I think Doomflayers supporting big units will become a more common choice. Impact hits are still great. I dont think PCB will become useless, just used for another role. Screening units against cavalry are my first choice, you can make some damage too. Vermin lord will be a must against some armies. Tough, good initiative and with the added impact hits it becomes even greater. WeŽll have to wait for the rules, although some are stated as true, some will change.
But the Doomflayer only gets D3 S3 impact hits. After that its getting its attack at its iniative of 3. With a toughness of 3, and only 1 wound I don't see them living long enough to dish out their damage. Poisonwind mortars become a much much better chioce from what we are hearing of 8th ed so far.
Actually the Doom-Flayer was FAQed to have S4 Impact hits, as per the strength of the machine. I agree its lost some of its clout, but effectively all that's happened is it's been downgraded from 'Awesome' to just 'Good'. Not much of a problem.
I will definitely be keeping them in my army, although I may admittedly be squeezing and extra poison mortar in.
It's in the errata about the plague censor bearers so the rank bonus wont be included in it.Originally Posted by Memnos
The gibbering horde of rat-men is mightier than the pen...
Keep in mind a few things:
Flails are not great weapons so PCBs will strike at Initiative. Which means they aren't as good as before but they're still viable.
The latest rumor (I can hardly wait for the book to come out) states you can use the general's LD for stubborn. So large blocks of slaves are even better now. Stormvermin are actually better too with Initiative 4, they will go before many troops.
The OBJECT of the game is to win. The POINT of the game is to have FUN! Never confuse the two.
I vote zoolander for president!
Stubborn Leadership. To quote - Strength in numbers
"All units in the Skaven army add their current rank bonus to their Leadership value for any Leadership-based test. To calculate the Leadership of a unit with the Strength in Numbers rule, first determin the units leadership as normal and then add the rank bonus of the unit to this value, up to a maximum of 10"
My reading of this is that its not a bonus, its how you calculate the units leadership value, therefore Stubbourn Units of clan rats would use their full unmodified leadership which with 3 ranks is 8 not 5 as on their stat line. But I suppose its your definition of Bonus, its not for example an item giving you +1 LD, its a rule on calculating their LD.
Thoughts?
It may well be its been deliberatly written that it is no longer a "bonus" but a "Method of Calculation" to take the Stubbourn rule into account.... thoughts?
Hopefully it will be referred to explicitly in the rbrb stubborn rule, and also in the skaven faq. It seems a bit ambiguous for my liking at the moment.
Looking at the skaven units, I'd say stormvermin and clanrats are the big winners, which people have mentioned already.
With 2 ranks shooting, slings could become worth a look.
Rat Ogres also look very useful. A unit of 6 isn't prohibitively expensive.
Otoh, PCBs will lose a lot of models facing any army with higher I (which is a lot of them!). And the HPA will actually take hits in combat now, so any unit with flaming attacks will be a very scary proposition. Fair enough imo, that thing was op before.
668 - the neighbour of the beast.
I think that the skaven armybook is priced for 8th edition. PCB's aren't undercosted, they're just priced for not striking first on the charge all the time.
The assassin should get a boost, with re-roll to hit against 99% of enemies (ASF, I8).
My Southland's Beastmen (and other fantasy armies and warbands) (updated 2013-05-10)
mrtn's dirty rotters (Plague Marines) (updated 2013-05-10)
Necromunda Desert Rats
mrtn's terrain Warhammer Fantasy Mod 2.5 for Civilization III Conquests
The Herdstone mrtn's Thirty Years of War (updated 2013-05-10)
Stormvermin are actually Initiative 5. So they will be faster then almost everything. I am looking forward to 8th edition with my Skaven. Though its Mostly Clan Pestilens I am working on getting some Stormvermin and Rat Ogres... Initiative 4 Big guys with that crush attack will be some fun.
I'm looking forward to seeing if the slot restrictions are being lifted, and armies will in fact only by limited by the percentage system. That will open up a lot options to play with. Hell you could have FOUR cheap Warlord in a 2,000pt game if you wanted to. Poisenwind globadiers will be seen again now that they don't have to compete for those special slots.
Stormvermin looking good for 8th. Seven points for WS4, I5, S4 and a 5+ save is not bad. We're probably going to be seeing blocks of 30+. Funny how a unit that seemed so underwhelming was just sitting in wait for 8th ed.
Assassins are starting to sound rather nice. They'll almost certainly be rerolling all their to hit rolls. Give them one or two of the items from the new rulebook and they should be good to go character hunting.
Not sure what Skaven have to deal with Bloodknights and the like though.
Skaven characters in general got a boost because you aren't limited to 4 in a <3000 pt game.
I foresee a lot of naked warlocks sans death globe/brass orb/doomrocket and assassins w/weeping blade being skitterleaped around the table and then charge/throw deadly stuff at big targets and characters
VVVV Then how about skitterleaping a lvl 1 warlock close to the enemy, shoot the doomrocket/brass orb and then try to miscast by rolling tons of dice for warplightning. Stand next to an enemy unit and get a miscast result of large template S10
Last edited by CauCaSus; 16-06-2010 at 10:32.
Magic is leathal a ultimate force is ALSO a miscast and that table is full of str10/6 small and large templates so it's a gamble but that's skaven. Go the rats.
I'm really hoping that monstous infantry finally getting some attention in the BRB will maybe make it safer to mount a warlord on a bonebreaker. If he can't be singled out with missle fire as easily would be nice. I can just picture 5 ROgres lead by a warlord mounted on a bonebreaker really tearing through some of the big infantry blocks everyone is talking about fielding in 8th. Give the warlord Portents of Vermenous Doom, and force the opponent to pass his fear checks at-1.
There's a whole section on monsterous infantry didn't look what was in it( no time) but it's in the contents table.
What could also be very nice is shelling out for slings on big slave blocks. 50 slaves with musician and sling are still only 127 pts, but they can dish out a lot of attacks in horde formation, and shoot 40 slingshots at short range as well!
2-3 of those units as vanguard... might be worth considering.
Well yesterday i played 2 500 pt games against vamps (lost), and warriors of chaos (won)all of us were fairly new players but i must say the miscast chart is horrifying, especially if you placed a warlock/plague priest in a regiment of clan rats acting as a mage bunker.
i also tried what bruder loras was suggesting (tho not with as many slaves i only had 20!) and it was actually fairly effective. picked off a few crypt ghouls and warriors here and there.
all in all 8th seems to be much more fun.
Doesn't matter which side you're fighting on. So long as you have more ranks. As far as i could see in the book anyway.
Units in the flanks DISRUPT ranks, they don't break them, which means you can't add your rank bonus to your combat result....
So even if engaged in the flank you STILL HAVE your rank bonus.
Stubborn units with characters make the characters stubborn, stubborn characters make the units stubborn.
and yes the only difference between stubborn & steadfast is that stubborn units don't get negetive modifiers from combat regardless of ranks.
So: 30 clan rats 5x6 is in combat with a unit of 15: 5x3 swordsmen, and a detachment of 10 5x2 halbardeers
Clanrats lose 5 to combat and do 3 kills back in the swordsmen and 0 on the helbardeers.
You claim no rank bonus for combat:
But have Charged, 3 kills & a stick so 5
Empire have: 2 ranks, 5 kills, stick & a flank so 9
You lose by 4, but you're still testing on 5+3 ranks = Ld 8 stubborn as you have more ranks. And if you've got a warlord in the unit then you're on 10.
In current rules you'd be:
But have Outnumber, 3 kills & a stick so 5
Empire have: 2 ranks, 5 kills, stick & a flank so 9
Losing by 4
Ld 5 - 4 = 1 So double 1's....
Well, once they errata the new steadfast to use SiN
"if the UK ever fights on mars, on at least one occasion the troops will climb out of the trenches and perform a bayonet charge while a Scotsman plays the bagpipes"
Sieg Kaiser Reinhard!
On a sidenote monstrous mounts now merge their profiles with the rider. Apparently it's riders toughness (bad as you'll downgrade from the Bonebreaker's 5 to the Warlord's 4) but the mount's wounds (good, you have one more wound). Don't really know if this will make bonebreaker mounts better or worse options. I *think* that they should technically be more survivable now, as there's no singling out the rider for attacks.
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