Skaven in 8th Ed.

[Skyros]

It's possibly they'll FAQ/Errata SiN to not work if you are flanked...or they could just say you can't use your siN leadership for steadfast tests, but can use the generals.

[Cjwee]

how many clan rats do you guys think should be in a regiment now? I've been running 30 in small point games (500ish) and they seem to be alright. Do you guys think that we've gotta increase the size once it hits bigger points values?

[Blair]

From my very limited knowledge of 8th it looks to be somewhere between 30-50 depending on front rank width.

[shortlegs]

I dread facing a skaven army in 8th.

I've never seen a non-deathstar unit stand up to the furnace+PM unit, and it will still be as effective as ever in 8th ed. Now skaven has another power unit in the form of a 50-strong unit of horde stormvermin and a cheap 15pt engineer with skavenbrew. Run them together, maybe throw in 2 aboms if you're really feeling evil, and I think many armies simply have no answer for them.

Too bad I don't play rats..

[Gekiganger]

I dread facing a skaven army in 8th.

I've never seen a non-deathstar unit stand up to the furnace+PM unit, and it will still be as effective as ever in 8th ed. Now skaven has another power unit in the form of a 50-strong unit of horde stormvermin and a cheap 15pt engineer with skavenbrew. Run them together, maybe throw in 2 aboms if you're really feeling evil, and I think many armies simply have no answer for them.

Too bad I don't play rats..

I'd have an answer for it. Stop playing such a poor opponent. If I saw a list like that anywhere outside of a tournament (where you expect the worst) then the opponent wouldn't be getting any games off me again. On a tourney scene abominations are not quite as strong as they used to be with the loss of charge auto-striking first and the abundance of ways to generate flaming attacks / upgrade to the magic lores. Template weapons are also quite nasty against large blocks now guessing is gone.

[decker_cky]

I think the 10 rank unit of slaves is going to be huge now. High leadership and deep ranks for cheap = win.

[shortlegs]

I'd have an answer for it. Stop playing such a poor opponent. If I saw a list like that anywhere outside of a tournament (where you expect the worst) then the opponent wouldn't be getting any games off me again. On a tourney scene abominations are not quite as strong as they used to be with the loss of charge auto-striking first and the abundance of ways to generate flaming attacks / upgrade to the magic lores. Template weapons are also quite nasty against large blocks now guessing is gone.

Most players in my area are of the min-maxed variety. Something like the above skaven army wouldn't be far-fetched at all.

But the very fact that you CAN make such a strong list(s) from skaven shows just how powerful they are. Coupled with multiple template batteries and cheap exploding slaves, the skaven book is choked full of not just good, but VERY GOOD choices. I could easily see them catapulting to tier 1, perhaps even above DE.

[Blair]

I haven't even finished assembling the Skaven Box Set I picked up, let alone played a game of Fantasy but already the whining coming from some of the people on this thread is making me wonder why I abandoned 40K for Fantasy. Fantasy appealed to me because of the strong tactical element and yet there are some contributers to this thread crying about a certain units in the Skven army being too cheesy/powerful/broken and that they wouldn't play an opponent with them in the army.

Whatever happened to enjoying the challenge of a tough match instead of just resigning yourself to a lose when you see a HPA or similar? Do these players that complain about these "broken" units not play against High Elves or Daemons of Chaos because those armies are considered top tier are generally hard to beat and/or easier to win with?

Power gamers are a facet that some people do not like about the hobby, but I would never decline an offer to play someone for the first, even if they were considered a power gamer. It's not just the opponents army that makes a game enjoyable, it's also how the opponent conducts himself. Which in turn is applied to you as his opponent. Would you want to get a reputation as someone that only plays games on your own terms? I call those people brats.

[Rogzor87]

I am currently trying to decide an army list for m skaven in 8th. Currently I am fairly certain I will be taking Rat Ogres and Stormvermin. They will just be amazing in 8th. Plaguemonks will most definatly always be brought with me as well(Clan Pestilens is my favorite clan).

I feel large Horde units of everything(slaves/Stormvermin/Clan Rats/Plague Monks/Nightrunner) will be seen everywhere with skaven. Possibly even Giant rat packs of 2-3 ranks(if they errata the 3rd rank of rats can attack). Poisoned Wind Mortors and plagueclaw catapults will most likely be more common because of no guess range and the templates!

Like everyone else i do expect to see several Warplock Engineers going boom everywhere with skitterleap.

This is just some of my opinions and belief.

[mrtn]

Fantasy appealed to me because of the strong tactical element and yet there are some contributers to this thread crying about a certain units in the Skven army being too cheesy/powerful/broken and that they wouldn't play an opponent with them in the army.

If you have issues with whining on the internet about Fantasy, may I suggest that you don't give up Fantasy, but rather give up the internet?

[Blair]

If you have issues with whining on the internet about Fantasy, may I suggest that you don't give up Fantasy, but rather give up the internet?

No, I like whining about whining.

I also hate irony.

I think I'll be making a Skyre themed army. I love the idea of twin Doomwheels!

[shortlegs]

Wow.. Whining about whining..

I love irony..

[Sygerrik]

Rat Ogres are getting the biggest bump. I'm considering running two Bonebreaker lords, each in a 5-man unit of Ogres (plus PMs, obviously); that's a Ld 8 check to restrain frenzy and an ungodly # of attacks at remarkably high I.

[Rogzor87]

I am curious if people will take huge hordes of Slaves. I know I plan on it. Even though they don't have the killing power as the MoK Mauraders everyone is QQing or whatever about. They have the ability to stall anything forever while still throwing out kills. Not to mention you can shoot into that combat without care to add more kills to the opponent.

[Icarus]

I'm personally thinking more of going with hordes of Clanrats, using smaller slave units as missile screens and roadblocks. However I agree that a horde unit of slaves would probably work well as a serious tarpit unit.

[ScytheSwathe]

Im likely to bump clanrats up to 40 in a 5x8 formation. (Im not feeling the horde rule). And probably keep to 20 slaves for nuisance purposes

[SevenSins]

Large slave units should be good. With quasi-stubborn on good leadership combined with life is cheap, warpfire and slaves seems like a combo made in heaven

What are peoples thoughts on jezzails and globadiers in 8th?

I look forward to rat ogres probably becoming usefull, as well as the bonebreaker.

[Lord Solar Plexus]

Units in the flanks DISRUPT ranks, they don't break them, which means you can't add your rank bonus to your combat result....

So even if engaged in the flank you STILL HAVE your rank bonus.

Not sure what you mean with "disrupt" but when you are flanked by anyone with two ranks himself, you will lose the rank bonus, and if that happens, you lose the leadership bonus. It's spelled out very very clearly. What am I missing?

So: 30 clan rats 5x6 is in combat with a unit of 15: 5x3 swordsmen, and a detachment of 10 5x2 halbardeers

Clanrats lose 5 to combat and do 3 kills back in the swordsmen and 0 on the helbardeers.

I realize it is just an example but those numbers and conclusions are off. 10 attacks against the Swordsmen kill 2.3, 4 attacks against the detachment kill 1.8 for a total of 4 kills. Swordsmen kill 1.7, 8 remaining Halberdiers kill 2.2. You haven't lost a rank, the detachment doesn't negate ranks.

Skaven: 4 kills + 1 charge + 3 ranks = 8
Empire: 4 kills + 1 charge + 1 flank + 1 rank (they started with only 2 and have lost one) = 7 - they lose.

You lose by 4, but you're still testing on 5+3 ranks = Ld 8 stubborn as you have more ranks.

If the detachment can retain it's own rank, you lose your rank bonus and therefore you lose your leadership bonus.

[Galatan]

What are peoples thoughts on jezzails and globadiers in 8th?

I think jezzails will still be good use. With TLOS could give you a bit more freedom in placing them, IF you only want to use them against the big stuff. Otherwise I think they will remain the same.

With the new skirmishers rule I still have to see how PCB and globadiers will work out, but I think PCB will be more support (as they always were intended to be) and globadiers will remain the same (pretty useful in my eyes).

Thanks to the new percentage system I think I'll take lots of small special units (and of course a decent sized plague monk unit). One major shift for me is taking multiple gutter runner units. I think arti will become more prevalent now the slots are gone (I calculated an empire army with 2 mortars and 2 cannons and still plenty of infantry), so I think you really want take some more arti hunters. Something in which I think gutter runners ideal at.

So...2-4 gutter runner units of 6 with slings? Small, cheap, cheerfull and good enough to kill arti.

[Areku]

Horrible strategy, but might be a fun idea:

Take a warlord general and get a cheap gray seer then load up on warlocks but make sure they can cast a spell.

Skitterleap them behind enemy lines (near war machines if they have them, scouts, weak targets, etc. Just follow the 1" rules) and then toss a ton of dice at warp lightning at a random unit. If you get really lucky you'll get Loss of Control and roll a 2-6 and possibly take out some war machine crew and whatever else the spell happens to kill is a bonus!

Like I said, not a good strategy, but still, imagine the fun of a lightning flinging warlock that explodes with either a large S10 template or a small S10 template (and if for some reason he survives and gets killed that's what, 50 points?)