Tactica: High Elves in 8th edition

[Danny76]

My friend and I were thinking of getting the island of blood starter and I was looking at the high elves.
But I was wondering if the stuff in the box is any use in game? I've heard that people mostly wouldn't use what's in there.
Is there any use in the stuff or would it be better to drop most of the stuff when expanding my HE army from this start

[ColShaw]

I've always liked Swordmasters, use them, and will continue to do so. Combining the IoB with what I've already got allows me to take 2 7x2 units of Swordmasters. And Seaguard are a lot better this edition than last. The Griffon and the Reavers? Less useful than some things on tabletop, but oh so pretty!

[Gmaleron]

Hello everyone. Sorry to kind of hijack this thread a little but i will be playing against a khorne themed warriors of chaos army this upcoming week at my game store and i need some help as ive only ever faced nurgle before. This is what im pretty sure he will be running:

-Lots of Chaos warriors i believe with Halberds
-Big nasty group of chaos knights
-"captured" empire wizards i believe with lore of fire

Other then that i cant think really of anything else special he may be running. However to face him i have the following with my nagarythe themed high elf army.

-Archmage with book of Hoeth
-Alith Anar
-Horde unit of Lothern Sea Guard w/ Razor Banner or World Dragon bsb
-x2 units of 21 swordmasters
-x1 unit of 21 white lions w/ banner of sorcery
-x10 shadow warriors
-Maybe some bolt Throwers

And other then that the rest is up in the air. Thinking about using shadow warriors with alith anar to get on his flank and shoot his knights (rank shot hopefully) while the rest of my army hangs back shooting as best it can.

[Inquis. Jaeger]

Lore of Metal will be your friend. Hordes will work well against his lack of warmachines and bolt throwers are always tasty against elite high-AS enemies. I would say that the razor banner would be a better bet than BWD, given the difference in cost (especially as a BSB will be required to take BWD in a unit of LSG). Swordmasters will work well, especially if you buff them with Life or debuff his warriors with Shadow. Mindrazor would be amazing against his ranked infantry (strength 8 ASF with -5 armour save!)

[YoungKing]

I can't decide whether or not to get the IoB myself.

The problems are, I probably won't use the Reavers, Sea Guard, or Griffon Lord, and even if I used the Sea Guard, it wouldn't be my cup of tea to use those models and fill the rest out with spearmen models.

With the money I'd use to get the IoB I can basically get 20 PG and 10 WL(for a bit extra) or DP, so I will probably just wait.

Now, if I could split the box with someone I definitely would.

On tactics, I still haven't come up with a decent way to play a mounted mage/archmage on a horse. The Forlaith's, Saphery, and whatever seems like the best bet, but then I'm not able to take BoH if I wanted to, and a Mage on a horse doesn't seem like a good idea at all unless there's no other shooting.

Also, is the Book of Hoeth that good?

[CmdrLaw]

Book of Hoeth depends largely on what you want to do with your Magic, if your relying on 1 or 2 spells to win you the game then Hoeth is definately the way forward, but you won't be casting anything else as all the dispel dice will be left over (not exactly going to use them on IF cast's)

But the Robe and another item (I favour the Annulian crystal) will keep your mage alive pretty much indefinately and have alot more magical dominance and will able to do alot more.

[YoungKing]

Book of Hoeth depends largely on what you want to do with your Magic, if your relying on 1 or 2 spells to win you the game then Hoeth is definately the way forward, but you won't be casting anything else as all the dispel dice will be left over (not exactly going to use them on IF cast's)

But the Robe and another item (I favour the Annulian crystal) will keep your mage alive pretty much indefinately and have alot more magical dominance and will able to do alot more.

Yeah, I'm going for more options and flexibility so I think I will forgo the BoH unless I know for sure I'm going to need it to blast someone.

I'd love to fit the Annulian Crystal into my list, but I have my Archmage with Forlaith's, Saphery, and the Silver Wand, so my question to you is whether or not having the Annulian outweighs the SW and ToS? I'm assuming with the Banner of Sorcery it is an awesome piece of gear to have(basically +1 PD and DD).

I originally wanted to get an Annulian Crystal, Jewel of Dusk, and BoS into my list so I was thinking of taking three mages(Archmage, lvl 2, and lvl 1) but it didn't seem worth it and I'm not sure on a lvl 2 that the AC is better than the Seerstaff.

[puckus10]

On tactics, I still haven't come up with a decent way to play a mounted mage/archmage on a horse.

Also, is the Book of Hoeth that good?

A way to use a mage on a horse i take a seerstaff and take shadow so you can use steed of shadows. Then you can move 18 inches, do your thing, and fly 20 inches back out of harms way. I do it all the time and my lvl4 has never got killed.

[Danny76]

I can't decide whether or not to get the IoB myself.

The problems are, I probably won't use the Reavers, Sea Guard, or Griffon Lord, and even if I used the Sea Guard, it wouldn't be my cup of tea to use those models and fill the rest out with spearmen models.

With the money I'd use to get the IoB I can basically get 20 PG and 10 WL(for a bit extra) or DP, so I will probably just wait.

Now, if I could split the box with someone I definitely would.

On tactics, I still haven't come up with a decent way to play a mounted mage/archmage on a horse. The Forlaith's, Saphery, and whatever seems like the best bet, but then I'm not able to take BoH if I wanted to, and a Mage on a horse doesn't seem like a good idea at all unless there's no other shooting.

Also, is the Book of Hoeth that good?

From what i gather noone uses The Lord on Griffon as its not great in game.
or particularly ellyrians either.
so is the box not worth getting if its only for the high elves?

[wilsongrahams]

A Griffon is still a worthy mount, just not as good as a Dragon for just a few points less. Still, it's worth it's points compared to other monstrous mounts due to Stomping etc and that a Dragon's flame attack is now single use per game.

Ellyrian Reavers are mostly unused in armies because the models were poor and expensive, but they do have a use as Fast Cavalry but you have to protect them. Running a low level mage with them helps here.

[Danny76]

well i would have that in the box.
what about the sea guard and swordmasters, are they anygood?

[Tarian]

Sea Guard are a very solid core choice, the Jack of All Trades, Master of None for our Core, whereas Swordmasters are complete Glass Hammers. Some people hate 'em, I personally like 'em a lot. (Especially since my unit champ dropped Malus Darkblade with the Talisman of Loec!)

[wilsongrahams]

I haven't used Sea Guard much yet, but if you use them defensively they are great - instead of having some archers and some spearmen to hold a flank you can just have the one unit and save on the total cost for just a few points more than the archers would cost anyway. Every time my archers get charged they always break and die cos they just can't defend themselves, and this is where Sea Guard will be most useful. If you're facing a static enemy such as a dwarf gunline then you're probably best leaving them for the two seperate units.

As for Swordmasters, I love them. I have a unit of 20 with my BSB and a unit of 24 both in 3 ranks, 7 and 8 wide respectively. They can lose a whole rank before they lose their effectiveness and the number of attacks they give back make up for their shortfalling against the White Lions strength against regular troops. They will chop through weaker units by the dozen - but you have to get them into combat. White Lions and Phoenix Guard can kinda protect themselves from missile fire and weather it but you will want Lore of Heavens on a Mage or some other missile defense for them. In every 8th ed game I've played so far I've used at least one of my Swordmaster units, and they have destroyed two or three opposing units each game - admittedly often by breaking and catching them. I have been fortunate to be able to avoid any serious Stone Thrower incidents with them so far too. I tend to give my Swordmaster Champ a nice charm to give the unit Magical Attacks as they are a unit opponents try to tie up with ethereal creatures etc.

[Desert Rain]

Swordmasters are, and have always been, my favourite unit in the army. They hit harder than just about everything and with the ToL a Bladelord can reliably kill most hero level characters. However, as others have pointed out they are very fragile and die in droves if (when)the enemy strikes back. I think that they work best on a flank where they are likely to find units that they can destroy (either through kills or running them down) in one turn. The banner that gives them +1 M is pretty good as it makes than able to reach combat a bit faster.

[scarvet]

I cant decide on IoB because of all the things Empire can do; I simply lost my faith in this edition......

[CmdrLaw]

I'm considering using SM's in units of 6, no more and no command...well maybe a champion. For pure killing power, hopefully they will get ignored by most things as it's only 6 models, and if anything does go after them. Then it's a good diverison.

But if you manage to hit an enemy block with 2 units of 6 you can have 26 WS6 STR 5 attacks re-rolling misses...26!

[Deadite]

I cant decide on IoB because of all the things Empire can do; I simply lost my faith in this edition......

You're not alone in this. I played Undead and Lizards in 5th edition, took time off to play a LOT of 40k and when I came back to 8th edition I found a lot of my old armies were absolutely useless. My hordes of skellies and zombies were relegated to the display shelf and I just don't like the way the new VC play (I HATE GHOULS!). My Lizards, so out-of-date and comparably uglier than the newer models that they're sitting in a box, waiting attention.

I've always admired High Elves, even started a Warmaster army of High Elves. The newer models that have come out and the IoB box helped me finally bite the bullet and start an Army.
Now, of course, I'm reading about other armies I had a passing interest in, reading what they can do and really second guessing what I want to do in this edition of Fantasy. And I haven't even thrown my first dice in this edition yet.
I keep checking this thread, hoping I could find something a little more stable than just taking Teclis in every army. I'm not looking for an "I win" button, but maybe something that seems like a good "all-rounder" would be nice.

[scarvet]

Less competitive due to change in edition is something I can deal with. Rules skewed to one army is not. Empire is the only army that can take all the advantage of the new army structure with little to none disadvantage.

Yes I feel sad about my Tiranoc army have less Tiranoc chariot and chariot, but at least I can get some fast cav in my army as well.

As much as I like the fluff feel of SW, all they have done is banning houses/watchtower at my local gaming group.

[Francis]

Well, competitiveness isn't all in this game as far as I am concerned. I have just started expanding my already sizeable HE force, and the army I will be using from here on is close to the HE equvilant of a 40K inquisition force.

Led by a BladePrince (standard loadout) and a Archmage (Either BoH or Book of Ashur and Talisman of Endurance) , with a Sea Gaurd core a lot of Swordmasters, Sea Rangers (Shadow warriors), and Shore Reavers (Ellyrian Reavers). Might toss in a couple of repeaters when I feel like it, and the Prince will be mounted on a griffon from time to time (converted IoB Griffon).

Not a particularly strong list in theory but I can't wait to test it out. Any of you guys got ideas for tactics?

[Danny76]

So would would be a goo dway to expand on a list that starts with a base of:

Prince on Griffon
Lvl 2 Mage
10 Lothern Sea Guard
10 Sword masters
5 Ellyrian Reavers.

What would the next purchases be after that box, to ensure that using all the models in the box is a good idea?
I'd rather not buy all those and only use some..