Tactica: 8th Edition Lizardmen

[Jetty Smurf]

But still... it's like strapping a shield onto a tank. Sure it's better but is it better enough to be worth the effort?

I too would rather spend the points somewhere else.

I have not used it yet, but I can definitely see the reasoning behind it. If anyone else is like me, the tendancy to run the slann/tg unit as the centre of the army means the boost is given to the majority of the army. That, in my mind, makes the standard a good choice considering its only 15 pts.

[Malorian]

I have not used it yet, but I can definitely see the reasoning behind it. If anyone else is like me, the tendancy to run the slann/tg unit as the centre of the army means the boost is given to the majority of the army. That, in my mind, makes the standard a good choice considering its only 15 pts.

Maybe if he was a goblin... but when he is already giving units a coldblooded Ld 9, rerollable in most cases since he certainly is a bsb... I just can't see it being worth it in the long run as opposed to banehead or a magical weapon for a hero.

[Alltaken]

As far as it goes Lore of Life is the lore of my love.

With it you can pull 2 spells a turn. That +2T and 5+ WS are marvellous for both sauri and kroxs. If you can get vines also it's game, set, match: no one touches those untis. add regrowth every now and then and lets see who can take your units down.

I like Kroxs, I really do now. M6 makes them hell of a flanker unit. And by 2250 up you can get a pretty pimped solo Slann going lore of life to avoid eating up your TG which is nigh invulnerable to warmachines, most flyers, and fast cavalry.

I believe they add a nice flank and punch to the army

[Dead Man Walking]

Yestrday I used a unit of 15 skinks mostly in a wood with throne of vines+toughness4 and held down a unit of VC blood knights. They were swung out to the side of the table to hit my flanks so I made sure the skinks were in a congo line so he could only contact with one skink and since they were mostly in a wood they were stubborn.

+4 toughness is good on anything, toughness 6 skinks that are stubborn in a wood doing the congo line? MMMMm yes please.

[Malorian]

Foolish bloodknights...


Nice trick

[Sandals]

Maybe if he was a goblin... but when he is already giving units a coldblooded Ld 9, rerollable in most cases since he certainly is a bsb... I just can't see it being worth it in the long run as opposed to banehead or a magical weapon for a hero.

i have a couple of issues with this statement.
having a slann as a bsb is by no means certain these days. with the chance for him to vanish from the table on a miscast (however unlikely), or - as i can see it the big problem - auto death from a failed test. I tend to put a saurus bsb in my list and run him in the same unit. still ld9 stubborn with a reroll, but a little more survivable.

second issue is with taking Bane Head. I used to love this, and if i was taking anything but Life i would have it again, but with Life the only real thing you are going to use against characters is Dwellers, and that doesn't need Bane Head to kill them!

minor things, but possibly worth thinking about.

[Malorian]

The odds of that saurus bsb being assassinated is MUCH higher than the chance of the slann (especially with cupped hands) going pop from a miscast, and at any rate such an event means you lose anyway in most cases.

And bane head wasn't for the slann, if was for the character hunting hero.

[gork or maybe mork]

Seeing as the bane head is less useful with life, what enchanted items are you using instead (if any). I've been using the ironcurse icon for a while and it's quite nice. It's only five pts, so if it saves just one temple guard it gets its points back fivefold. Other than that, there aren't any others that jump out at me (i'm trying to keep my slaan below 500 pts (accursed vampire counts expensive lord syndrome)).

[ewar]

I'm currently running charmed shield on my TG champ, but I might switch it to ironcurse icon. The theory being that when using the charmed shield he can limit the overkill by discounting on of a lords 4 attacks on a 2+.

Will try both and see.

As for the BSB on a slann or scar vet - I don't personally see the benefit of running a saurus BSB just on the off chance the slann dies. I think generally if the TG and slann are dead, then you're fairly far up sh1t creek already.

Personally I'd think the points were better spent on more troops (chameleons/terradons/whatever), but to each their own.

I did read in another thread a truly amazing combo though - banehead slann with feedback scroll. Ouch. Against most level 4s, you'd be able to take them out in their first or second magic phase.

Fun for tournament play but I think my long terms gaming pals would tire of it pretty damn quickly. Especially the VC player...

[Dumbledore]

But still... it's like strapping a shield onto a tank. Sure it's better but is it better enough to be worth the effort?

+1 Ld is a massive bonus for any army, but even more so for Lizardmen due to the probability distribution of Cold Blooded.

Roll needed to pass/Cold Blood with re-roll/Normal with re-roll
10 - 99.9% - 99.3%
9 - 99.7% - 97.2%
8 - 98.9% - 92.3%
7 - 96.2% - 82.6%
6 - 89.8% - 66.0%
5 - 77.3% - 47.5%
4 - 58.6% - 30.6%
3 - 35.9% - 16.0%
2 - 14.3% - 5.5%

As you can see, if your Saurus block loses by 6CR, +1Ld on your Slann increases your chances of holding by a whopping 22.7%. It is when you lose by a fairly big amount that the +1Ld really kicks in.

It is also worth bearing in mind that the cases where you lose by 4-7CR are usually the combats that your enemy are really planning on and needing to win. +1Ld matters the most in the cases where it is needed the most. It means that your Saurus/Krox/Skinks/Salamanders/whatever need to be beaten by 7CR to be over 50% likely to flee, as opposed to 6CR.

CR loss/Chance of holding gained by +1Ld with re-roll
0 - +0.2% (for psychology tests)
1 - +0.8%
2 - +2.7%
3 - +6.4%
4 - +12.5%
5 - +18.7%
6 - +22.8%
7 - +21.6%
8+ - 0%

For so few points it is an absolute bargain - it makes those tough breaks even tougher and can add some really unexpected tenacity to some already very hard to shift units. Most times that I've had units break (especially important ones like Cold Ones or Saurus - including in 7th ed), they have broken on close calls - more often than not they would have really screwed my foe if my unit had held on.

[Dead Man Walking]

I think if your infantry blocks are going to hang back and let your skinks/sallies/terradons/kroxigors deal with stuff downwind then you might as well make the slaan a BSB because chances are if your templeguard run your going to loose everything in the unit off the end of the table anyways.

However if you have to march into the middle of the table or into your opponents end to win then the chance of getting hit from behind or your guard surviving running away become exponentially greater and it may be worthwhile to have your BSB somewhere else.

[Vsurma]

Maybe if he was a goblin... but when he is already giving units a coldblooded Ld 9, rerollable in most cases since he certainly is a bsb... I just can't see it being worth it in the long run as opposed to banehead or a magical weapon for a hero.

You use the term "worth it" Imo for a 15pts item to be worth it it has to save about 15pts worth per game, so about 1 saurus warrior, or 2 skinks. Now if it saves 1 unit of saurus from running once every 10 games, that makes it worth it, I believe it will do so more often than that so yea, worth it.

Skrox units for example can lose by a fair bit, saurus too if the enemy decides what charges what, losing by 6 for example would give saurus ld3 with reroll, little chance of making that, ld4 with reroll is a lot better already.

Imo the choice to NOT take it comes not from needing the 15pts (drop a saurus and a skink) but from needed the "banner slot" if you want 2 banners in your TG/Slann unit, say huanchi and +1 speed, or armour piercing and flaming... etc you are out of the banner slot for banner of dicipline.

For its 15pts cost it is definately worth it. It barely has to do anything for it to be worth it due to its extremely low cost.

[Vsurma]

i have a couple of issues with this statement.
having a slann as a bsb is by no means certain these days. with the chance for him to vanish from the table on a miscast (however unlikely), or - as i can see it the big problem - auto death from a failed test. I tend to put a saurus bsb in my list and run him in the same unit. still ld9 stubborn with a reroll, but a little more survivable.

second issue is with taking Bane Head. I used to love this, and if i was taking anything but Life i would have it again, but with Life the only real thing you are going to use against characters is Dwellers, and that doesn't need Bane Head to kill them!

minor things, but possibly worth thinking about.

Also works with feedback scroll or cupped hands to nuke enemy mages.

If you use the bane with cupped hands on a 2 wound mage it is fairly likely to die. Feedback combined with bane might even kill a lv4.

[brendino]

obviously I have not read through this entire thread, so its entirely possible that someone has already asked/commented on this, but does anyone have any experience using an ethereal slann OUTSIDE of a temple guard unit (just hanging out by himself, maybe in some magic woods or something). Hes ethereal, so you dont have to worry about war machine or bowmen etc, hes got 4+ ward save, high toughness and wounds so I'm not too worried about magic missles, and if he does miscast despite throne of vines/ cupped hands, hes much less likely to blow up some expensive temple guard. the only thing that really scares me are statistic tests (dwellers below, penumbral pendulum etc).
I would really like to base a lizardmen army around this slaan simply because nobody does, and I would like to have a completely different army for once, and thus was wondering if anyone else has done this, and are there any magic items that allow you to pass characteristic tests easier in the BRB? (im waiting for my IoB set to get the rulebook, so I cant check myself)

[WarmbloodedLizard]

+1 Ld is a massive bonus for any army
[...]
For so few points it is an absolute bargain
[...]

I agree that it is a good item but I wouldn't call it an "absolute bargain". it is pretty appropriately priced (maybe 5 points or so too cheap but that doesn't really matter).

[diggerydoom]

So far lady luck has made that standard a bargin for me-saving my temple guard and slann from breaking (an 11 followed by a 10) and preventing a block of saurus with scar vet running in another game.

As for the ethereal slann- I have not used him yet. I have a 3500 point game planned with two slann one ethereal with death and one in temple guard with life.

I thiink the idea has potential if you do not want him tied into a unit-I would be tempted to give him the flying carpet however for that extra move.

[brendino]

ok, flying carpet sounds good, can you tell me how many points it is????

thanks.

[freddieyu]

ok, flying carpet sounds good, can you tell me how many points it is????

thanks.

It's an enchanted item with the same points cost as the stegadon war spear...

[Screamer]

What do you think of this 2250 pts list?

275 Slann w lore of life, focused rumination (+1PD)
275 Slann w lore of light, focused rumination (+1PD)

118 Saurus Scar-vet Shield, light armour, BSB

569 49 Saurus w full command

558 48 Saurus w full command

225 3 Salamanders

225 3 Salamanders


Life for survival buff, and light for the initiative bonus. And the saurus instead of TG because they are cheaper, and needed to fill the 25% core.
Quite easily outflanked if i'm not careful, but saurus w always strike first, or I 10 (depending on spell) could be quite brutal, especially with the horde rule, giving 40 S4 attacks.

Variation: Spears? Need to remove 4 saurus from each unit. +1 Ld-banner? remove 1 saurus for Ld 10 in that unit. Or give BSB Stubborn for 35 pts?
The Scar-vet is needed to carry the banner, theres not enough lord-points left

[gork or maybe mork]

Where are your slaan going to go? If they're in the saurus you'll be mugged in combat, and if they;re outside, they're easy(ish) pickings due to the lack of good mobility and etherealness. Also, without the full lore of life, you won't get the full benefit as you run the risk of not getting the key spells (imo: throne, stoneskin, and dwellers).

I think that the second slaan is superfluous. You probably won;t have enough power dice to get the most use out of either of them, and if you drop one, you'll be able to make the other more effective, and have points to spend on chameleon skinks and extra handlers on the salamanders.

I think that one of the saurus units should be dropped for a temple guard unit to bunker the remainining slaan in (probably the life one), and use the excess points to give the life slaan focus of mystery, the discipline that makes opposing mages drop sixes, and the cupped hands (Shrink the other saurus block if you're short on points).

Lastly, the battle standard is a bit vulnerable on the scar vet, and it might be better to give it to a slaan and give the scar vet some form of magical weapon.