warlock at all.
    5. Swap the second DAVU Falcon for a Serpent w Bright Lances.
    6. Use the savings above and change to get a second Prism.

    He's especially right about the Jetbikes. You'll want to take 6+ and a FortuneSeer at these sizes, lest they get shot to snot. The only time I recommend 3-man is in 2K+ where there's a plethora of other targets around to distract fire off them.

    If you're worried about having the models to pull it off, what might be easiest is to get a listing of what you have. Maybe what you're wanting to get too. Then a list can be constructed to maximize that. Cheers!
    Eldar Runes math-hammer
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  18. #18
    Chapter Master Sildani's Avatar
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    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    Okay. Here's my current Eldar collection:
    HQ
    Avatar
    All Phoenix Lords
    Farseer
    Autarch w/jump-pack, mandihat, fusion gun, power weapon
    Yriel
    Female Autarch w/power weapon, Spearhead of Twilight, Avenger shuricat
    Bonesinger
    Warlock
    Warlock/Farseer on jetbike

    TROOPS
    Some 25 Dire Avengers
    10 Wraithguard
    Around 12 Guardians/defunct DAs/old 2nd Ed./RT DAs
    1 Ranger (I loved the model)

    ELITE:
    10 Banshees, Exarch w/executioner
    6 Scorpions (in progress), Exarch w/claw
    10 Fire Dragons, Exarch w/ magged flamer/firepike
    10 Harlequins with Master, Seer and Jester, 9 Kisses, 2 fusion guns

    FAST:
    10 Warp Spiders with Exarch

    HEAVY:
    2 Wraithlords
    2 Fire Prisms
    3 War Walkers (in progress)

    TRANSPORT:
    3 Wave Serpents

    WANTED:
    Ideally nothing. New Serpents cost $41, jetbikes are $15 apiece. Yes, they're cheaper on eBay, but I don't know how trashed they might be (used models) and they're not that much cheaper than retail when you factor in shipping (new models).

    C'mon guys, there's got to be an effective non-Wraithwall list in my collection somewhere!

    I refuse to accept that I lost this fight in the "purchase models" phase!
    Last edited by Sildani; 20-04-2010 at 18:57.
    My Craftworld Yme-Loc project log
    Quote Originally Posted by Chandrila
    Let's all try to keep a bit of perspective. We're all going to buy the new book anyway. We all have models already. Why don't we actually use those models, and the new book, and play some games? Who knows, maybe we'll have some fun accidentally.

  19. #19
    Chapter Master NixonAsADaemonPrince's Avatar
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    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    This is the list which uses only models you have, and seems to fit the general consensus of ideas, I hope this is pretty good as I didn't have a lot of time:

    Autarch with Power Weapon, Warp Jump Generator and Fusion Gun: 115 points

    Farseer with Runes of Warding and Doom: 95 points

    5 Fire Dragons: 80 points (In Falcons)

    5 Fire Dragons: 80 points (In Falcons)

    10 Dire Avengers with Exarch with 2 Catapults, Bladestorm and Wave Serpent with Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults: 252 points

    10 Dire Avengers with Exarch with 2 Catapults, Bladestorm and Wave Serpent with Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults: 252 points

    10 Storm Guardians with either 2 Flamers or 2 Fusion Guns, Warlock with Destuctor and Wave Serpent with Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults: 232 points

    8 Warp Spiders with Exarch with 2 Deathspinners and Power Blades: 203 points

    3 War Walkers with Scatter Lasers: 180 points

    Falcon with Scatter Laser: 130 points

    Falcon with Scatter Laser: 130 points

    Total: 1749 points

    There you go, not sure about the Falcons but I didn't want to use excess models.

  20. #20
    Chapter Master Bartali's Avatar
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    Re: Scalable Eldar Mech/Reserves denial

    I think you're going to struggle to do a mech reserves list with three transports. Ideally you'd have two squads of Dragons in Serpents, and then three mobile troops choices either in Falcons, Serpents or on Bikes.

    Your original lists look fine with what minis you have, although I'd probably field the Dragons as a 10 man squad if you're only using one of them

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