Well I had my Warriors painted nurgle style so will give them MoN again, but swaping HW for halberds.
Mostly because now you can't use both ward and regenerate; where I try to get regen on my warriors the ward save is no use anyway.
Well I had my Warriors painted nurgle style so will give them MoN again, but swaping HW for halberds.
Mostly because now you can't use both ward and regenerate; where I try to get regen on my warriors the ward save is no use anyway.
Last edited by CmdrLaw; 11-07-2010 at 20:45.
Great write up Kerill! Just a note on the magic lores: You copy-pasted the lore of death and every lore says it's a character sniping lore.
I didn't realize all of the benefits of the Hellcannon this edition. I need to get at least one. Pricing always prevented me from getting one in the past, but it seems like Chaos finally has a non-magic ranged option.
Also, S10 d6 wounds can be really nice against Stegadons and the like.
MoN is probably the best choice for any unit that is going to have the banner of rage. If I'm not mistaken, frenzied troops don't get the +6 ward save for the parry bonus (please correct me if I'm wrong) so it would be a good idea to maximize their protection against shooting by taking the MoN. Large blocks of warriors could also benefit from MoN, although statistically I thought that the +6 ward save offers more protection (again I could wrong). This edition looks like MoK and MoT are the premier marks, which is a tragedy since I love Slaanesh and have tons of models painted purple.
Exelent work Kerill, very very usefull and well written and thanks for sharing your views :-) it was rather helpful to be honest. I know for sure now that i have to field hellcannonS and not just hellcannoN.
One thing i thought about regarding the issue on which item to chose, the puppet or blood of tzeentch, is that if you field a hellcannon the blood of tz cant protect your caster from the miscast table, since a misfire can potentially force all casters to roll a miscast. This may not happen very often, but some of us are going to field more then one hellcanon making it more likely to happen. So for all the hellcannon-lovers the puppet may be the best choice after all.
Last edited by Zangor; 11-07-2010 at 21:32.
Fantastic work, Kerill. I agree with pretty much what you have said with regards each unit.
I am having my first 8th edition game this week, against an Empire army, and fully intend to try out my perception of a Tzeentchian deathstar unit.....23 MoT Chosen with Additional Hand Weapons, Full Command (Favour of the Gods and either Rapturous Standard or Rage Banner), led by my Sorcerer Lvl4 MoT with Blood of Tzeentch, Talisman of Preservation, Ironcurse Icon and Bronze Armour.
Massivley expensive unit, that I'd only use in 3000pts+ games, but I think it could be seriously nasty against anything remotely Horde-like.
What are people's thoughts about putting a MoT BSB on a Disk for that extra bit of mobile LD support? I'll give him the Golden Eye of Tzeentch and the Book of Secrets.
Fantasy
- Warriors of Tzeentch (5000pts) - High Elves of Saphery (4000pts) - Waaagh Snagla (1500pts) Forest Goblin Spiders -
40, 000
- Blood Angels Dante-Wing (2500pts) - Dark Angels Ravenwing (1500pts) -
LINKS: Trade Thread - eBay Auctions
I take it your going to be praying for the Ward save on the eye of the gods then?
My standard lord:
Sorcerer lord, L4, MoT, Disc, Third Eye of Tz, Stream of Corruption, Blood of Tz, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation.
1+/3++; miscast protection from reroll; 2d6 s3 AP breathweapon to take out a soft unit like a warmachine; ability to steal spells.
Optional wizard sidekick to guarantee gateway:
Sorcerer, L2, MoT, Disc, Golden Eye of Tz, Power Familiar (or a scroll), Conjoined Humunculus.
+1 PD; 3+/3++ against missiles; ability to team up together.
Problem is, you really want Gateway on the sorcerer lord...
BSB build:
Exalted, MoT, shield, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone(, Soporific Musk).
Inexpensive; 2+ rerollable/5++ (parry); practically immune to fire. Tough as nails against anything with S<5. Avoid monsters and characters you need to challenge. Put him in a decently sized Warrior unit.
This one's tricky, because a mount makes him lose LoS! and parry, and it displaces another warrior, so I don't know if that's worth it. Giving the warrior unit the Blasted Standard would mitigate the exposure to warmachines, but it may still not be enough. I think it's absolutely vital that the BSB is geared defensively, because he's going to get targeted a lot, but if you want a more offensive BSB, you can try:
Exalted, MoK, Jugger, Flail, Helm of Many Eyes, Dawnstone.
1+ rerollable AS; 5A S7 rerolling to hit; jugger.
Last edited by Witchblade; 12-07-2010 at 01:21.
I just had a very, very interesting idea pop into my head about the mark of nurgle. '
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...91#post4812491
its an intresting point- and considering now that nurgle is pritty weak anyway it might give it an advatageOriginally Posted by Urdokadin
I'm still not sure weather I'm going to be going back to empire for the 8th, or keeping with WOC- considering I've not seen the book yet I think my list is going to be something allong the lines of
level 4 with power familiar and homulus lore of fire
level 2 with puppet lore of fire
BSB with 4+ ward save item and ignore 1st hit shield
50 marrauders with flails and full command (possibly khone)
25 marrauders with hw/shield/light amour and full command (possibly nurgle/tzentch depending on fluff)
5 marrauder horsmen with thorwing axes
5 dogs
(hopefully that should be enough- not worked on maths yet)
6 ogers with great weapons and musician
5 knights of nurgle with rage banner
Many thanks for the unit write-ups Kerill, as a new to WoC (and Fantasy in general) player, it's extremely useful. Only thing that confused me was the 2nd negative point for the Hellcannon, it seems to be talking about a mage exploding.
I have been considering the Palanquin as a BSB mount due to loving the model and it being infantry and therefore getting a LOS! roll in a unit of warriors or marauders. Am i crazy, or is it not a bad idea?
I'll catch up with the previous comments later.
I tried out my first 8th ed game yesterday, 1k. I took a unit of 50 Slaanesh marauders (Sh, LA, FC) with Festus in the unit. It was ferocious! I'll have to post up some pictures of a charge we felt a bit daft (wheeling a 10 wide unit after a charge seems to be a bit incredible).
I took 5 Trolls, Warshrine, 10 Marauder horses. They did nothing all game. Just 300 points of Marauders dominating with Festus.
Did Festus hold up alright? tend to use him myself but he seems quite vunerable to return hits, especially if your big unit is doing all the work.
I thought the Hellcannon used the small blast template? With your numbers, it looks like you're basing the calcs on the large one??? I could be wrong - haven't got access to the BRB at the mo. I usually am wrong!
EDIT: Great write up by the way Kerill. Looking forward to the Mono-themed army Tactica. Thinking of going Nurgle myself.
Last edited by sayles78; 12-07-2010 at 10:09.
Why so serious?
You are right, it uses the small template. Nevertheless, you can hit that many models with the small one when you include partial hits (see the attached graphic). I even managed to hit 22 models
Greetings
Eta
Who loves Orks? - the greenest thread on Warseer!
Lore of Fire - not sure yet. I tend to think Shadow and Fire are both better. However, there are some good spells in there. TBH I think I'd go for Lore of Tzeentch if I just wanted a straight damage-dealing lore. Flickering fire, Treason, and of course Gateway cast on a 10+ on the dice ... oh yeah!
Shame you haven't got any actual warriors in there, but the big lumps of marauders should work.
It's a great idea, and obviously exactly why GW made the Palanquin infantry. I just wonder whether they intend to bring out a Palanquin model in the rumoured wave release for WoC, as the lack of model is a big reason nobody fielded one in 7th.
No, he's using the small blast. Remember that with no guess ranges you will always place the template perfectly (barring scatter, of course), and with no partials, you'll be hitting A LOT of models.
[Edit - ninja-ed by Eta who makes the point better than me]
Awaiting a worthy sig since 2008
I think that Treason, with all the big infantry blocks, can be a great spell!
Jesus! Thats scary... imagine what the big f*%$er would do!You are right, it uses the small template. Nevertheless, you can hit that many models with the small one when you include partial hits (see the attached graphic). I even managed to hit 22 models
Greetings
Eta
Thanks for putting that one to bed.
Why so serious?
You don't need to pray. With two war shrines and favor of the god's, your chosen should have it, statistically, by turn 2.
well the plan is to take no tzzentch as there is aleready a mono tzzenctch player at the club and the fact I hate gateway- though at least you don't need to throw 5 dice at it this editon- might wait and see what other people bring
its also good to hear about festus- might re-look in to him and my all nurgle list- casting mass bubos might be fun (as its the basic spell, so more that one wizzard can have it)- might go with a level 4 of nurgle, festus and a BSB instead and two big blocks of marrauders and hope to get regen on them both (1 from festus) that way I don't need the Tzzeench ward save?
in fact at 2000 points lets go with
level 4 of nurgle with the puppet and 5+ ward save item (hoping for the regen spell)
festus
BSB with the 4+ ward save item and mark of nurgle- and great weapon
2x40 marrauders with GWs, light armour and shield and mark of nurgle
5 horsemen with throwing axes and musician
5 dogs
5 knights of nurgle with rage banner
6 ogers with great weapons
I've not the maths but it sounds nasty- hope to get the regeneration spell on the level 4, cast that on the non festus marrauders and then ground out the win- either going 10x4 or 7x5 (+5) depending on what I'm facing- either hoard or other- and with either a 6+/5+ or a 6+/4+ I should be good for defending- unless they cause flaming
mean while the knights and ogers go on the flanks and crush things
Any thoughts on the Lore of Shadow?
The core spell seems quite useful to protect the guys from shooting early on, then boost their combat later, reducing enemy WS (which can drop someone drop someone below 5 for Warriors or 4 for Marauders increasing the killiness there).
The question is how to use the secondary ability well, would putting him on a steed make him vulnerable to shooting for the swap ability going into an infantry block (more likely this edition).
What defences would you put on one? That said, the Disc hero with no protection apart from armour and the Tzeentch Mark didn't die that often, though could be hidden more easily last edition.
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