Tactica-wood elves 8th ed

[The Blades of reason]

from what i've seen most other armies have one so heres the wood elf one, yay!

some things i've thought on are shooting in two ranks, i always field 3 units of 10 in two ranks and i find trhe nearest hill and stay put, but shooting in two ranks means they are are more manouverable and can keep up with the rest of the stuff.

this is all i've got at the moment so what other changes are tehre that is good fot the wood elves that you have noticed.

[Malorian]

Dryads will be useful in larger units.

Waywatchers won't be as effective as they can't hide behind 2+ inches of terrain.

Marching blocking also won't be as easy so those units of glade guard will be jumped on sooner.

With more people taking mroe shooting our fragile units will be hard pressed.

Needing a rank to take away ranks, and stubborn when you have more ranks, will mean it'll be even harder to break units quickly.


Basically I really don't think wood elves will be in a good state...

[bluemage]

Yeah I'm not really sure how wood elves will even be competative come 8th. Based on the rumours, what I've come up with is running more glade guard as now they can fire in two ranks. Dryads will still be effective I think. But war dancers and wild riders will need to be replaced with treekin.

Wardancers and wild riders will be killed by the return attacks and won't break a stubborn enemy. The treekin have the durability to stand there and hits. Which is pretty irritating when you take into account that treekin are $20 US and ugly models. I don't own any currently and don't want to spend several hundred dollars but 8+ treekin. I'd rather go start another army for that much. Hopefully they get some nice looking plastic models in the near future.

Rather negative but I think the best strategy come 8th is to selve them and play something else. True Line of Sight means you can't high behind forests and hills anymore. Difficult terrain is supposed to be removed, I guess to facilitate large blocks of infantry moving around the board. And march blocking can be ignored with a leadership check. I really don't see them doing well come 8th.

GW doesn't want people playing hiding, skirmishing armies, which is what warhammer has become. The problem is that wood elves can't compete any other way.

[Witchblade]

Treemen
6-man+ treekin units
Lots of shooting
A serious amount of magic
Some dryads
Some warmachine hunters

Boring...

[GodlessM]

Dryads will be useful in larger units.

How do you figure? They have to adapt a static formation, lose 360 LOS, and do not benefit from a rank bonus despite having the rank up. By my reckoning the only skirmishers worth their salt in 8th are those with ranged weapons.

One thing to note is that if solo man-sized characters on foot still count as skirmishers then the Alter Noble/Born can march 18" and then shoot his bow, giving him a potential 48" range.

[goodz]

C-staff level 4 spellweaver and 3x dispel scrolls. - my total magic/magic defense in one little elf.

treemen and dryads both stay useful. All the things i hate in the list are nice

Unlimited casting of treesinging with 2D6 dice and adding your caster level would be sexy,
Treemen for bound spell and the fact that they pwn, especially now that you can surf them even further likley.

Glade riders i don't see as very useful now that they can not march block...
Eternal gaurd might be decent in a big block, but i think i prefer dryads.
ww just arent as good as treemen in new rules except in rare occasions.


I was contimplating a unit of 20 gladegaurd in 2 ranks of 10 if i can stand and shoot 20 shots might be able to panic or at least rip apart some units, especially if charging from close range. still pretty uncertain about how i feel about big units of gg though

Interesting to see what people do, I am intent on continuing a list with no tree spirits so we shall see how that goes

I havent read anything about the new forest rules, but maybe they will make tree singing uber powerful:P to balance the elfs

[bluemage]

The reason that dryads might be more useful in large formations is protracted combats. Wood Elves aren't going to have much that can break the opponents ranks, so you're bound to take some casualties. Also against someone using a horde formation, you'll be able get alot more dryads into base to base.

I'm assuming that even though skirmishers will have some form of being ranked up, you'll still move them all into base to base if possible when in combat.

[goodz]

I'm assuming that even though skirmishers will have some form of being ranked up, you'll still move them all into base to base if possible when in combat.

I assumed i could still put my waywatchers in a unit of 6 as below so they arent taking up huge space, might have read the rumor wrong though, but yea i dunno if they would stay ranked up in close combat, shall be interesting

XOXOXO
OXOXOX

[nick_robinsonchia]

Outlook is bleak...

So many negatives but very few positives. My brothers gonna be pissed lol. This is what I can see so far that hasn't allready been said. I'm just gonna stick with a couple of poitice points as the negatives seem pretty obvious.

Positives
1. Treekin and eternal guard got better.
2. ITP wardancers and dryads will likely attack first if they got themselves into a situation where they get charged. Seeing as how they couldn't flee anyway they got stronger at taking a charge.
3. Shooting in ranks. Combined with a more manoeverable movement phase means close supporting fire will take a significant boost. I have a feeling you will see 15 strong ranked archers with standard and musicians being used in a dual role as close fire support and potential flankers of weak infantry/cav. Seeing as they have WS 4 the majority of large units will only be hitting on a 4 so I think casualties back from a average ranked unit won't be to severe. I think that + combined combat unit charges to actually get kills might be the best option at this point.
4. Treemen get a killing bump with the d6 stomp attack. Well priced for their role it seems they will do it better now.
5. Wardancers and wildriders get a 5+ward against magic missiles which will help out some.
6. Gladeriders and wild riders will perform hunting roles better with the Free 12 inch move but overall have been diminished because of the must have a rank rule . Honestly I'm not quite sure what WR are supposed to do now... They were never hitty enough to take a unit from the front... Now they either can't negate ranks(if it's a legitimate rank for negating or just models in a second rank I'm not sure) or else are prohibitively expensive.

That's all I got time for. Keep it coming il likely direct my brother here...hopefully he doesn't get too disconcerted !!

N

[GodlessM]

The reason that dryads might be more useful in large formations is protracted combats. Wood Elves aren't going to have much that can break the opponents ranks, so you're bound to take some casualties. Also against someone using a horde formation, you'll be able get alot more dryads into base to base.

I'm assuming that even though skirmishers will have some form of being ranked up, you'll still move them all into base to base if possible when in combat.

The usual Eternal Guard set up including Highborn with the Rhymer's Harp is more reliable and resilient, and will be tonnes more effective overall.

C-staff level 4 spellweaver and 3x dispel scrolls. - my total magic/magic defense in one little elf.

Scrolls will be unique.

[bluemage]

Do you really think Eternal Guard will pull their own weight in combat? The reason most people don't seem to run them now is that they 1. don't own any, and 2. strength three doesn't kill enough for a 12 point model. They're also toughness 3 and their armor is easier to reduce.

I know I'm not taking the lord and rhymer's harp into account, but you can only take one harp. Is your plan to only run one unit of them? Because I think you'll need a second block or third block. The treeman is stubborn so can hold up a unit with a nearby bsb but your other flank will be open.

Since I only own 10 eternal guard I'll be trying out large units of dryads and seeing what happens.

[Witchblade]

A Highborn with the Harp will be mowed down with ease due to stepping up.

[bluemage]

The highborn's other item is usually annoyance of nettlings, and you just challenge with him. He's also ws7 so a number of units will be hitting him on 5s. And thanks to the 25% lords, you could take a lvl 4 wizard also and try and cast bears anger on him or the 8ed equivilent.

[Witchblade]

No opponent worth its salt is going to send something challengeable into an eternal guard unit with a highborn. You'll get hit by a hydra, a unit of heavy cavalry, elite infantry or ogre-class units, all of which have no trouble obliterating our puny T3 5+/5++ lord. I actually have a hard time coming up with commonly seen units of equal points value to the eternal guard bunker that will lose to it.

[CauCaSus]

I suppose WE armies will go more towards shoot-and-avoid tactics and away from the combat armies of 7th ed. Luckily I haven't bought more than the army box, but I'd really like to use wild riders and wardancers

[John Wayne II]

I see Wild Riders' future role as breaking up small units of shooters and skirmishers. If the rumours about the new Fast Cavalry rules are true then they will be able to reach the opponents gunline much faster than they can do now.

I see the "Eternal Guard plus Rhymer's Harp" set up as being very limited. It's very expensive and you can only do it with one unit. Dryads are more resilient against most non-magical opponents, are stronger and you can run them much cheaper without support. Their I6 will come in very handy, very few units will be able to get a first strike against them (those damned High Elves nonwithstanding).

[Witchblade]

I suppose WE armies will go more towards shoot-and-avoid tactics and away from the combat armies of 7th ed.

I think the exact opposite will happen. Avoidance will become much harder, so I think woodies will opt for semi-gunlines.

[Malorian]

I think the exact opposite will happen. Avoidance will become much harder, so I think woodies will opt for semi-gunlines.

Fully ranked glade guard with treemen on the flanks...

It could work.

[goodz]

i agree with malorian, can probably run 24 gladegaurd, maybe jam a noble with them, and just reform into ranks when it is near time for combat. I like them more then eternal gaurd still, you get hopefully 2 turns of shooting, reform, 10-12 stand and shoot S4 shots, and then 10-12 S3 attacks in close combat.

Eternal gaurd at 6x4 it is my understanding you would get 12 attacks for your first rank, and 6 for the next two? so its a bit better but you don't get the shooting on the way up Either way if your in 2-3 rounds of combat your dead due to T3 and bad save...

Rare options:
I think i'll finally use great eagles in percent, 50 points each! Can't get 2 treemen at 2250 but can probably squeeze a small unit of way watchers, 2 eagles and 1 treeman. at 3k if you want you can fit 2 treemen and 2 eagles. I am still putting together an all elf list, although i might put in eagles, they arent trees either so most of the things i think that improved won't apply to me.


I think i am going to build my 8th list to start base around lots of glade gaurd, who will shoot shoot shoot, and rank up for combat.


I mostly am on warseer from work so i don't have my book but i am thinking about building my army 2250 around 3 large blocks of glade gaurd, 2 eagles, and a unit of 4 warhawk riders, 2 units waywatchers, mage with cstaff, and a alter noble hunter. If points allow perhaps a

3 x 25 glade gaurd - 954
w/musician, banner

4x warhawk riders 160

2x great eagles 100

3 x 5 waywatchers 360

Alter High born - 301 (I thoguht i saw posted that skirmishers could potentially march and shoot, so kinda like that the dude can move 18 inchs and shoot things?)
Alter Kindred, Bow of Loren, Arcane Bodkins, Glamorweave, Enchanted shield
Spell Singer Level 2 - 175
C-staff, dispel scroll

Leaves 200 points that basically need to be core or special, havent decided what to do with these points yet 87.5 points can still go in heroes, don't have my book but might see if its possible to get wizard to level 3 to make tree singing easyier. Need to see a book to really fine tune at all but the biggest change for me is a lot more GG and no wardancers, also march blocking became meh but i think ill end up takeing a unit of glade riders anyway just to bait charges and be annoying

[willowdark]

Stepping up means that Alter Kindreds as they are will become completely useless. We'll have to choose between the Helm and the Briarsheath to go with the HoDA, and since GW will be such a liability, I see the Briarsheath being the choice and my Alter will never charge in as support again. He might make a good warmachine hunter once he's fired off the Arrow.

I see the Stone and the Sword of Might being a good build for Alters, definitely as support. It will depend a lot on the list of magic items in the book.