Want to start Warmachine/Hordes? Look Here! General Q&A Also!

[Gav2k]

I have some rule-based questions if this is the right place to put them? If not, let me know and I'll move to wherever the relevant place is. I have the Hordes quick-start rules (for some reason the Warmachine ones aren't working for me, but I'm primarilly interested in Hordes anyway), so my questions may actually be answered in the full rulebook. Hope you guys dont mind either way!

1) In the quick-start rules, when describing how Warlocks leach FURY from their Warbeasts, I'm unsure about the wording it uses. I don't have the rules on me, but they basically say that a Warlock can leach as much FURY as he wants, but cannot exceed his FURY stat.
Now, I'm assuming that the Intention is that he can only leach up-to his FURY stat's allowance, yes? But the wording suggests differently. I'll explain with an example:
Warlock has FURY stat of 5. All his warbeasts combined have 8 FURY. He leaches 8, but only keeps 5 of them, the remaining 3 are discarded.
Now, I'm assuming this is wrong, but the wording suggested this to me. Am I wrong?

2) Combat. Can units move freely, assuming they have no SPD restrictions in place? What I mean is, if my warbeast is in combat-range with an enemy model, and has been hitting/getting hit, can he just walk away from that combat in his next activation phase? I know that moving out of LOS and/or combat range gives the enemy a free shot at my warbeast if he tries this - but there's no restriction for him to just run off?

3) Speaking of this Free-Shot, there's only 1 free hit right? Which weapon does this hit use? Is it the player's choice?

4) Boxing. In the Ripper's description it has a special ability which describes a condition where if an enemy model is "boxed" by a group of Rippers, they can chow-down on this model and getting sort of "Killing-Blow". Is boxing basically surrounding an enemy so it cannot move in it's activation phase?

5) Warlocks. Can a Warlocks cast spells while in combat (or combat-range)?

6) Warlocks 2. Can warlocks move (not run), cast spells, attack, and use ranged attacks, all in the same activation? Is there a particular order this goes in?

7) Animus. Does activating an Animus add FURY onto a Warbeast or does it take away FURY from a Warlock? (or can the player choose?)

Thank you for your time and effort!

[40k The movie!]

1) In the quick-start rules, when describing how Warlocks leach FURY from their Warbeasts, I'm unsure about the wording it uses. I don't have the rules on me, but they basically say that a Warlock can leach as much FURY as he wants, but cannot exceed his FURY stat.
Now, I'm assuming that the Intention is that he can only leach up-to his FURY stat's allowance, yes? But the wording suggests differently. I'll explain with an example:
Warlock has FURY stat of 5. All his warbeasts combined have 8 FURY. He leaches 8, but only keeps 5 of them, the remaining 3 are discarded.
Now, I'm assuming this is wrong, but the wording suggested this to me. Am I wrong?

> Your Warlock can only leach up to his FURY stat - the remaining fury on the warbeast REMAINS. Thie is where the Frenzy test comes in: if a warbeast has fury remainng on it, it has to takea frenzy test which is a 2D6 roll. You add the remaining fury points and compare the result to the beast's THRESHOLD. If you get equal or under you're golden (but the warbeast STILL keeps the fury, so cannot be forced as many times this turn); but if you roll higher, the warbeast frenzies.

2) Combat. Can units move freely, assuming they have no SPD restrictions in place? What I mean is, if my warbeast is in combat-range with an enemy model, and has been hitting/getting hit, can he just walk away from that combat in his next activation phase? I know that moving out of LOS and/or combat range gives the enemy a free shot at my warbeast if he tries this - but there's no restriction for him to just run off?

>Absolutely! Unless there's a specific rule saying otherwise (e.g. the Gorgons Warjack's Force Lock ability), the only thing stopping you is the chance of being hit.

3) Speaking of this Free-Shot, there's only 1 free hit right? Which weapon does this hit use? Is it the player's choice?

>Yes, player's chioce

4) Boxing. In the Ripper's description it has a special ability which describes a condition where if an enemy model is "boxed" by a group of Rippers, they can chow-down on this model and getting sort of "Killing-Blow". Is boxing basically surrounding an enemy so it cannot move in it's activation phase?

>This is a weird one: A model is "boxed" when all of its hit boxes are marked. Once you have sorted out all the effects that triggerwhen that model is boxed (as in the example you gave), THEN it is "removed from play" (and any effects which trigger are dealt iwth then). The order of thigs is very important in this game, but luckily the rules are explicit!

5) Warlocks. Can a Warlocks cast spells while in combat (or combat-range)?

>Yes. He can cast offensive spells at the enemy he's engaged with at no penalty; he can cast them at other enemies in his LOS too, BUT if in the latter case the enemies are engaged/engaging (there's a subtle difference, but not for this rule), they get the +4 DEF bonus.

6) Warlocks 2. Can warlocks move (not run), cast spells, attack, and use ranged attacks, all in the same activation? Is there a particular order this goes in?

> Kinda sorta. They still follow the *movement - action* rule like everyone else (unless you're playing someone with BUSHWHACK - I believe Lyleth does in the Legion Warpack), and can only perforn melee attacks OR ranged attacks as their action aswell (unless they have VIRTUOSO). Spells though, are different. Tey can be cast before you move, after you move, before your action, in between attacks, or after your action. What you cannot do, however, is interupt either your movement or an attack to cast a spell. e.g you can't move 3", cast a spell, then complete your movement.

7) Animus. Does activating an Animus add FURY onto a Warbeast or does it take away FURY from a Warlock? (or can the player choose?)

>It depends who's casting it! If the warlock is casting it (and he can cast the animus of any warbeast in his CTRL; but if it's RNG is SELF he can only cast it upon himself), he spends FURY to cast it. A warbeast can cast its own animus by being FORCED i.e. gaining fury.


I hope that all helps! Cheers

[Gav2k]

Thanks! That's a huge help.
A quick question about Proxying - not if it's OK and all that, I'll be playing privatly amongst friends.

Using 40k/Fantasy models, I understand there's a couple of differences in terms of base-size, will this cause any major problems with the scale of the game?
Any suggestions for good proxies?
I mean:

Warlock - 28mm base?
Light Warbeast - 28mm?
Heavy - 40/50mm?
Units/Solos - 28mm?

Would this be ok, or is it going to mess up the rules?

[FranticDaemon]

There are 3 bases sizes in WM (well there's also huge (120mm) base size but only battle engines use it) - small (30mm), medium (40mm) and large (50mm) and they are not tied to specific model type (well, all light beast/jacks are on medium bases and all heavies are on large ones) so there are warcasters, warlock, units and solos on both small, medium and large bases.

[Gav2k]

There are 3 bases sizes in WM (well there's also huge (120mm) base size but only battle engines use it) - small (30mm), medium (40mm) and large (50mm) and they are not tied to specific model type (well, all light beast/jacks are on medium bases and all heavies are on large ones) so there are warcasters, warlock, units and solos on both small, medium and large bases.

Alright so... say I'm using the Everblight warpack - those little Rippers look like they're on 30mm (small) bases, is that correct? The warlock would go on a 30mm and the Carnivean(sp?) would go on a 50mm, right?

28mm warhammer models wouldn't throw the scale out the window that badly would it?

[Darwin_green]

well, the shredders are their own catagory, Lesser warbeast. so them being on small bases is fine.

the Legions light warbeasts are the Nephilim, the raeks and the teraphs.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/-HuNaJGmod0k/TT...4/IMG_7034.JPG
the one on the left is a light warbeast.

[40k The movie!]

The bases are really pretty importnst in serious play, but for the purposes of demo-ing with your mates etc. I reckon it ought to be ok!

Warmahordes is a GREAT game for proxying IMO, because there's none of this True Line Of Sight nonsense; it's all *based* off the different base sizes. If you want to try out a new heavy 'jack, all you need is it's stat-card (and you get a whole bunch in the 2010 Faction decks), and either another model on the same sized base OR EVEN JUST A BARE 50mm BASE!

You can buy these pretty cheaply (but unlike Warhammer boxed sets, I've never bought a PP box that came with spares), BUUUUT you could also print off these:

http://www.box.net/shared/tlmbhtztzj

glue them to an empty Cornflakes packet and cut them out. You could even write the names of the respective beasties on them in felt-tip.

Have fun!

[Gav2k]

Awesome replies, guys! Thanks!

Ive come up with another question, but it's kind of expanding on my previous question about unencumbered movement. When in combat-range of an enemy model, assuming my model has enough SPD, can i just waltz around this enemy model to his back and get the bonuses for attacking from the rear?

[Picklechu]

No,

Firstly, if you advance out of melee with the enemy you are engaged with (by leaving his front arc) he will get a free strike at you.

Secondly, you only get the back strike bonus if you started that model's activation fully in the rear arc of the enemy model.

[Thanatos_elNyx]

well, the shredders are their own catagory, Lesser warbeast. so them being on small bases is fine.

the Legions light warbeasts are the Nephilim, the raeks and the teraphs.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/-HuNaJGmod0k/TT...4/IMG_7034.JPG
the one on the left is a light warbeast.

That beasty on the left is so cute.
One of the main reasons I chose Legion to start with.

[Gav2k]

No,

Firstly, if you advance out of melee with the enemy you are engaged with (by leaving his front arc) he will get a free strike at you.

Secondly, you only get the back strike bonus if you started that model's activation fully in the rear arc of the enemy model.

Riiight i see, cool. So it wouldn't give any advantage, but there isnt really anything stopping me from doing it?

Haha, yeah Thanatos, thats one of the models pulling me closer to Legion and pulling me away from Menoth.

[Falkman]

I got a question regarding critical hits.

Am I correct in assuming that rolling a critical hit doesn't do anything by itself, a model must have a critical effect rule to take advantage of the critical hit?
Say for example my Griffon makes a critical hit, nothing extra would happen, no additional damage dice or anything? But if my Phoenix makes a critical hit with its' Halo cannon it would apply the Fire continuous effect, since the Halo cannon has the rule 'Critical Fire'.

Have I understood the critical hit rules correctly?

[Voss]

I got a question regarding critical hits.

Am I correct in assuming that rolling a critical hit doesn't do anything by itself, a model must have a critical effect rule to take advantage of the critical hit?
Say for example my Griffon makes a critical hit, nothing extra would happen, no additional damage dice or anything? But if my Phoenix makes a critical hit with its' Halo cannon it would apply the Fire continuous effect, since the Halo cannon has the rule 'Critical Fire'.

Have I understood the critical hit rules correctly?

This is correct. Criticals only matter if you have a critical effect on a weapon in question.

[Dragonreaver]

I've been trying to ignore 'Warmahordes' for quite a while (not in a nasty way, I just have too much other stuff going on!) but alas, I caved in and read the info on the website. I've read the excellent opening post in this thread, which was very informative. However, I have some questions (most were probably answered in this thread tbf, sorry!).

1, Has the new edition of Hordes been released yet?

2, What would you say were the most popular factions, generally?

My favourites so far, based on first-glances, would have to be Cryx and/or Legion of Everblight. What can I say? I guess I'm just evil at heart.

However, I'd hate to start the game with one of those armies, only to find they're the Warmachine equivalent of Space Marines and everyone else has them too! I also quite like the idea of the Protectorate of Menoth, they seem pretty cool and don't seem quite as evil.

3, If I understand it right, you basically have three types of unit: Your Warcaster (who's sort of a Techpriest, right?), your Warjacks or equivalent (kinda like Servitors, controlled by the Warcaster), then you have basic 'human' units who aren't Warjacks and aren't controlled by the Warcaster directly, but serve in his army. Is this last unit type fairly weak compared to the others, since the Warcaster doesn't control them?

[Keravin]

Hordes Mark II came out last year.

The most popular factions very much change based on your individual area. For the UK Masters the most taken factions were Khador and Trollbloods respectively.

There's also now war engines and replace warcaster and warjack with Warlock and Warbeast for Hordes. Units play their own role. They aren't generally weak and some people swear by infantry focused armies.

[Falkman]

2, What would you say were the most popular factions, generally?

My favourites so far, based on first-glances, would have to be Cryx and/or Legion of Everblight. What can I say? I guess I'm just evil at heart.

In Sweden where I live, Khador and Cryx are the most played on the tournament scene at least.

3, If I understand it right, you basically have three types of unit: Your Warcaster (who's sort of a Techpriest, right?), your Warjacks or equivalent (kinda like Servitors, controlled by the Warcaster), then you have basic 'human' units who aren't Warjacks and aren't controlled by the Warcaster directly, but serve in his army. Is this last unit type fairly weak compared to the others, since the Warcaster doesn't control them?

There are solos as well, but they're basically just units of one model.

[Dragonreaver]

Thanks... sounds good, might have to pop in to my LGS and see if I can get a demo game, or at least watch a few games.

New question, how do points work in WM/H? I've noticed that the points totals are a lot less than I'm used to with Warhammer. What are common points totals? Roughly how many points would a Warcaster and Warjack cost? Obviously that's going to vary depending on how good they are, I'm just trying to get a rough idea of game size...

[Deadnight]

Thanks... sounds good, might have to pop in to my LGS and see if I can get a demo game, or at least watch a few games.

New question, how do points work in WM/H? I've noticed that the points totals are a lot less than I'm used to with Warhammer. What are common points totals? Roughly how many points would a Warcaster and Warjack cost? Obviously that's going to vary depending on how good they are, I'm just trying to get a rough idea of game size...

(1) points sizes are different to 40k. in 40k, you're probably used to 1000,1500, and 2000pt games. here, your battlebox games are 11pts, and games range from 15pts, 25pts (rough euivelant to 1000pts), 35pts (rough equivelant to 1500pts) and 50pts (rough equivelant to 2000pts) you can go higher, to 75, 100, 200 etc if you really want to, but then a game will take up all of your weekend!

(2) warcasters and warlocks dont cost points. they're essentially "free". What they do though is bring extra "warjack points", or "warbeast" points to the table. its on their cards. typically its +5, or +6. What that means is you have those "extra" points from your warcaster that you can spend *just* on warjacks, in addition to your agreed points total. Say, you take Stryker (who has +6warjack points) and you agree to a 35pt game. with stryker, you get an extra 6pts that you can field, but you can only spend that extra 6pts on warjacks.

(3) warjacks cost (roughly) anything from 4-6 for a light warjack, and 7-13 for a heavy warjack. 8, or 9 would probably be the overall average. units generally cost 4/6 (first number is for a 6man squad, second for a 10man squad), 5/8, 6/10, or 7/11, with 5/8 being the average. unit attachments typically cost 2pts, and solos range from 2-4pts.

[Falkman]

Thanks... sounds good, might have to pop in to my LGS and see if I can get a demo game, or at least watch a few games.

New question, how do points work in WM/H? I've noticed that the points totals are a lot less than I'm used to with Warhammer. What are common points totals? Roughly how many points would a Warcaster and Warjack cost? Obviously that's going to vary depending on how good they are, I'm just trying to get a rough idea of game size...

From what I've gathered the standard size in tournaments at least are 35 points, so if nothing else this is a good point to build towards if you want a normal-sized army.
I've been playing a couple of Battlebox games down at my club (caster + 2-3 jacks) and they're a quick and fun way to learn the game, but I definitely feel that I want to add some units and solos to have a more well-rounded force.

Since we've all just started in my club, we're very much in the building phase of the game still, so most of us are building towards 25 pts first so we can play some games, and then keep building towards 35 pts for full-sized games.

[Dragonreaver]

Thanks, good to know... Will definitely look at picking up the book and a small starter force over the coming week.

Edit: Boo, hiss, my LGS doesn't stock Warmachine