Archaon has not been defeated by the Champion of Light which means if Valten is dead he can't be the Champion of Light.
Something else that bothers me is that Nagash wasn’t to be found in his fortress when Settra attacked it. Could it have been that Nagash made Mannfred fall back because he needed him for another purpose? The old idea in the Undead army book was that Mannfred had only been brought back because it was by Nagash’s will it was done.
Why? The good guy isn't required to win. He can lose. At least I hope so.
All for one and every man for himself - normal mercenary tactics
Volkmar for president of chaos!
Council of 13, Katy gaming club]
Well since he never did what the Champion of Light was suppose to do he can't be a Champion of Light can he?
Sure he can (could)! Archaon was supposed the end of the world wasn't he? but he didn'tOriginally Posted by Nagash
Just because prophecies claim something doesn't mean its accurate! Valten was the "reincarnation of sigmar" but Archaon is not exactly the "typical" chaos lord. He outpowered, outclassed, and outstyled Valten. The champion of light is deadso what?!! Get a new one. I elect Karl Franz(or deathclaw which ever you perfer)
I bust MINE to KICK YOURS!
"Chaos in its purest form is the only truth."_Rocky
Maybe the legends of old arent exactly as truthful as you might expect, remember Valtens isnt dead hes just gone on holiday for abit(Karl Franz and Huss seen in background throwing bodybag over a bridge)
Though I must admit the idea that Nagash is pulling Mannfreds for whatever devious reason is intresting...might we see the Vampires preparing to enact their revenge for Lahmia?
Gnoblars, best thing to come out of the Ogre Kingdoms since sliced Halfling
Why would settra attack Negash's fortress?! are undead all not allies? Doesn't Negash own them? Besides even if Negash does join the fray who is he going to attack? empire? Crom? Cathay? TKs? Its not like he will wander unseen.
I bust MINE to KICK YOURS!
"Chaos in its purest form is the only truth."_Rocky
All undead are not all allies strigoi are hunted by all bloodlines, necracrh hate everyone so the only real undead allies are von carsteins and lahimians.
The Vampire counts divided by their bloodlines war amongst themselves and pursue their own agendas, only the Necrachs follow Nagash rule. The Tomb Kings are united (for the most part) by Setra and they all resent Nagash for distrupting their reincarnation. Nagash has a few really loyal followers (was it nine chosen of Nagash? Kimmler, Krell and Arkan the Black) and those undead he holds under his personal magic aswell as the Necrach who follow his teachings.
Nagash will attack either Khemri (to finally put them under his total control as has been his desire) or the Empire (he knows it only as the home of uncivilised men and their hammer weilding leader who killed him before) Remember Nagash used his powers to move the Orcs under Azhag to atack the Empire as far as Altdorf I believe untill the Theoginist kill Azhag and sealed the crown Nagash was using to influence him away, theres also Nagash's hand crawling around somewhere...
Gnoblars, best thing to come out of the Ogre Kingdoms since sliced Halfling
We never said that Valten was the Champion of Light, some gamers did. He was believed to be Sigmar Reborn by some, but Karl Franz didn't quite buy that. Perhaps the CoL was Grimgor. Perhaps it was Teclis, or Mannfred, or Volkmar.
You decide
GAV
PS Perhaps the whole Champion of Light thing is a distraction, a Chaos equivalent of the bogeyman to keep young Everchosens from misbehaving
I just think the Empire used Valten as an excuse to make holy war on Chaos.
Nagash would most likely strike at the Empire because if he would regain his crown he would become powerful enough to enslave the Tomb Kings. But he needs Mannfred to do most of the work inside the Empire to make it vurneable for an attack from the south.
IMo the SoC was completely FUBAR!
First of Chaos were so spanked that the empire should have been infact pushing them back!
Every time the forces of chaos were bogged down their saving grace would come in the form of the skaven who saved their asses more then once. If chaos had problems taking a town Gav would say "errr the skaven used their underground tunnels too attack the empire from the rear" or "errr Skaven went upwind of the town and made 10.000 slaves fart simultaneously, which made the empire FLEE".
The skaven even killed Valten in the end, and left a bloody nuke in middenheim!
Everything about this campaign was wrong (it took Valten and Karl Franz longer time too march with an army from reikland too middenheim then it took the forces of chaos too fight their way down from the chaos wasts. I guess Valten needed too pee many times on the long treck).
As you see nothing makes ANY sense from a fluff point of view.
But the campaign wasn’t about fluff but about games played. The orcs fought hard for the empire (yes most orc commanders and websites fought chaos, primarily cause of the whole Crom VS Grimgore stuff.
And if the Orcs hadn’t supported the Empire things would have been a hell lot closer!
The end of the SoC isn’t the best fluff wise but it DOES show that the orcs played a MAJOR roll in the outcome of SoC.
And about mannferd i agree that i think he should have protected the empire both cause it is his life stock and out of pure pride (if somones gonna destroy the empire its gonna be me damn it!)
Thorpe sux ass!
Orcs don't fight fair. Fact. You loose to one, it sucks to be you. Fact.He did NOT DO WELL against archaon, he blind sided him with a 'eddbutt.Cowardly Gobbo! Had he had the brass to face Archaon in single combat when they were both ready....Grimgor's face would be plastered into the ifigy!
I'd actualy like the idea of Grimgor humiliating Archaon if fleshing him out as a character was the main goal and not a side effect of Gav's 'save chaos from their total loss' pitch.
All hail St.Olanius Pius. RHUF!
Valten was (or is, since he's not confirmed dead) the champion of light. The title isn't something to be passed around like a collection tin: each one is picked in advance of things as the tides of magic rise and the Everchosen readies his armies. The basic criteria for their kind are simple and constant, in spite of the myths associated with them (that they're always human, for one). A champion of light is empowered by his god, in some manner, and usually carries unique items associated with them. Secondly, he is fated to confront his Chaos counterpart in single combat. (One might attempt to argue for Grimgor as the CoL - think about it: his relationship to Gork, one or two of his magical items...) The result of the two men's duel decides the ultimate fate of the warhammer world. Whoever dies, loses. Straight-forward. Valten wasn't slain by Archaon during their tussle, and so the world survives.
Nagash indeed manipulates many of the Old World's major Undead players; Mannfred, however, loathes even the thought of being Nagash's pawn, and has said so on more than one occasion. He is his own master, or so he believes.
Last edited by ryng_sting; 02-03-2006 at 19:27.
Sorry for being anal, but Valten's original sneak peek on the GW website had the title "Valten, Champion of The Light" before it was quickly changed a few days later to "Champion of Sigmar".
Heinrich Kemmler also believes that he is his own master and yet he is a manipulated by Nagash. The Supreme Lord of the Undead is not to be underestimated.
hello there...
Grimy let archy live to make him feel like he felt before! Crom didn't kill Grimy and so he felt kind of mercy for his boss (as if an orc could fell such sinky humanity!
Because he forgot. Too many shrooms can cause short term memory loss. Perhaps.
I Like Cake
IG W9 L4 D1
nice one
but i still think he just wanted to embarase him!
nice one
but i still think he just wanted to embarase him!
You guys are missing the point!
The fluff showes what happened in the SoC.
Orc had a major impact on the campaign and hence they got a big part in the fluff!
No, we all got the point. What we're doing is questioning the quality of the background, not why it was there.You guys are missing the point!
The fluff showes what happened in the SoC.
Orc had a major impact on the campaign and hence they got a big part in the fluff!
"Oh... man... forget silly Nagash and the foppish Dark Elves, English 2000 and Eldacar are the true villains!" ~Twisted Ferret
"You sir, win at life." ~Damien 1427
"Eldacar ~ The quote in your sig still stands." ~Damien 1427 (
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