Want to start Warmachine/Hordes? Look Here! General Q&A Also!

[ICLRK625]

Vanilla Winterguard are much better than the Riflemen in my opinion (and most players). Winterguard can get high defense, and be fairly accurate and powerful when combined with outside buffs (namely Kovnik Joe), so they're a great unit with most casters.

[Keravin]

The Winter Guard normal and riflemen have different uses within the game. That's one of the points of the game - nothing on its own is better. Probably best moving the questions to your own topic rather than as part of this one.

[Vipus]

As Keravin said, the units have completely different uses. The WGI can be tooled to be a tarpit (with bob and weave from the UA + caster buffs like iron flesh), and with the rocket attatchments can be half decent at thinning out infantry. WGRC on the other hand with Kovnik Joe can reliably hit enemies with DEF 15 with a 14" range gun (DEF 17 if stood still), and from experience can tell you that it really messes up most infantry units.

[ghostmachine]

im after starting both games but im a little confused on what type the factions are
i like fast hit and run tactics or fast cc
the main question would be can all factions do either ?
i havnt played a game yet but i have watched a game betwwen khador and cryx
and it was explained to all who were interested
now i have been bitten by the bug as a simple fast flowing game

[basher]

fast factions

cryx for warmachine

circle for hordes

both fast but very fragile

but if your after close combat rocks khador or trolls

[Deadnight]

im after starting both games but im a little confused on what type the factions are
i like fast hit and run tactics or fast cc
the main question would be can all factions do either ?

being honest, you cant really typecast the factions as the *something* faction.

For example, cygnar are generally regarded as being *the* ranged faction, and khador being the beatstick faction, but yet khador have some amazing ranged builds that wreck face. Circle of Orboros are often seen as a light, glass cannon, guerrilla hit and run faction, but some builds, such as the baldur construct list, or lists based around regenerating warpwolves, skinwalkers and tharn are notoriously hard, and can match traditionally seen as "brick" factions for toughness.

you want fast, hit and run tactics, and fast cc?

Well, for a start, you've got warmachine's cryx, and hordes's circle of orboros (especially Kaya), and legion of everblight as your standard fast, hit and shred armies. Skorne also have certain builds (molik karnpedo) that are very fast and brutal in cc. that said, it also depends on the caster you take. For example, the traditonal "brick" faction, Khador have casters such as Strakhov and Vlad who are *blitzkrieg commanders* and are stupidly fast when they pop their feats and easily operate with this fast, hard hitting style that you seem to want. and there is the old witch, with her yo-yo abilities with her Scrapjack. then you've got magnus, with his *hit and run* feat which defines this very style of play. heck, you could probably play a fast, light, guerrila hit and run themed force with cygnar's caster Kraye (especially with his iron horse rules that he gives his warjacks)


SO, yes that style of play exists, and no, there is no one faction that is defined by it, or excels at it beyond what other factions do. and remember, this is warmachine. there are counters. there are *hard* counters.

[ghostmachine]

looking at what you wrote i do understand that every faction can do any role
i just dont want to go down the i like that figure i am just tring to get a good genral idea
of the type of force i like to field
1 is a hit and run
2 is a get in your face fast
if i can narrow the factions down a little i can start looking at the figures
i have been told to make 2 difrent lists
last question are the plastic battle groups a good place to start ?

[TheSanityAssassin]

Plastic battlegroups are generally a good place to start, but make sure you're going to use what is in them. For example, the Cygnar battlegroup has great models in it, but if you want to play Kraye, for example, you won't really use any of the stuff in there most of the time.

Kraye actually sounds like a good fit for you. We have a local who plays him quite well, and the best way to describe him is a "sudden shift of gears"

On your first couple turns you'll be sinking focus into Light Cav'd Hunters or possibly Chargers if you have the focus, casting perhaps Guided Fire, then on turn 3-ish you'll pop your feat, cast Full Throttle and ram a Hammersmith and Stormclad down the throat of the enemy and gut him.

A few of the Retribution casters can do similar things as well. For example Kaelyssa can circle and shoot with jacks and invictors/mhsf, then close and pop her feat, which gives stealth and keeps you from getting charged, then hammer into combat next turn. Vyros can also run jacks behind forests due to his Birds Eye ability which lets his battlegroup ignore them, shoot up some stuff, then cast Mobility to speed up the heavies and give them pathfinder to charge in.

Most factions can find a way to play a certain way if you look hard enough....Like Deadnight said, even though some factions lean one way or another, they aren't all set in stone.

[ghostmachine]

many thanks to everyone for the help
im going to have a read throu all faction books and have a go at lists from there
might even get a chance to test a couple if ive got time

[RTGamer]

Ok new Madrak model has me excited. Any Trolls players here know of what beasts go well with him? looking at 25pts to start off.

[ICLRK625]

Madrak likes a single Impaler (mostly for Far Strike) and a single Mauler (mostly for Rage). When you combine the two, Madrak has a very, very nasty Range 12 Power 18 attack, and is still capable of killing anything in melee (and everything all at once on his feat turn).

He works well with other melee beasts too of course, but he prefers infantry heavily, as they take advantage of Sure Foot and Carnage a bit more than a beast, but no reason you shouldn't use an Axer, since it comes in the box and gives Madrak and his battlegroup some extra threat range.

Bad news is that, like I said, Madrak likes infantry, and infantry for Trolls becomes very expensive very quickly. On the flip side, Trolls sport some of the best infantry in the game, made even better by the bucket loads of buffs Trolls have access to specifically for infantry (through both Warlocks and units/solos).

A good (but not cheap) starting point for pMadrak would be...

pMadrak (+6)
-Impaler (5)
-Mauler (9)
Trollkin Champions, Leader and 2 Grunts (6)
Kriel Warriors, Leader and 5 Grunts (4)
Krielstone, Leader and 3 Stone Scribes (3)
-Krielstone Elder (1)
Fell Caller (3)

TOTAL=31-6=25

This list is extremely expensive to field for 25 points honestly, and it's tough to reccommend it to anybody, but it'll do you good against new players and veterans alike (at least once you learn the game), and give you plenty of room to expand, since just about everything in the list is useful for most Troll casters (especially eMadrak, who you'll want to expand to once you learn the game).

[RTGamer]

Wow that is very expensive... $160 for all the models off the bat. But with 2 extra champions included. What are the infantry like to build?

I generally like to run Warmachine heavy... Who is the best beast caster from Trolls? Hoarluk?

[ICLRK625]

eDoomshaper is really the only caster that can run all Beasts. eDoomshaper is very fun to play, so he's a good starting point, and you can catch opponents off guard if they're not aware of what he can do (his feat can make the longest charges Trolls are capable of). The best part of eDoomshaper is that he's relatively cheap, all you need are 3 big Beasts to make a good 25 point list.

For example...

eDoomshaper (+6)
-Mulg the Ancient (12)
-Dire Troll Mauler (9)
-Earthborn Dire Troll (10)

TOTAL=31-6=25

This list will give you 2 of the best Beasts Trolls have for when you're ready to expand, and one of the coolest models Trolls have (Mulg), so it's definitely a good starting point. If you want to build that list to 35, all you'd have to do is get an Axer and 2 units (technically solos) of Whelps.

After Doomshaper, a good place to go would be Grim Angus, as he can use predominantly Beasts, but likes a bit of infantry as well (I only use Fennblades with him).

[AvatarForm]

Thanks for this thread Emerald.

As someone who has dabbled in this syustem for over 12months, even I took something away from your initial posts.

Great work!

[Rimmerman]

As someone who was seriously considering Warmachine, this thread has just sealed the deal. Next payday I'm getting the Khador starter set!

[Thanatos_elNyx]

My Khador Berserker makes a single melee attack against a Cygnar Hammersmith. The Berserker has a MAT of 5. I roll a 7 on 2d6 and add 5 to that, bringing my total to 13.

Does math work differently in the Iron Kingdoms

But seriously, I am a convert after this thread, Legion and Ret, here I come.

I hear Legion were the mutts nutts in Mk1 but got nerfed big time.
Are they still competitive?

[ICLRK625]

All Hordes factions except Circle were bad in the Mark 1 meta, Legion actually got better in Mark 2. They're very competitive, I'd say the second most competitive Hordes faction behind Trolls.

[FranticDaemon]

Some nasty tricks Legion had in MkI were removed or nerfed, but others were made much better and it got a bagful of new ones.

[Tapok]

There's something that's been bugging me about the point values for Warmahordes, and I've been to afraid of looking like a fool to ask, but how come the commonly spotted points lists are between 35 to 50, when in the rulebook I have for Hordes, single squads are between 50-90 points and Heavy Warbeasts are 100-120?

I had thought that Victory Points were used in calculation instead, but this could still give forces with (for example) Kruger and eight Woldwardens. I've never seen a PP army that big before! What am I missing?

[ICLRK625]

You have the Mark 1 Rulebook, Mark 2 changed the point values.