Been a little while, with not alot of progress since I last posted, just a few shots since I took them for another site of how the whole lot look at the moment, the Standard Bearer is almost finished, Ill do a close up of it once I've done the standard itself.
Slightly better pic of just the Infantry:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/P5090007.jpg
Slightly better pic of the HQ & Heavy Weapons:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...d/P5090008.jpg
Being a Zulu War aficionado myself, I can honestly say that I love the Praetorians, and these guys are fantastic.
Gravis, have you thought about converting the Gatling gun heavy bolters to the naval type with the cylindrical drum magazine instead of the sickle type? To my knowledge, it was naval ones that were deployed at Ulundi, and I have an idea of how to convert the drums if you're interested. In addition, have you thought about making a rocket battery to represent mortars? Extremely easy to do using a half-pipe of brass tubing, a bipod, and the plastic missile from the Cadian Heavy weapons sprue. Hell, give me a shout and I'll send you three of mine myself!
Yeah I did give some thought to a cylinder ammo drum, (your quite right that naval Gatlings were deployed during the campaign, though that said so was the armies first Gatling battery) I decided against it in the end simply for simplicity, I had an ample supply of the old Heavy Bolters and they fitted perfectly with the Sentinel Assault Cannon with very little work, I know its not toally historiccly accurate but I think it gets the right effect.
I've given some thought to Rockets also though I've not made any move on actually modelling some yet. I'm also of two minds whether to do them as Mortars which would better fit the actual weapons effect or to leave the Mortars so I can do a Howitzer artillery piece which really just seems like a cool concept, even if again its not entirely historiclly accurate.
To make the launcher, it should actually be a V shaped 'launcher' as opposed to a half pipe (as picture below), I've played around with the idea pretty much as you described other then that difference though, once the I've done my full Infantry Company (another two Platoons of 35 each) and 6 Guns and crew for each of Gatling, Lascannon and Autocannon it'll probably be one of my next projects, or sooner perhaps, I'll see how I get on!
Hales Rocket Trough
Last edited by Col.Gravis; 09-05-2006 at 22:06.
Erm. . . Rocket trough = mortars and big field gun = missile launcher.
Dave out.
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It's a fair point highmarshaldave, though as I mentioned above some Howitzers of sorts really appeal to me, something like these below.
Of course thats not to say I could'nt use something like those to represent another class of field gun which as you mentioned could use Missile Launcher rules, the thought had occured to me though Im not entirely satisfied with the idea (mostly I'd say from the gamers point of view, I can just forsee some people being awkward with Rockets being Mortars and Mortars being Rockets). Its something to ponder.
Last edited by Col.Gravis; 09-05-2006 at 22:26.
Hmm, I feel the missile launcher = field gun is a logical idea.
Most light to medium field guns had multiple types of ammo for varying purposses, and were faily accurate direct fire weapons. By comparrison, early rocket launchers were horribly primitive, rellying on luck, a good wind and a high explosive warhead to achive anything. See. . .
Course, battery of long range field guns = bassilisk. And battery of short range howitsers = medusa. With heavy bolter team for defence. . . Modled on a big base. With earthworks.
Dave out.
". . . and due to a small, seemingly insignificant, clerical error there are, in fact, two highly secretive organisations at work in the Imperium dedicated to destroying the denizens of the warp; neither one aware of the existence of the other. . ."
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From the viewpoint of someone who understands why these things should be represented that way I agree, but I'm not counting on that being common, and certainly in the tourny enviroment for example which I regularly frequent. I quite agree with what your saying, Hales Rockets wer'nt employed in Zululand for their destructive ability, but rather because it was felt at the time it 'scared the natives' which it clearly did'nt, they seem to have infact viewed them with some degree of contempt. (lol which does actually sounds alot like most peoples opinions of Mortars actually lol)
Definately agreed with the vehicle analogies, that'll be something I'll again tackle much later on.
They look amazing. I love the artillery conversions
Quite right sir, I overlooked that in favour of the easy option of hacksaw+brass=trough. Consider my wrists slapped, I'm normally a stickler for historicaly accuracy.Originally Posted by Col.Gravis
However, I really do think a Hales rocket battery wouold be the perfect parallel to a squad of mortars. I agree with highmarshaldave about field guns being missile launchers - it's the direction I've gone with my BEF IG, but I appreciate that your chaps are a good few decades earlier and may want to do your own thing.
Lastly, are you taking Rough Riders? Having a cavalry squadron in navy blue jackets bearing pennant lances would look brilliant, and really top your army off with that mid-late colonial look. (Again I'm having flashbacks to Ulundi, here.)
Last edited by Morden279; 10-05-2006 at 08:09.
Well I'll have to wait and see, looking at those two heavy weapons is for me a fair bit ahead yet, the other three are my core choices, the others I see more as being useful extras.
Definately there'll be cavalry, Lancers (Hunting Lances), Dragoons (Lascarbines) and Hussars (CCW & Pistol), I've experimented with their modelling in my previous Praetorian force though they were redcoated, the new ones will go with historical uniforms, which certainly in the case of Lancers means Blue Coats with White Trim, the Dragoons meanwhile will be Red Coated, Hussars, well to be honest I hav'nt looked into their uniform yet for this period.
I'm not up on British Military History, but I can tell you for sure that this army looks seriously great! Well done, Col.Gravis!
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Bizarely I was digging through my Praetorians yesterday evening thinking I should do something with them and lo and behold inspiration appears!
Did you make the pointing captain using the vehicle mounted commissar body? He looks amazing!
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Have you thought about modelling Sikali (Natal Native) Horse as carbineers instead of using Dragoons? They'd offer added uniform variety with their khaki fatigues and fit in brilliantly with the inherant colonial/Zulu War theme of the Praetorians themselves. (They fought with historically overlooked bravery and fortitude at Isandhlwana.) Foundry sell the relevant minatures if you fancied doing a few headswaps. Here's a picture:
I'm not sure about period Hussars either, but I'll have a gander on the 'net and see what I can find.
@ Christine, its the old Tank Commander which used to ship with the Leman Russ prior to the new accessory sprue, just a Praet leg & head swap and a few other minor alterations to finish.
I'll add to the pics my old Praetorian Commander at this point as well, did it a few years back (which shows quite alot when you put it up against my new models first person - the pics of the new stuff detract from it somewhat I'm finding) though it was the second version of the model, I'll do a third version later on for the Battalion CO, hopefully my sculpting and painting have increased enough by now to do such an officer justice lol
@ Morden, I like that idea quite alot, not something I'd considered (though I think I'd end up doing both lol), I'd really have to look at a way of doing it either from scratch or with GW components tho, I'm trying to keep it all done in such a way that I could potentially use any elements at a GT for example, rather annoyingly they dont allow you to use even elements of other models in your figures for these events.
I'll have a dig around for Hussars myself later on, f you do happen to spot anything though I'd love to hear about it
Last edited by Col.Gravis; 10-05-2006 at 21:08.
If you didn't want to use the Foundry models, slouch hats would be possible to green stuff with practice (I'm rubbish, myself...). As for the heads themselves, I'm sure you have the choice; just avoid caucasian-looking beards/moustaches and you'll be fine.
The tournament model restrictions you mention are actually quite worrying, at least from my point of view, as most of my Guard are going to feature head swaps from other ranges. To be honest, I disapprove of such restrictions, especially if the use of other components is something that minor. On that note, don't you find it ironic that the Praetorians themselves actually started of life as Mordians using the heads from 25mm Zulu War miniatures? How such laissez-faire attitudes change...
Anyway, a Google turned up this, a picture of a late Victorian Hussar officer's tunic!
However, contrast that with this portrait of a turn-of-the-century 19th Hussar:
My Osprey book on the Old Contemptibles portrays an 11th Hussar in home service full dress wearing the same blue tunic as the 19th Hussar above, only with red breeches instead of blue - I think they varied from regiment to regiment. In conclusion, I think that the hussars of the late-victorian period wore dark blue tunics with gold braiding uniformally and that the scarlet jacket was for officer's occasion dress only.
BTW: That mounted officer is increadible, I'd love for you to do him again and post a step-by-step guide right here in P&T!
Last edited by Morden279; 11-05-2006 at 07:45.
Col. Gravis, that has to be one of the coolest Guard commanders I have ever seen.
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Yeah, should be easy enough really to do, I'll probably tackle it that way. I dislike the restrictions strongly as well, I can understand to a point if its whole models, but where it is simple heads swaps or where the majority of components used at least are GW I see no reason why they should'nt allow it.
I was'nt aware the Praets used heads from another range tho(?) I was under the impression the Perry twins had simply sculpted new heads fro the range?
Nice finds, thanks for sharing
TY for the comments on the Officer, though I like the model, I really dislike the paint job on him now, and being as he uses alot of green stuff and plastic in addition to the metal components I suspect stripping it would probably end up messy, so yeah, new version somewhere down the line!
For the moment though the Standard is just about finished, Ive done all the base work now, I printed out a design on the PC on paper (Aquilla with Scroll on one side, company and battalion designation on the other, nothing elaborate), then applied a single layer of tissue (1 ply) to the paper to get the right texture and once dried painted the banners base colours following the design underneath. Tommorrow Im gonna try and attach it too the banner pole, I thinking Ill pretty much soak it with watered down PVA first tho to get the dymanic curves if I can, once thats all dried apply the highlights and hopefully that'll be that more or less! Watch this space!
Well, I guess I'll have to find out how my boys are treated when I field them eventually. I have exactly the same perspective as you on this one, I really do't see why some people have to be so obtuse.
You may be right mate, but that's just the way I remember reading about the Praetorians back in an old 2nd edition WD. I still have it somewhere, I'll try and dig it out.
No problem! As for the gold frogging, I honestly don't know if that was for home service dress only, and that it was replaced by matching blue frogging on campaign to look less conspiculous. It might be an idea to find a Victorian military re-enactment forum and post a topic on there featuring any questions you have - I'm sure the members would have a wealth of information to provide.Nice finds, thanks for sharing
Busbys would look awesome, and in my experience, I medium between variety and similarity is something you should strive for. As a result, the blue jackets would distinguish themselves as cavalry like the lancers, but the busbys would differentiate them as hussars, along with thier sabres. In other words, go for it!
Excellent, can't wait to see it mate!
I was thinking of modelling my Enfield standard out of plasticard layers and strips to make it look "embossed" like the GW Cadian standard, topped off with one of those brassed-etched FW Aquilas. It's pretty ambitious, but I think it'd look top once completed. However, I'm a novice at scratch banner-making, so I'd greatly like to see how yours turns out.
Agreed, I guess I've just taken the root of taking no chances, its a shame because it closes so many avenues, but at least I hope I wont run into any problems.
I'm not sure lol, I might have a dig around myself I dont remember it mentioning anything about that in there mind, but then thats not to say they'd say that if it were the case.You may be right mate, but that's just the way I remember reading about the Praetorians back in an old 2nd edition WD. I still have it somewhere, I'll try and dig it out.
Yeah I may well do that, I have visited a few forums, mostly when I was trying to establish unit strength, most useful I found site I believe www.rourkesdriftvc.com very interesting forums they had there actually.No problem! As for the gold frogging, I honestly don't know if that was for home service dress only, and that it was replaced by matching blue frogging on campaign to look less conspiculous. It might be an idea to find a Victorian military re-enactment forum and post a topic on there featuring any questions you have - I'm sure the members would have a wealth of information to provide.
All very true lol, well Hussars will probably be the second group of Roughriders I do so thats something for me too think about, I'll have to do a few practice runs though at some point!Busbys would look awesome, and in my experience, I medium between variety and similarity is something you should strive for. As a result, the blue jackets would distinguish themselves as cavalry like the lancers, but the busbys would differentiate them as hussars, along with thier sabres. In other words, go for it!
Yeah I thought about doing something very similar early on, taking a blank plastic standard and scuplting on the detail and icons, the attempt I made at it turned out rather poor though and was'nt dynamic enough. The finished standard bearer is sitting on my bedside table now and its really come out better then I expected, certainly the dynamism is there I think, Ill post pics tommorrow along with how I did the conversion.I was thinking of modelling my Enfield standard out of plasticard layers and strips to make it look "embossed" like the GW Cadian standard, topped off with one of those brassed-etched FW Aquilas. It's pretty ambitious, but I think it'd look top once completed. However, I'm a novice at scratch banner-making, so I'd greatly like to see how yours turns out.
This thread is making me really regret selling my Praetorians! Oh well, that was years ago.....
Anyways, I was going to convert some Empire Pistoliers into Praetorian Rough Riders at some point. Not quite what you are looking for, but they are GW tourny legal.
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