Tactica: Dark Elves in 8th edition

[stonehorse]

Couldn't see one of these, so i thought it best to get one up and running.

I haven't played the new edition yet so this is all theory, and could prove to be as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

In the new edition now that all combat is done in Inititve order I'm thinking that Witches will be worth while taking as in big blocks, may be even Horde if one is brave enough... a 10 wide unit of 40 with a Hag who has the Rune of Khaine can pump out an impressive 52-54 attacks, which are backed up by Poison, and hatred... this unit is just crying out to have the Banner of Murder. Ok the unit will be very points heavy, but against most rank and file units it will be blender. One could also add in a Death Hag as a BSB with the Always Strike First Banner (can't recall it's name right now), add in an assassin as well for all kinds of fun.

War Hydras are now just scary, and I think may get a bit of a beating with the upcoming FAQ.

Spearmen are better then ever, cheap as chips... good stat line, and hatred. Again a real contender for a unit of 40 deployed 10 wide. Thanks to Hatred they should be able to go toe to toe with most enemy basic infantry... other than High Elves, who I think are going to give our forces a bit of tough job.

Repeater Crossbowmen I think are going to be used in the same way as they have always been, but now taking up less space as they can fire in 2 ranks... which is a God send!

Now that a unit can reform after winning a combat this reduces our one weakness of Hatred where we have to always purse, before it was easy for the enemy to set up a counter to our exposed flank. Now this isn't the case, which is good for us.

Has anyone played with the Dark Elves in the new edition yet, if so care to add to this?

Cheers.

[Falkman]

this reduces our one weakness of Hatred where we have to always purse

This is no longer the case in 8th, Hatred just gives re-rolls in the first round of combat now, you're not forced to pursue anymore.

[stonehorse]

Thanks for the heads up, didn't see that when I had a look at the rulebook. That is a big boon for our forces.

I've been thinking about the Repeater Crossbowmen units, and I'm thinking that units of 20 deployed 10 wide could also be useful. 40 shots per turn, stand and shoot with 40 shots and then attacking in Inititive order will mean that they go before a lot of basic infantry where have an extra rank will mean 20 attacks. So all in all 60 strength 3 attacks. Euip them with shields as well and they become quite apt at surviving as well. I don't think making use of a third rank will favour them too much, that is unless the Volley fire applies to Repeater Crossbows, in which case yes it will be usefull.

[Darkspear]

I have not read the rulebook yet but only read the rumors. From what I understand even if you give Witch Elves a frontage of 10, those models in the subsequent ranks can only have 1 attack ever. Pls enlighten me if I am wrong.

If this is true, there is no point getting a horde bonus for our elite infantry.

Regarding the comment on crossbowmen, I agree and have commented in a few other threads. This is a strong center for the darkelf army.

[Falkman]

I have not read the rulebook yet but only read the rumors. From what I understand even if you give Witch Elves a frontage of 10, those models in the subsequent ranks can only have 1 attack ever. Pls enlighten me if I am wrong.

This is correct, models in supporting ranks only contribute one attack each (unless they're monstrous infantry, in which case they can contribute up to three attacks each).

[Tyrannus]

Ive now played 5 games with the new rules. I havent used the horde Rule, though have used it against me, i Just think our units are too expensive for it. Shadow magic on our wizards is a game changer and about the only way i was not just completely obliterated by the chaos player i faced, he still won though.

Ive played against wood elves twice, and they got hit pretty hard. but treekin are pretty icky, till you use shadow magic on them.

Last game was versus a horde night goblin army, was hilarious and fun, but in the end a fanatic blew up and paniced his general/lv4 wizard and 80 gobbos, winning me the game instead of making it close. He did use like 6/7 goblin heroes and two lords, plus a metric but load of gobbos.

All in all i think our guys need help, we have a very hard time taking the hits back. Im not too sure about the knights now, they havent done anything in the games ive played. Black guard are still winners but the ASF banner is only needed against high elves. Corsairs i continue to love and they pump out even more attacks now(I know not what people like). One game i played with hydra was pretty disgusting, its thunder stomp just adds even more brutality. Finally Dark Riders are still pretty much winners, though i might add a standard to them.

@Dark spear - anything not in base contact with the enemy is limited to one attack, ignoring special rules like frenzy and add. HW. Monstrous infantry are granted three attacks in the extra rank. Ninja'd

[Eumerin]

@Dark spear - anything not in base contact with the enemy is limited to one attack, ignoring special rules like frenzy and add. HW. Monstrous infantry are granted three attacks in the extra rank. Ninja'd

Frenzy doesn't add to the number of supporting attacks allowed, either, iirc.

[Falkman]

Which he actually said in the part you just quoted...

[Eumerin]

Which he actually said in the part you just quoted...

Did he? Now that I look at it more closely I notice that it can be read either as Frenzy and the additional Hand Weapon don't apply, or it can be read that Frenzy and the additional Hand Weapon are exceptions to the "one attack only" rule for supporting attacks.

My bad.

[Atropos]

I'll be using Witch Elves in this edition. I6? Yes, please. The same applies to my Black Guard which I've been using in 7th (and yes, I'll probably drop Hag Graef too). Spearelves are very nice now, and cheap. I don't think I'll use them in horde formation though, but all my infantry blocks (Spearelves, Witch Elves, Black Guard, even Crossbow-elves, and probably Executioners) will be backed up by either one or two cauldrons.

Glory to Khaine I shall say!

[Sebavin]

Now I am not a Dark Elf Player, but I see Corsairs as moving up as a really good defensive unit. At 10pts each give them Pistols and the Reaver dual pistols make them 10 wide and 3 deep at the min. Stand and shoot with 44 shots that hit on 4's or 5's then going first most likely with 31 attacks etc... Seems pretty mean to me could someone prove me wrong or shine some light on how good Corsairs are now since core is mandatory?

[southpaw]

RXBowmen, Spearmen, Witch Elves, CoB, and Shadow magic are all great in 8th. XBowmen might even be better as an anvil now then Spearmen. Spearmen get one extra rank of attacks, but RXBowmen get a round or two of shooting, S&S, and then the 5+/6++ save in combat with shields.

[Harorc Blueteef]

The more I think of it...
Executioners will actually be a fairly nasty unit as long as their unit is big enough (21 is probably the way to go)
15 hatred s6 attacks with killing blow? Yeah! Vs enemies with lower WS they will kill 11 the first turn and 8 (,3333) subsequent turns. I can see them be fairly nasty vs chaos knights etc as well!

[oldschoolmonk]

I definately agree with Executioners getting a boost. They will be lethal against knights, elite troops, and monsters that you might start seeing. +1 supportive attack on an executioner is worth far more than +1 supportive attack from any other unit in our army.

Warriors are an excellent choice as well. I can see using two units of 20 crossbowmen to hold down our flanks. They threaten cavalry with armor piercing, have the ranks and attacks to make excellent flankers too. Spear Warriors are better than corsairs and Steadfast much more often - 2 ranks of corsairs == 3 ranks for spearmen for attacks. I plan to run spear elves 4 wide and 6+ deep, supported by elites or hydras.

Hydras look pretty good. I'm feeling their regeneration is going to take a hit in the Errata, but I hope not. An excellent flanking unit, or just with combined charges. Won't break an enemy without a large warrior block supporting, but with it... 3d6 S5 hits (breath and stomp), 7 S5 attacks, then handlers - thats some dead anything.

Black guard look good. I see them taking a Standard of Murder now instead of Hag Graef. Probably best used in larger units if you want to win the second round of combat. I plan to use 18 with banner of murder.

I'm going to argue and say Witch Elves don't look good. Too many casualties from return attacks from anything tougher than state troops.

[Eumerin]

Witches will be good at going after your opponent's small semi-expensive units (light cavalry, small to mid-sized units of specialized infantry, missile troops, etc...) and monsters. The sheer volume of their poisoned attacks helps to make up for their low Strength versus the usual high Toughness value on monsters.

[Tyrannus]

Warriors are an excellent choice as well. I can see using two units of 20 crossbowmen to hold down our flanks. They threaten cavalry with armor piercing, have the ranks and attacks to make excellent flankers too. Spear Warriors are better than corsairs and Steadfast much more often - 2 ranks of corsairs == 3 ranks for spearmen for attacks. I plan to run spear elves 4 wide and 6+ deep, supported by elites or hydras.

Hydras look pretty good. I'm feeling their regeneration is going to take a hit in the Errata, but I hope not. An excellent flanking unit, or just with combined charges. Won't break an enemy without a large warrior block supporting, but with it... 3d6 S5 hits (breath and stomp), 7 S5 attacks, then handlers - thats some dead anything.

Might want to rethink the 4 wide 6+ deep on your elves, steadfast only works if your ranks are at least 5 wide, my spearelf unit of 29, 5x6 (plus sorc has been working wonders for me)

Also i Dont believe you can use breath weapon and its normal attacks in the same round. Either way you'll probably kill alot more with using the template then using the two dice. I killed 17 the other day against vampires. I dont think Regen will take a hit in the errata either. Probably status quo for hydra, plus thunderstomp.

[TheDarkDaff]

I can't help but feel that Witch Elves will be most effective when fileded in smallish units backed up by a cauldron. Taking Hellebron as your General plus a few Cauldron Hags with a few MSU Witch elves and a Exec block or 2 could be a fun army to give a go.

[Symrivven]

Witch elves will indeed be better, ld to restrain frenzy and most of the time striking first on I6 really helps them.

Executioners benefit more from the 2 deep rule than black guard. And with their I6 black guard will be less reliant on hag graef which might free this banner for executioners. This would make them especially dreadful to cavalry.

Couldron of blood will get a nice boost (if I get the rumours right).
The 2 hags add their attacks to the death hag resulting in 3(death hag)+4(2hags)+1(additional hand)+1(frenzy)= 9 attacks.
Two nice combinations would be 9 killing blow attacks with rerol 1's to wound, or 10-12 attacks at str enemies T+1.
with now 4 wounds and still the 4+ ward save the hag will not be killed as easily and with the new I rules she'l practically always strikes first.
Magic resistance 1 stacks with ward saves resulting in a 3++ save vs magic.
With the extra carnage in HtH the blessing from the altar become more important.

I still can't believe how more powerful our already strong hydra will become so I'm actually expecting some tweaks in the errata.

Being able to kill a general or Bsb will become more important as their benefits are greater so we might see an increase in killing blow assasins. though in general assassins will be weaker as they can no longer reliably clear their killzone.

And I can't wait to use the new crossbow men. 20 with shield and full command. With a last turn reform for 4 ranks, it will be almost as good as the city guard.

I'm not entirely sure about the CoK's I don't think I'll be fielding a lot of them. Stupidity got worse, fear got worse, no hatred on steeds and we can forget about first round breaking the opponent. Like someone else said the only knights that will remain truly viable are those that can still dish out some in the second turn, chaos knights, bloodknights and bretonians as they have decent ranks and thus can negate stalwart. We can still use knight together with other units and strike in a flank but unless we have 10 knights we wont be negating any ranks.

[undeadcatd]

Executioner cant take ASF banner unless errata ..
BG + murder banner better than EXE(with same point value) most of time in prolong fight
I dont think EXE will better than BG , they fail because limit to banner /champion cant take magic items.

[Tyrannus]

Dont see how stupidity got worse with the ability to reroll with bsb, and the fact they get immune to psych. Dont think it will make CoK's better but I dont think the rule took a hit. Though i think fear did and the breaking units on the first turn deifnately is gone.

I also dont think the Cauldron will be combined stats like warmachines as the BFRB labels the cauldron as a unique unit instead of a War machine.