Tactica-wood elves 8th ed

[Matt.Wood88]

Cheers mate, this has given me a fair amount of stuff to digest and test out! I think I'll start with him not as an alter and see how it goes, though I think I I am needing to take leadership tests and relying on the ld 10 them something has probably gone wrong :P
Cheers
Matt

[Daniel36]

I played a 2k game yesterday in which I deployed a ten wide unit of 34 (+ Lord) Eternal Guard!!
Unfortunately I couldn't get into any real close combat with them, as they were attacked to the rear by Vargheists and I rolled poorly for my break test, but the potential to destroy was absolutely there!

Next time, I am going to deploy them 7 wide, to give them more manouvrability and less "oh noes, horde formation" type reactions.

Now, they are a unit I NEVER see in a list. They have a bucket load of attacks... The only issue is you are better off converting them from High Elf Spearmen, but other than that... They are pretty sweet. I am hoping to use them against something like Beastmen or Dark Elves or something next time. So tell me, why are they never present?

[tmarichards]

They need way too much support to be worthwhile- a harp character who is usually a level 4 mage and a Highborn with a Dawnspear, and even after all of that they're still just S3.

If you could take Beasts on hero mages I think they'd have a lot more mileage, as you could go with 2 level 1s and a Level 4 for triple Wildform along with Curse.

[Malorian]

I think paired with lore of life or lore of beasts they can do well. The problem is that they NEED the magic to do well.

The nice thing is that they are stubborn with the lord so you can take the charge when 5 wide to reduce losses and then reform wider and beef them up with magic on your turn.

The real problem however is that this will be your only effective combat block and will need to take on the entire enemy force. Something it really isn't able to do unless we are talking about a BIG unit beefed up with a LOT of magic.

[Daniel36]

Well... I think an added bonus that they have outside of the rules is, nobody really expects them.

I took them again today (I am on a gaming roll for some reason), 7 wide this time, against Beastmen. I ultimately lost due to a really stupid mistake I made, but had I not made that mistake, I would have won the game, and this is against an experienced player who took the same list to a tournament which he won. Okay, so part of that was probably just dumb luck, btu I enjoyed the list... and in the end... enjoying ourselves is what it's all about...

Though I understand that this thread is not about that... So...

I think Eternal Guard are definitely underrated. I can understand every reasoning against them, but sometimes even when the numbers are against you, it's worthwhile to take them anyways.

[Mechanium]

Lets talk about Dragons, because we can slap a 3++ on one, and our scroll caddies can randomly make them ethereal from shooting.

So aside from the Brooch what do we put on the Highborn? Dawnspear seems really cute for keeping that dragon alive, especially if it gets a fear off, the Wraithstone would help there (this is a bad idea).

[N0th1ng c4n b34t 3lv3s]

3++ Ward, Dawnspear & Glittering Scales could that be something?

[tmarichards]

Stone of Crystal Mere and the Charmed Shield are my first choices, CS because it means you only need to pass 1 3++ vs the first cannon instead of 2.

After that, Dawnspear and OTS could work, or ASF sword and Potion of Strength.

[smileyface]

Eternal Guard!!
Now, they are a unit I NEVER see in a list. They have a bucket load of attacks... The only issue is you are better off converting them from High Elf Spearmen, but other than that... They are pretty sweet. I am hoping to use them against something like Beastmen or Dark Elves or something next time. So tell me, why are they never present?

They're S3, which means they need support. Whether said support is magic buffs or characters or supporting units, it's still support and it still costs.
Also, they cost too much. In attacks terms they're basically the same as HE spears. But they cost a lot more and they don't have ASF. Also, you can't get shadow magic which means they can't be mindrazored. When HE list advice is all about minimum core and magical buffs, and life is regarded as second place to shadow, an eternal guard plus WE support combo is basically going to be more expensive and less good than a HE spear plus support combo. So why do it? If you want to play using an army based on that sort of combo you could play HE and do it better.

Obviously "I like wood elves" is a good answer. But it's not a tactical answer.

[popisdead]

smileyface has it. It's fun to play around with Eternal Guard but another other combat oriented infantry will munch through them. And T3 heroes even with a 2+ Ward don't last forever.

[macattack428]

Bump! Didn't see this anywhere. Wanted to bring it back up.

[tmarichards]

I'll go ahead and throw something new(ish_ out there that I think a fair few people already know about, but could be worth getting some more discussion about.

The newest FAQ puts out eagle Nobles up to T4, which is actually a pretty decent buff. However, the Eternal Guard FAQ means the days of 2+ save Eagle Nobles with good wards is basically done. That said, what are some good builds people have been using? My own personal favourite is the Warrior Bane, Dragonhelm, Amaranthine Brooch chap with light armour and shield, comes in at 179pts which isn't cheap but does his role.

Prior to the FAQ I wrote off the Armour of Destiny Noble as being just too fragile at T3, but with the T4 he might get a new lease on life. Anyone used any which they've found to work particularly well, or have there been some which looked awesome on paper but then failed on the table?

[ashe]

I don't get that rule, dose it apply to all monster mounts or just to normal troops riding them? Because if it applies to all monster mounts dragon lords would make a quick comeback.

[tmarichards]

Just to monstrous cavalry sadly.

[MasterSplinter]

Hi guys!

I am fair(l)y new to 8th edition woodies and would like to get your opinion on several things.
First, What would you recommend to, to equipp a level 4 wizard, highborn and noble? What effective builds are there?
I was thinking of playing a level 2 with the deepwood sphere, do you think it will have any use?

Whats your opinion of waywatchers? I have about 25 of them lying around, and i really like the models.

[Chicago Slim]

If you were to read through all 60 pages of this thread (which I understand is somewhat undesirable), I think you'd find that the most preferred build is based around multiple small units, featuring a *lot* of Glade Guard (20-30 models per 1000 points), backed up by solid magic (a level 4 life mage is a pretty common choice), and a handful of fighting units (Dryads, Tree Kin, maybe a Treeman or some Wardancers or Wild Riders) to mop-up whatever doesn't get completely shot to death. I can personally attest that playing such a list is a pretty satisfying experience, though it does get old after a while (for you, and for your opponents).

Other possible builds: see the comments about Eternal Guard, just on the last few pages, for one option. There's been some previous discussion about whether or not it's possible to fit enough Tree Kin in to make them the backbone of a good army (I'm still skeptical about that one, myself). I haven't seen a lot of call for tons of Waywatchers: I think that they're too expensive, for what they currently do (all Scouts now do much of what Waywatchers were designed to do, in terms of deploying in the opponent's deployment zone if they aren't careful, and starting inside charge range). So, in terms of using the models, you might consider fielding them as "Counts-As" Glade Guard Scouts (or even regular Glade Guard, come to that...)

Enjoy, good luck, and let this list know what you're fielding, and how it goes!

[tmarichards]

First, What would you recommend to, to equipp a level 4 wizard, highborn and noble? What effective builds are there?
I was thinking of playing a level 2 with the deepwood sphere, do you think it will have any use?

Whats your opinion of waywatchers? I have about 25 of them lying around, and i really like the models.

I'm a big fan of the infantry Wood Elf list, mainly because I love the way it plays, even if it does suffer a bit in the meta, so I always run my level 4 on Lore of Beasts. In general I think it's a much better lore for Wood Elves than Life (tbh I think it's an out and out better lore overall). A build I like quite a bit for a level 4 is Dispel Scroll, MR2 and the Moonstone. She's quite expensive, but does her job pretty well and the MR2 is quite helpful against Death snipes but it's not essential by any means.

For the Highborn, I love the Bow of Loren/Arcane Bodkins build. The move up to T4 for Demigryphs has hurt him a bit, but he's still pretty decent at dealing with T4 1W knights and he gives you ld10 which is awesome in an MSU army. I like to run mine with a Charmed Shield as more insurance against the first cannonball or for the turn he has to run out on his own, and I'm finding Annoyance of Nettlings really useful against lone characters that WE struggle to bring down.

For Nobles, there are only 2 builds I use with any regularity- a BSB with Asyendi's Bane and the Hail of Doom Arrow, and an Eagle Noble with light armour, shield, Warrior Bane, Dragonhelm and Amaranthine Brooch.

I'm not sold on the Divination Orb level 2, I think it's too many points that adds too little. At best, it's extremely situational. That said, I've never actually used her so it could be worth a try. I wouldn't run her as a level 2 though, I don't think it'd add anything as you'll be casting Treesinging on 2 dice anyway so the +2 won't matter, she'll often die after doing her thing and the second Athel Loren spell won't do too much.

For Waywatchers- I really like them. They're expensive, but they add something which nothing else in the list can do which is to threaten the 1+ re-rollable lone mounted characters that can otherwise single-handedly trample Wood Elf characters- think Scar-Vets and DE peg heroes specifically, but Orcs on boars and Chaos characters on Discs can do the same thing. I always miss mine when I don't take them, and even though they won't work every game when they do work it's very helpful indeed. I like to run 2x6.

EDIT- I got muddled up between the Divination Orb and Deepwood Sphere. The latter is the one I was thinking, the Divination Orb however is definitely not worthwhile.

[MasterSplinter]

Well, thank you Chicago Slim and tmarichards, i will use your suggestions in my list and report how well it has worked for me.
So, i will need a couple of glade guard to add, and maybe i can do a playable list with the minis i have.

[Mchagen]

a BSB with Asyendi's Bane and the Hail of Doom Arrow

How can asyendi's bane be used with hoda? I didn't see anything in the FAQ changing the hoda so that it can be used with magic bows.

[tmarichards]

It doesn't get the benefit of the magic bow, but he can still use it to fire it.