Gothic Resin Terrain

[leigh103]

And the final product...



Plus, some new stuff coming...

This is a master I've done, that I felt was too much like the GW stuff. I don't want to just copy what they've done, so I binned this one...


I finally made one I was happy with, this was the 6th effort I think - and is based on Neo-Gothic architecture (wiki ftw), which should look cool once it's cast. I've also added some skulls and a scroll over the window. I was hoping to cast these today, but the silicone hasn't cured- and I'm kinda worried that I've not mixed it properly We'll see...



I've also made a start on the 2 part molds of the first design, so the detail will be on both sides, and it'll make the model more complete.

[leigh103]

Been busy again tonite - coz the silicone eventually cured

The 2 part molds didn't turn out great, mainly coz I rushed the piece that I molded, and it's wonky - but also coz I didn't put oil between the 2 parts, so they stuck togther... oh well, live and learn eh.

The new casts are looking good tho, thought I'd post some more pics, altho the flash has made them look a little flatter, and less detailed than they actually are -



This model has a new building system which should mean they go together a little easier, plus a proper corner section. The first model just uses a normal buttress, and it can be hard to glue it at 45degs - this new one should get around that problem



Plus the top of the window section is layered, so the window on top kinda slots in. I've also done some spikes for this model, as it's quite square and flat.



The window section pictured will make up the majority of the window sections for the building - and I'm going to make a variant for the top windows, with more of a gothic arch, to finish the building off.

I've also got more to build - it's like a city in a box!

[mattjgilbert]

I like how the banners turn out. Thanks for the pictures of the moulding process, looks like fun

[leigh103]

Ok, I need help now...

I'm undecided which way to go with these new models, so I'm gonna tell you where I'm at.

The original models are fine, and I like them, but I feel they don't look 'sci-fi' enough for 40K, which is my main reason for wanting to do different styes. So I've been researching different architecture - like neo gothic buildings and old style gothic buildings - and came up with the new mold.

I think the new models (pictured above) defo look neo gothic, and it was what I was originally aiming for, but now I'm thinking I need more detail. I'm gonna do a test building, with the new ones, but I'm probs going to do a few more masters until I get something that I'm happy with. I think I've kinda gone from 'too old' to 'too modern' - and I think somewhere in between is where I want to be.

So I have some links from the inspiration I've used so far, and I'd like to know peoples opinions on what would fit into the 40k universe the best.

I like the 'gothicness' of this... http://english.ncu.edu.tw/susanna/im...archi02/11.JPG ... but not sure I'd be able to model it

I like the details on this... http://historicbuildingsct.com/wp-co...rial-tower.jpg ...is a possibility

and this was the inspriation for the new model... http://z.about.com/d/architecture/1/...er56674983.jpg

So what you guys reckon? Is the original model more Warhammer than 40k - and would a neo-gothic type building, with gothic details be the way to go for a more 40k look?

[Finn]

The Tribune Tower is one of my favorite buildings in Chicago.


I think anything with a Gothic influence can be 40k. I also think it's more 40k than WHFB, as WHFB doesn't tend to have 3-story buildings that aren't castles . Also the ruined look to it. I think you've done an excellent job. The only way you might "40k-ify" it some would be to add some Imperial or Chaos iconography, but that's just gravy.

I've done some molds in the past, and I found the molding silicone prohibitively expensive. Would you mind linking me to the stuff you use?

[leigh103]

Hi Finn, thanks for your input - yeah, the Tribune Tower is awesome. Never been to Chicago, but I'd love to go there.

I'm actually over in the UK, but I get my RTV from here... http://www.mbfg.co.uk/category-129/1309.html

Ends up being £24 with postage, about $34 - and yeah, it can be expensive. I've found pouring the RTV in those little plastic boxes is an efficient way of doing it (they were £4 for 25 off eBay), but the 1Kg gets used up pretty quickly. I've tried different materials, like alginate, silicone putty but RTV is hands down the best by far. Silicone putty is really good for temporary molds when ur making the master models, but it's not durable enough. Alignate just doesn't work with resin.

So back onto the 'whats the 40k look' question - I think I've missed the mark with the new models. The corner section has turned out well, but again, it's just lacking detail. So I've come up with an idea.

I'm gonna use the original models, put the new ones to one side for now, and add details to it, to make it look more sci fi. I've done some temp molds of pipes and vents and other little bits, and I think it does the job ok.

So, I'm glad you've said that they're more 40k - I think I might be back on the right track. I have also thought of getting an eagle on there, or like u say, a chaos icon or something, so I think I might make some, as well as the pipes etc.

Keep the suggestions coming

[leigh103]

Thought I'd post some pics...

Added some 'sci fi' details to the tower I did


and a brief test of the new models, that I'm not keen on

[Finn]

One of my favorite pieces of terrain in one of the LGS franchises here uses piping to great effect. It's kind of small, but it works out great. However, I feel these add more of an 'industrial' feel to terrain, unless it looks like a tenement or something of the sort. Your buildings look to have a more 'functional' feel to them (administrative, churchlike, etc.), and I think pipes would detract from that theme a little. Catwalks and the like are also great.

Ventilation ducts/systems, on the other hand...if used sparingly could be pretty cool. I use very fine copper mesh from hobby stores and once upon a time I found 'clear plastic canvas' (basically large sheets of small squares) in the crafts section as well, for which I've found many uses.

How are your sculpting skills? Sculpting an eagle that juts out from the building a bit wouldn't be too taxing or time-consuming, could probably get it right within a couple of tries if you've got a little experience. "Imperial Gargoyles", if you will.

And about the silicone, that's slightly better than I already had (which after looking at their other products, I probably overdid it - I think I could have gotten by with a quicker set, but it's the same price...). $27.50 USD for 1 lb. (slightly less than half of what you got) with a 10:1 mix ratio.

As someone with an interest in molding, and improving what I've got so far, I realize I should have also asked what you used for resin. At present I'm using RP-40 by Dascar Plastics. Says it's a polyurethane casting compound, it seems fairly brittle. I'll admit I don't know much about resin. I just went with what I could get cheap on eBay and in a quantity of less than 5 gallons .

[leigh103]

Ok, I'm liking where you're going with this then - stick to the style, and add more icons and gargoyles and stuff - rather than add bits that might not fit properly.

I'm fairly handy with sculpting, so I don't think it'll be too much problem to get something that fits - so yeah, I think this is the direction I'll go next. Thanks for that

I'm also going to try using different buttresses. On the very first model on the 1st page, the window section seperator is a flat piece with big rivots in it - I think the pipes and industrial look, might fit better with that - so i'll try this as well. Mix and match!

With the RTV, I normally get shore A hardness, with a fast catalyst. I think the red catalyst is the quick one, and the blue one is the medium one (don't quote me on that!). I've used both, and prefer the red one, saves time waiting - and I'm always excited to get casting. Altho the blue molds I have do feel like they're tougher. Like I said, I can go through 1Kg really quickly, and by the time I've finished the tub, I find myself wanting to do more. I've spent £75 on 3 tubs, and I don't feel like I've got £75 worth of molds. On the other hand, I've got a box full of building parts - but somehow it's hard to justify buying more silicone.

The resin I use is a 2 part polyester resin here - both parts are added in equal volume, which Ive found really easy. I also add fillite - which gives it the stony look, but also increases the volume of ur resin, which makes your casts a little cheaper. The fillite does make it more brittle, but I've found it to be really good for making ruins, as the breaks are textured - rather than smooth.

What I've also found is when I mix the resin, if I use more of the opaque part, like a 55% 45% mix, it sets quicker, but can be more brittle. I can only assume that the other way round, using more of the clear part, would make it tougher once it's cured. I've cast some pieces without fillite, and not been able to break them without pliers - I think it must've been down to the mix I used.

I am thinking about using this stuff next time I buy resin. The 2 part I've been using is £30 for 1Kg, this is £20 for 5!! It's not 1:1 mix ratio, but for the cheaper price, I can cast 5 times more!

[Finn]

If you want a strong 40K feel, I'd suggest sculpting things like eagles, Marine chapter iconography, Mechanicum stuff, and skulls. Another touch people don't generally think of is some exterior lighting - I believe you can find an example of it on one of the GW kits for Cities of Death, and also on some Pegasus Models terrain kits (I bought Gothic Ruins and Gothic Building Small Set 2, both of which I love to death - you could look there as well for some inspiration if you like).

Thanks for the fillite link. We appear to use roughly the same stuff for casting except that I bought mine by volume (2 quarts) rather than by weight - about 2 kilos, if it has a weight similar to water... I think I got it for about $30 USD. Perhaps my bad luck with parts breaking has to do with the fact that the things I've cast have been long, thin, gargantuan creature talons. I'm going to have to google two-part mold making, but do you have any tips?

Looking forward to seeing more! If I can put in a "request", I'd like to see something that was shorter but with a larger footprint .

[leigh103]

Yeah, I've seen the Pegasus stuff, altho I wasn't too keen really. I do like the way they've managed to keep the gothic style, and not look anything like the GW stuff.

I did consider lighting actually, altho not sure why I didn't put any on. These are all great ideas - gonna have loads to be getting on with!

With the 2 part molds, I don't have much experience, but as the last lot failed, I can probs tell you what not to do...

- Don't use plasticine to sink your molds into, it's too sticky - use sculpey, it's much cleaner, the RTV doesn't stick to it, and it's still reusable afterwards

- make sure your model is perfect. I rushed it and didn't check things, which lead to lots of wasted silicone

- make sure you put oil, or think you can use release agent on the lower layer, before you pour the top layer. Again, I was rushing, and totally forgot this. I could seperate the moulds, but I had to cut them open, and the didn't fit back together properly

The actual casting wasn't too bad. Had some major seems (sp?) to cut off tho, but that was coz the molds didn't fit together properly. But the main thing was the actual model I moulded was bad. Next time I know I'll get it right tho - but I'm gonna take my time next time, and get it right. I'm also reviewing my master making process, by creating temp molds with the silicone putty and the styrene sheet, so I can make a resin master. This should be easier to make a 2 part mold, and should allow me to get the detail I want. The styrene sheet is good, but I'm finding it a bit limiting for fine details.

So I'll be making the majority of the window sections (the larger areas anyway) from styrene sheet, making a temp mold of it out of silicone putty, and casting it in unfilled resin. Then along with other temp molds, like I did for the pipes on the pics above, make the details to stick onto the base. Then I can start with the RTV.

As for the request - I'll keep that in mind. A wider base would make it easy to build larger buildings, so that's defo a possibility

[leigh103]

Apologies for the bump, but I just wanted to update this thread with some new stuff!! (if I need to start a new thread, just let me know)

Ok, first off a story...

A long time ago, in a Galaxy... well, it was this Galaxy... in this very thread, I made some moulds. And for a time, it was good. Somethings never change... but somethings do.

Ok, I'll stop with the movie references - but I did make some moulds of walls and things, cast them in resin and glued them altogether. I was fairly happy with the result, but I knew I could do better. Not having the cash to refund a reboot, I put it all away in my loft. Zoom forward a year or two, to a few months ago, and I put it all on eBay. Astounded by the winning bid (close to £200), I got talking to 2 of my very best mates, and we decided to do it again - but properly this time.

This time I have backing, and this time I have the skills required to create something better. So I've come here today to show you guys where I'm up to.

Starting from the beginning....

Making the masters:




Moulding:





And the first stage casts:


Interior shot, showing some of the filling I'm doing:


So what was wrong with the old ones?

Well, the moulds were all one part holds, so the rear side was flat, and normally oddly shaped by the poured resin. The casts themselves were fine, but I wasn't totally happy with a few little bits of detail, and the overall texture could've been better. I now have a foam cutter, enough foam to create a city, and some great friends who let me spend a lot of their cash buying materials. I've also improved my skills in 2 part moulds - so these pieces all have a front and back! And, I've basically got enough silicone to make enough moulds, to produce these in large quantities. Any money made from these will go funding more designs - and you never know where it could go.

But currently, I'm at the first casting stage. These pieces are now going to be refined, and moulds made from them. This means that in 1 casting, I can produce enough pieces for a small size kit. Previously, I had 1 mould for every piece - which made the casting very lengthy. So yeah, upto now, it's going quite well.

It might just end up being pocket money, but I'm having great fun doing it Please feel free to offer suggestions, or any feedback!

[Sean_OBrien]

You might consider using a clamshell mold instead of a 2 part mold on these. I find they are an excellent way of making molds large flat objects like these. Also, it tends to be easier IMO.

As opposed to setting your mold box up horizontally - set it up vertically. Stick the wall to something smooth and flat like a sheet of glass (I use a 1/4" tempered glass shelf). Build your mold box around the wall giving yourself a 1/2" or so on each side and extending about that far above the top of it (I build mine out of sheet acrylic/perspex/plexiglass - though legos should work fine). Make sure the box is stuck down to prevent shifting while you are pouring the mold. Pour the mold and use your preferred method of getting the bubbles out.

After the mold has cured, remove the mold box and carefully remove the glass from the bottom. Flip it over so you are looking at the bottom and cut along the center line of the wall with a sharp hobby knife/scalpel along one side. Work your way down, up and around and over the top till you get to the other side. It should open up fairly cleanly.

The hardest part with using that method on structures is working with the windows and doors. The normal way, you will need to cut the edge and the carefully peel back the mold and cut each section which has an opening. Fancy window openings make that a bit of a PITA. I have taken to using a very thin plastic film to cover the openings (the stuff I am using is 0.003" thick vinyl). When I cut open the molds, I just need to cut the edges. When I cast from it - because the film is so thin it really only shows up as a bit of flashing which I can clean up from the castings using an X-acto knife.

[leigh103]

That sounds interesting - I really don't like the dunking in plasticine method, but I've put up with it, and managed to make it work. I'm defo up for trying another method tho - specially seeing as this clamshell method would save time only having to wait for 1 cure.

Only issue is the windows, as you say - but I think I'll be able to work something out. The straight windows will probs be easier than the arches, but I think I'll defo try this.

Thanks very much!

[Sean_OBrien]

The film is actually pretty easy to deal with - and it is minimal clean up after the fact.

I showed the method to a friend who does a lot of similar castings and he had decided to use the heat shrink window insulation film. Puts it on as snug as he can get it, locks it in place with super glue and then uses a hair dryer to pull it taught. He normally just goes right over the various moldings and mullions because the material is so thin it doesn't really hid any detail (to put things in perspective - the thickness of a coat of primer is between 1.5 and 4 thousandths of an inch...while the plastic is 3 thousandths).

[Finn]

I use "clamshell"-like slits in several of my molds when I don't feel that cost of a piece justifies making a two part mold. The only difficulty that I have noticed is that I need to make sure that each part with a slit gets filled completely, which is actually really simple: just hold open the slit and make sure it's filled. Letting the natural shape of the rubber close the slit has gotten rid of any air bubbles for me as well.

The film is extremely thin - sometimes I haven't even needed an X-acto to cut it off.

[leigh103]

Slight update -

I've been further refining the casts, sanding and filling, so they all fit together a bit better now. Took some shots which show them off a little better




I'm thinking this will be the first 'kit' - seems a decent size for a smallish building. Next up is to recast the doorway (it's not good enough) and completely remake all the pillars. The detailing I put on the smaller pillars doesn't really work - it's not detailed enough when cast - but I did like the overall look, so I might come back to that. Remaking 2 large pillars and 6 thinner pillars will be easy enough with my foam cutter . I also have doors and balustrade to go along the roof, but I've not moulded them yet.

As for the moulding, I might stick to 2 part moulds for the window pieces, for now. But I'm gonna try the clamshell method on all the pillar pieces. If I can get used to it with them, I might try it with the more detailed pieces as well.

So - does this seem like a decent 'starter' kit? Would the inclusion of the broken pieces be annoying? My initial plan was to avoid the pattern replication with the GW COD kits - those broken sections just repeated all down both sides makes me vom.

Btw, this building is roughly 22cm long, 9cm wide and 20cm high. Each window piece is 10x6, and the pillars are 1cm and 1.5cm thick roughly.

[Sean_OBrien]

So - does this seem like a decent 'starter' kit? Would the inclusion of the broken pieces be annoying? My initial plan was to avoid the pattern replication with the GW COD kits - those broken sections just repeated all down both sides makes me vom.

Btw, this building is roughly 22cm long, 9cm wide and 20cm high. Each window piece is 10x6, and the pillars are 1cm and 1.5cm thick roughly.

A lot of that will sort of depend on what the customer is looking for. Some will say that that is plenty for a starter set, while others will probably disagree. Of course, the price point will come into play as well.

The way that I dealt with similar stuff in the past was to figure out what the finished building would look like (all walls, floors, stairs, doors and the roof). Once I had that figured out and designed - I would do the castings of the core items and the details separately (things like doors, interfaces, equipment and what not separate from the walls, floors and roof). Initial wall castings would be for the entire wall - not a damaged wall. Same for the rest of the stuff.

After that was done - depending on my needs, I might create a separate damaged mold...though more often then not I would simply modify the complete castings. This gave me extra stuff which I could use as the rubble around the buildings (when half the building is blown up...you should have a corresponding amount of rubble). To help make the rubble creation go a bit faster, I had a cheap cement mixer in the back of my shed that I would throw the off cuts in with a 6 foot length of logging chain. Couple rotations in that and then I scoop up the broken bits and use them to create the rubble piles around the buildings.

If I were to be doing production work AND I knew I would have the volume to justify the extra molds, I would probably go through and create a few open faced molds for the assembled rubble piles (to include the bases of the walls and what not). Little more work involved - but the end result would remove much of the labor and provided there was enough volume to go along with it...you would see the savings.

BTW - take a look at Gamecraft Miniatures - they do similar stuff with ruined/pristine buildings as well.

[Inquisitor Kallus]

I really like your designs. I think any details you make should be optional as it allows people to use them or not, even using something different altogether if they want to allowing your kit greater flexibility than say the COD set by GW. A lot of people (myslef included) wished they had also released the more generic designs which were fairly plain.

BTW what is going to be included in your kit and around what price will you be selling it at?

[leigh103]

BTW what is going to be included in your kit and around what price will you be selling it at?

Not totally sure yet. I think to start me off, the first kit will have the models shown above. I'm going to mould each piece, so 1 casting creates all the bits needed for a kit. The model in the pic is 20cm high, so even tho there's not loads of pieces, it's quite a large model. Whether this becomes a 'midway' or 'base' kit all depends on price.

I've not even started to think about price tho - once I've got the moulds I need to cast a few pieces at once, I can work out how much resin I need per cast. I also need to add on any more silicone I'll need, once these moulds expire and I have to create new ones. Plus there's my time sculpting, moulding and casting - it's all gotta be worth me doing it. I also have the GW COD kits in the back of my mind. Priced at £15 - it's crazy cheap for the amount of bits you get, and might not be something I can directly compete with, with this set. Might end up doing a less expensive set after this one, to be more competitive.

So yeah, I'm just concentrating on getting something workable, and the price can come later.