This is misleading in that you have given both units a 45 point banner that only one unit gets anything out of.Originally Posted by Eltharil
It's like comparing a Khorne unit and a Tzeentch unit when both units have the Banner of Rage and concluding that the Mark of Tzeentch is flat out better.
But the result do support that AHW is not efficient...unless you regularly fight skinks/zombies in melee.
Last edited by scarvet; 20-10-2010 at 23:41.
Was it just me or this guy is implying something?
It's comparing two units with same cost and options except weapon and look wich is the best. This is not a problem as long as it was to make a choice and not going on with both units.This is misleading in that you have given both units a 45 point banner that only one unit gets anything out of.
It's like comparing a Khorne unit and a Tzeentch unit when both units have the Banner of Rage and concluding that the Mark of Tzeentch is flat out better.
Exactly. AHW are not the best choice but still enough efficient for a fun game with friends. In a tournament, Halberd are better cause it(s more efficient against several type of ennemy (not only zombie kind)
Right. And the banner you gave the units makes the comparison less meaningful than it would otherwise be. If you want to see which weapon is best, don't give the units a banner which negates one of the advantages of one weapon, while doing nothing negative to the other weapon.
lol. and its, what? 30 ish of them disagreeing vs. 100's of us forum users?Probably. Krump'em i say!
Theo
I agree with u. I was only showing a way to minimize the difference between both units for people loving their AHW models and wanting to play them against a friend.
Ive not actually built them all yet - all I current have assembled are 20 warriors with halberds and shields, and one command group. The rest are NIB and I asked the question as I dont want to build them and not use them if they are not worth taking...
These are Khornate Chaos Warriors Im taking, I want to maximize attack as much as possbile, so extra hand weapon. A group of 24 Khorne Warriors with command and with extra hand weapon would get 31 attacks as opposed to 24 from Halberds. The meta around here is t3 armies. Sides, I don't have the money to order halberds from GW.
While AHW is statistically worse than halberds, the margin is generally small enough for it to be a viable choice, for those who prefer the aesthetics.
So keep in mind, while it's not as effective as halberds, it's still pretty damned effective in most cases.
Meaning, you will not generally cripple yourself overly much going for AHW.
Great weapons on the other hand, well, S6 is nice sometimes, but it's an awful waste of I5.
/Joel - fielding both halberds and AHW for the variety.
"Perfect. It's everything a girl could hope for: Expensive, explosive and phallic."
-- Critical Maas
My Slaaneshi warriors, in PURPLE!
Armoured Might! The Temurian CXII project log
Sometimes I actually do stuff and occasionally even take pictures of the result.
Is there any way to give Killing Blow/Poisoned Attacks to a unit with AHWs? That, to me, would probably the best use of them... taking advantage of dice volume to get as many 6s as possible.
if you put Festus in the unit they get poisoned attacks... mmm sounds like something i should try sometimes. lets dig up my old dual wielders (from back in 6th edition dual wielding chosen chaos warriors of khorne with 4 attacks each gave nightmare's to my undead playing friend)
WoC, last updated: a long time ago
Festus seems better off in Marauders, they need that Regen more than the warriors, Espcially GW Khorne, no parry save to help them. Those who go off on flaming attacks making Festus worthless, I will say what I alwasy have. You are splitting hairs, the odds of ending up against a unit with flaming attacks are NOT THAT GREAT. There is one banner in the BRB that does that, and you can avoid units that have flaming attacks if need be.
Last edited by Hashulaman; 21-10-2010 at 08:25.
It's not just the banner, though. There are specific units/monsters with Flaming Attacks.
I can't recall any KB buff to the unit; Poison S4 attacks is still not great.
Actually, you are crippling yourself with AHW, especially with MoK thanks to support attack limited to one.
Then there is bonus efficiency, +1 attack have to go through one more roll compare to +1 strength AND offer a smaller bonus with MoK (from +50% to 33%).
On top of it you have to put a magic banner that almost get you 3 warriors.
How is that not shooting yourself in the foot.
BUT, I would not disagree from authentic point of view.
Was it just me or this guy is implying something?
Is said "not crippling yourself overly much". So, yes, you are shooting yourself in the foot by selecting a non-optimal option. Just not with a very big gun. So don't worry to much if you prefer AHW over halberds. It's a decent option, but not the best option. If you want the absolutely most curbstompingly best for your points, yay halberds. There's no disagreeing with that.
/Joel
"Perfect. It's everything a girl could hope for: Expensive, explosive and phallic."
-- Critical Maas
My Slaaneshi warriors, in PURPLE!
Armoured Might! The Temurian CXII project log
Sometimes I actually do stuff and occasionally even take pictures of the result.
Are AHW useful on any troops in any of the armies at all, or are they completely worthless? Or is it just worthless putting them on Chaos Warriors?
On an unrelated note, what equipment do you guys give Marauders with a Mark of Tzeentch? Sword/Shield?
Last edited by dsem; 21-10-2010 at 11:36.
Corsairs only other option is HW + a short ranged repeater crossbow that can't be used as AHW IIRC, so they're better off dual wielding IMHO.
Not really sure what other units are out there that have a choice whether to use two hand weapons or not, but the hard and fast rule is that Halberds > Two hand weapons. When it comes other options, like great weapons and handweapon+shield, the specific profile and formation of the the troop type comes into play more.
I'd say that Chaos ogres are probably always better off picking GW's over AHW's while it's more of an open question when it comes to Dragon ogres.
That is definitely the way to go if you want to max out the benefits of the MoT, but great weapon marauders are always a killer, and a 6+ ward save would mitigate the way the tend do die in droves. It depends whether you you want to use them as a hammer or an anvil.
/Joel
"Perfect. It's everything a girl could hope for: Expensive, explosive and phallic."
-- Critical Maas
My Slaaneshi warriors, in PURPLE!
Armoured Might! The Temurian CXII project log
Sometimes I actually do stuff and occasionally even take pictures of the result.
The better strength/armour piercing of a model the better extra hand weapons become. Minotaurs are Str 5 naturally so against T3, light armour and shield they wound on 2s and cancel armour by default. In this instance extra hand weapons are worthwhile (indeed better than great weapons).
Extra hand weapons get (relatively) better if you only use a single rank. Have your warrior units ever been taken down to under 10 models? Reforming to a single rank allows each warrior to make its full allotment of attacks. You may even want to do this against some hordes when you have 10 or more models left.
Finally xhw also have the potential to do more wounds than is even possible for halberd or shield warriors (even if this rarely happens in practice).
Just thought of another: xhws aren't so bad in assults either as you don't have to worry about the supporting attacks rule hamstringing you.
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little bit of topic: say a unit of khorne warriors 6 wide with 3 ranks (18 strong) assult a building. the rules say that you pick 10 models who will enter the building and may attack. how are support attacks worked out here?
do you get 6*3 attacks +6 OR 10*3 attacks???
WoC, last updated: a long time ago
10 models get to attack, they have 3 attacks each. Do the math!(And remember any champion you have!)
Theo
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