WOC Tactica 8th edition Armylist Thread

[Kerill]

Fantasy Army: WoC

As per the WOC tactica here:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266118

This is a thread for posting people's initial ideas for 8th edition lists and the rationale behind their choices. I'll kick off with mine:

2250 Points


Mindwarper, Sorceror Lord of Tzeentch, level 4, DISK, blood of Tzeentch, 4+ ward talisman (so 3+ ward), charmed shield (2+ save, 2+ ignore first hit), conjoined homunculus, stream of corruption, biting blade 435 points

(will be carrying on the fluff from 7th:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190660 )

17 Chaos Warriors, halberds, shields, Full command: banner of rage

joined by:

Exalted of Tzeentch, bsb, book of secrets, power familiar , shield 200 points
- Dropped him off the disk to save points and because the golden eye doesn't help much against magic. In 7th he got killed a lot and with death and metal both having default spells to kill him decided he needed a bit more protection. Also might need him to lead the trolls in an emergency which he can't do on a disk. Only a 3+ save and 6+ ward which is pretty poor but I didn't want to have to buy another caster. Would love to give him the 3rd eye but can't find the 25 points.

Will take death for the character sniping spell.

30 Khorne Marauders, full command

15 Tzeentch Warriors, shields, FC: rapturous standard

6 Trolls 270
- definitely want to test these big boys

3* 5 hounds 90

2* Hellcannon 410

The three units of infantry form the main battleline, anchored by a hellcannon on each side. One hellcannon will, together with the trolls and disk rider, form the flanking force for the army.

Points: 2249
Models: 89
Average PD: 8.1666
Average DD: 5.1666

Spellcasting on an average roll:

Gateway (3 dice)
Pandemonium (1/2 dice)
Treason (1/2 dice)
Flickering fire (1 die)
(ideal spell selection)

Default death spell on 2/3 dice (+2 to cast) (2 dice at 12" range, might skip it if I need the diece for the level 4)

[captainAurelius]

Nice Kerill. Good work in the 8th tactica thread. Your list is pretty conventional on the whole, utilising some of the new "it" choices. The exalted is a bit different though, not what I would have expected after the write up on defending your BSB in your tactica posts.

I'll throw my hat in with a 2000pts I made last night after reading your articles, it is much the same, but a couple of different choices that I think will prove popular. Onwards:

2000 Points

Socerer Lord, lvl 4, MoT, Disc, BoT, Golden Eye, Enchanted Shield
- 380

Exalted, BSB, stone of luck, shield
- 145

Exalted, MoK, Juggernaut, Halberd, stream of corruption, charmed shield
- 204

18 Chaos Warriors, shields, halberds, MoK, musician, standard
-354

26 Chaos Marauders, GW, MoK, musician, standard (Attach BSB)
-172

6 Chaos Knights, MoK
-270

6 Trolls
- 270

Hellcannon
- 205


Total 2000 points

Disc Rider is fairly standard, BSB is equipped for budget defence and Juggernaut is going solo; stream of corruption is for overkilling champions, shield for eating cannonballs; this chap might surprise the odd infantry block. Will hide him behind the Trolls for general's leadership buff. Will be running marauders 6x4 plus extras, couldn't find the points for a 30 man unit.

This would be my 8th Edition WoC list if I were to play tomorrow. Perhaps some of the assumptions will change in time but it feels in line with the current thinking.

I'd be interested to see some devious combos in a 3000 point list if anyone would step up.

[Morthak]

@ Kerill- Again, thanks for the tactica, too bad you ran out of characters so fast, but we can manage.
Are you sure about the book and power familar on the BSB? Even a 3+ save can easily be dealt with. Why don't you consider Call to Glory? It has become much better since we use more infantry and because you can keep it up while casting. He can still be removed any time you like and might help out your BSB against challenges when the champion has already been pummeled to death. Make Way! also made this spell more worthwile.
A really tough list, it's quite similar to my first setup for 2200pts

@captainAurelius- are you sure about the exalted with a greatweapon? You could get a Halberd and something for 5pts.

Here my first 1500pts for the 8th edition. I'm going to try it tomorrow.

Chaos Lord of Khorne, Talisman of Preservation, Crown of Command, Halberd, Juggernaut, Stream of Corruption

Joins:
14 Warriors of Chaos, Full Command, Halberds and Shields, Banner of Rage

-They used to be Khorne and have Banner of Dicipline, but I found out my Lord wouldn't be able to confer it's leadership. It's not the most maxed out combination, the warriors can do without him. But I couldn't, or wouldn't, fit in a reasonably maxed out lvl2 and BSB. He might do just fine, Ld9 Stubborn is important as they can still run away being frenzied.

Exalted Champion of Tzeentch, Bronze Armour of Zhrakk, Sword of Might, Ironcurse Icon, Luckstone, Shield.

Joins:

30 Marauders of Tzeentch, Full Command, Light Armour and Shields

- A nice, big block of indomitable marauders, with the nice 5+ ward against warmachines. I think I canned the BSB in well enough.

5 Warhounds

4 Chaos Trolls

Hellcannon

I'll be posting my 2200pts list later on.

Morthak

[captainAurelius]

Thanks for the spot, I'm still in 7.5 mode.
List Amended.

[sayles78]

My first attempt at 8th WoC list. Not quite 2k points yet, but that is the benchmark points limit.


HERO: Chaos Sorcerer of Tzeentch Points: 206
Mark of Tzeentch, Lvl 2 Wizard, Barded Steed, Charmed Shield, Golden Eye of Tzeentch, Spell Familiar, Biting Blade
(Riding alone for freedom of movement)

HERO: Chaos Sorcerer of Nurgle Points: 175
Mark of Nurgle, Level 2 Wizard, Infernal Puppet
(In the Warriors of Nurgle block)

CORE: Chaos Warriors Points: 270
15 Warriors, Shields, Musician, Champion, Standard Bearer

CORE: Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch Points: 278
15 Warriors, Mark of Tzeentch, Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer

CORE: Chaos Warriors of Nurgle Points: 300
15 Warriors, Mark of Nurgle, Shields, Musician, Champion, Standard Bearer

CORE: Marauder Horsemen Points: 180
10 Marauder Horsemen, Shields, Spears, Musician, Chief, Standard Bearer

SPECIAL: Chaos Knights Points: 285
5 Knights, Musician, Champion, Standard Bearer, Banner of Rage

RARE: Hellcannon of Chaos Points: 205


So, thats 1899 points. Trying to work out where to get points from to run a budget BSB in the Warriors with no mark.

As I said, my first attempt at a list, and I'm pleased with how it feels and how i think it will preform.... but PLEASE give me your comments! You guys are much more experienced than me - I haven't played WFB since 6th. Any suggestion on where to get the few extra points needed for the BSB would be awesome!

Also, looking for somewhere to steel a few more points to put Mark of Nurgle on my Marauder Horsemen...

Thanks,

Sayles

[teleologica]

Just a thought for those (like me) agonising over the all-important BSB build. Personally I really like the idea of an Exalted with Book and Power Familiar - played it with that in 7th, and will continue in 8th. However, how about dropping the familiar for Enchanted Shield and Necrotic Phylactery. I can see the latter being much more useful in 8th due to the inevitable magic sniping of BSBs we'll all be engaging in. It makes him immune to poison for starters - most useful on a Disc BSB. He's also immune to Lores of Death and Nurgle, so no buboe sniping and none of the death snipe spells worry him. He also auto-passes all stat tests (bar Ld, which he re-rolls ) so the scary non-death spells which rely on passing Init - or whatever - or die also do nothing. And he's still got points for the enchanted shield, so 2+/5++ in combat (or 1+/6++ on a horse or disc).

[Hashulaman]

Hi, this is probably my first post here as I'm relativly new here. I am working on a 2250 list, this is what I have so far.

Sorcerer Lord, MoT, level 4, 3rd Eye, Enchanted Shield, Armor of Destiny, Infernal Puppet, Disc

Exhaulted Hero, BSB, EHW, MoT, Talisman of Preservation, Stream of Corruption

Chaos Sorcerer(lore of Shadow), level 2, Spell Familiar, Talisman of Endurance


18 Chaos Warriors, MoT, Shields, Full command

18 Chaos Warriors, MoT, Shields, Full command

18 Chaos Warriors, MoT, Shields, Full command, Blasted Standard
(BSB in this unit)


Hellcannon




I have 182 points to spare, any thoughts on what i should use them? As well as what anyone thinks of what i have so far. As far as The Stream being on the BsB and not the Sorcerer Lord, I'm not keen on getting my sorc lord in Close Combat. I never seen Sorc lords as good fighters, I am willing to try something new if it would be that good.

[Zaustus]

Here's the 2250 list I used this last weekend. Several of the choices are "sub-optimal" from a pure gaming perspective, but I'm going for a Tzeentch theme:

Sorcerer Lord, Level 4 (Shadows), Crown of Everlasting Conquest, Blood of Tzeentch, Enchanted Shield, Ironcurse Icon, Conjoined Homunculus - 390

Exalted Hero, Tzeentch, BSB, Talisman of Preservation, Warrior Bane, shield, Stream of Corruption - 220

50 Marauders, Tzeentch, great weapons, full command - 290
23 Chaos Warriors, Tzeentch, shields, full command, Standard of Discipline - 433 (I still think the general can provide his leadership to other units)
18 Chaos Warriors, Tzeentch, halberds, shields, musician, standard, Banner of Rage - 379

6 Chaos Knights, Tzeentch, musician, standard, Blasted Standard - 330

Hellcannon - 205


We're talking about going up to 2500 as our standard game size, and I'm still mulling over options for the extra 250 points. I'm leaning toward either a Tzeentch level 2 on a disc, or a Tzeentch Exalted with Book of Secrets, Power Familiar and Third Eye. If I take the latter route, perhaps I should change the Lord to Tzeentch? It'd fit a little better with the theme, although I really liked having a L4 Shadow Lord in the game I played.

[Kerill]

@Captain Aurelius, I copied and pasted the wrong list bsb will be with the (14) Tzeentch warriors for a 3+ 5+. Not great but I can always move him around a bit. Agonised for a while before I dropped the collar of Khorne for the power familiar, but I really wanted blood of Tzeentch

I'd be worried for your bsb and jugger hero though with no LOS roll. If the bsb is with the knights I'd boost them to 6 at least to take the first cannon ball.

@Sayles, I'd definitely go for a sorceror lord rather than a sorceror, and I'd cut the marauder horsemen down to get some banners for the chaos warriors. Not sure about running your sorceror free on a chaos steed though, even with a 4+ LOS from nearby horsemen (can't get LOS from the knights I think since they have a champion and thus would need to be 6 strong). Disk is hard to resist

@Morthak, interesting list, not a fan of magic then?

@ Hashulaman

I've answered your fighty sorceror question in the tactica. At the minute your sorceror lord is illegal since he has 2 magic armours.

Stream of corruption is fine on the bsb and adds to his active defence, I prefer it on the disk rider since it gives more options. I'd give the bsb a halberd rather than an a/hw though, statistically more useful.

You need more deployment drops and harassers- hounds are always good at 30 points a unit. I'd also find it hard to resist the banner of rage on one of those warrior units (and give them halberds).

@Zaustus. Looks good, again I'd want more deployment drops though.

[Gambles]

Here is an army I am working on, the idea is a balanced list with all 4 Chaos gods represented with a unit "taking orders" from their hero or lord...many of the choices reflect models I own and feel pressed to make use of.

2250 Points

Sorceror Lord of Tzeentch, level 4, disc, Enchanted Shield, Power Familiar, Phylactery. 360

10 Tzeentch Chosen, FC, GW, Favor of the Gods 275

Festus 185
joining:
20 Nurgle Warriors FC, Halberds, Banner of Rage 435

Khorne Hero, GW, BSB, Fury of the Blood God, Blasted Standard. 198
joining:
50 Khorne Marauders, FC, GW, 300

Slannesh Hero, steed, halberd 144 (thinking he might be more useful as a sorc... getting off Ecstatic Seizures vs a horde would be really cool, or more buffage. I do like the idea of such a fast charger picking off loners though)

Slaanesh Chaos Warshrine 140 (thinking of dropping for a chariot, or marauder horsemen)

Hellcannon 205

Total 2242

So many big weapons and no shields... but the Khorne Horde looks like an 8th Ed favorite, I am pretty sure the Nurgle Warriors have enough staying power with the regeneration and that the str of the halberd outweighs the extra poisoned attacks from extra hand weapons, and the Tzeentch chosen are simply modeled that way and I don't want to convert them.

I am not sure about my BSB having a magic standard and Fury of the Blood God. I've read it's technically okay, but I don't feel it's worth arguing.

Please let me know what you think.

[Hashulaman]

Kerill: Fair enough, I misread the section where it said you can have one armor and one shield, and thought it said I could have one magic shield and one magic armor, my apologies. If that is the case, Im dumping the enchanted shield as I will take a 3++ ward that cannot be modified over a 2+ armor. Its rather annoying as I already have the puppet for an arcane item and cant find where to spend the extra 15 points. Maybe i can give him the homunculus and just stay withing BSB range for the re rolls.

As for the BSB, Im using the old Chaos undevided model. The axe he is holding, I don't know if it could count as a halberd, It is sizeable enough to be a great weapon though.

[Wicked_fool]

Hey Guys,

With the new 8e i'm starting a new army and guess what, it's WoC. I've created two lists, both quite similar but don't know which one to take.

First List:
LORD
Sorcerer Lord, LVL4, Disk,MoTzeentch, 4+ WS item, Blood of T, charmed shield, biting blade, conjoined Homuncles

HERO
Exalted Champion, BSB, MoTzeentch, Shield, Book of Secrets, Power Familiar, Third Eye of Tzeentch

Core
30 Marauders, Flail, MoKhorne, FC

20 Warriors, MoTzeentch, Shield, FC, Raptourus Standard

3* 5 Hounds

SPECIAL
12 Chosen, Halberd, Shield, FC, Banner of Rage, Favour of the Gods

RARE
Hellcannon
Warshrine, MoTzeentch

Total: 2250

Second List:
LORD
Sorcerer Lord, LVL4, Disk,MoTzeentch, 4+ WS item, Blood of T, charmed shield, biting blade, conjoined Homuncles

HERO
Exalted Champion, BSB, MoTzeentch, Shield, Book of Secrets, Power Familiar, Third Eye of Tzeentch

Core
30 Marauders, Flail, MoKhorne, FC

15 Warriors, MoTzeentch, Shield, FC, Raptourus Standard

17 Warriors, MoNurgle, Halberd, SHield, FC, Banner of Rage

3* 5 Hounds

SPECIAL

RARE
Hellcannon
Warshrine, MoTzeentch

Total: 2212

So which one will perform better and is funnier to play?

[captainAurelius]

Kerill: The BSB is in with the marauders and the juggernaut is either hiding behind terrain or possibly even the trolls. I play him fairly quietly in the first few turns as he tends to do better later in the game. I prefer him swinging combats instead of fighting them on his own. I feel the BSB is a little vulnerable. In his 2500point incarnation he is far more secure. Taking some of the points from teleologica he would look like this:

Exalted, BSB, shield, steed, MoT, 5+ Ward save item, helm of luck, necrotic phylactery, - 216
(So 4+ ward, first fail reroll 1+ AS, immune to lore of death, nurgle and poison, passes all characterisitics checks bar ld)

Stream of Corruption looks a good option too with the added emphasis on defending this chap.


The Chaos Dwarfs must have opened an artillery school in the wastes looking at everyones lists!

[Morthak]

@ Kerill: Well I am, but I couldn't fit in a lvl2, and didn't think of adding a sorcerer lord. While the army did work out quite well, the dark elf player had a lvl4 with lore of metal that just spammed away. My poor lord got turned into gold... A hydra quickly flanked the marauders, and stupid as I was, I moved my BSB to face him. It ended pretty quickly with his horde unit of spearmen charging in. The Hellcannon proved it's worth by almost killing the whole unit on it's own with shooring and combat combined.

@ Gambles: You have a very small army, but don't take another sorcerer, you'll need all the power dice you can spare.

@ Wicked_Fool: the setup is great, but because of the larger numbers, I'd go for option number two. Chosen die just as easily as warriors and every loss for them is a loss in combatpower.

@ captainAurelius: Putting him on a steed is possibly even more dangerous than not. But other than that he probably is the most tough exalted you can make, unless you go for the 3+ ward, but even then, I'm not sure.


My 2500pts list I used today, with good results.

Kologarn, Sorcerer Lord of Tzeentch
Disc of Tzeentch, Charmed Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Blood of Tzeentch, Biting Blade, Third Eye of Tzeentch, Conjoined Homonculus

Throgg

Exalted Champion of Tzeentch, Berzerker Sword (the rulebook one...), Talisman of Endurance, Stream of Corruption, Shield.

18 Warriors of Chaos, Full Command, Halberds and Shields, Banner of Rage

40 Marauders of Khorne, GW, FC

5 Marauder Horsemen of Slaanesh, flails

5 Chaos Trolls

6 Knights of Khorne, Banner, Banner of Eternal Flame

Hellcannon
Hellcannon


Even though the cannons are a liability, they can do great stuff when needed. They are an auto-include for each chaos army.

,Morthak

[Roark]

@ Kerill: Your disk Lord is going to have to babysit those Trolls, mate. Seems VERY restrictive, when he should be zipping around doing what he likes... And I know it's already been mentioned, but that BSB is quite vulnerable...

Love the trolls. I'm going to do that for sure.

[Alexander Keith]

2.5k TZC/Undivided

Characters

200 Exalhted, BSB, MoTzc, Collar of Khrone, Iron Curse Icon, Dragon Helm, shield.

210 Chaos Sorcerer, MoTzc, 2nd level, Blood of Tzc, Spell Shield, Stream of Corruption.

190 Chaos Sorcerer of Death, 2nd level, Dispel Scroll, Conjoined Homunculus, Enchanted Shield, and Necrotic Phlactery

600= 24%

Core

(388) 19- Warriors of Chaos, MoTzc, Shields, Standard, Musician, Blasted Standard

(208) 28- Marauders of Chaos, MoTzc, Shields, Light Armour, Full Command

(80) 5- Marauder Horsemen, Light Armour, Spears, Throwing Spears

(80) 5- Marauder Horsemen, Light Armour, Spears, Throwing Spears

(30) 5- Chaos Hounds

(30) 5- Chaos Hounds

816= 33%

Special

(270) 6- Chaos Trolls

(200) 5- Chaos Knights

(200) 5- Chaos Knights

670= 27%

Rare

(205) Hellcannon

(205) Hellcannon

410= 16%

My three large units all have good protection in combat, vs shooting, and vs magic.

The Trolls have +4 regen of course...

The Marauders are joined by the BSB and Death Sorcerer...they have a 5+ armour save and 5+ ward save in combat against most attacks. They have a 4+ ward vs magic, and 5+ ward vs warmachines...and of course the 5+ armour save vs other shooting.

The Warriors have a 3+ armour save, and 5+ ward save in combat. A 3+ armour save and 4+ ward save vs shooting. And they also have a 5+ ward vs magic when joined by the Tzc Sorcerer.

My characters all have good saves as well...

The BSB has a 2+ Armour save and a 5+ ward in combat...and a 3+ ward vs sniping magic

The Death Sorcerer and general has a +2 Armour save and is immune to death and Nurgle sniping spells thanks to Necrotic Phylactery.

Lastly the Sorcerer of Tzc has a 3+ armour save, 5+ ward save in combat and a 5+ ward versus sniping spells.

My hope is while I advance on the opponent he should be weakened by the cannons and magic while I hopefully reach combat mostly intact.

Please Comment: I need all the help I can get!
1) Do you think the list can work without the Sorcerer Lord on Disk?

2) Do you think I've invested to much in shooting/magic protection for my troops? 125pts including the marks?

[Kerill]

@ Kerill: Your disk Lord is going to have to babysit those Trolls, mate. Seems VERY restrictive, when he should be zipping around doing what he likes... And I know it's already been mentioned, but that BSB is quite vulnerable...

Love the trolls. I'm going to do that for sure.

He is indeed at the minute, but I'd be using the troll shield for the first turn or two anway- even with the 3+ ward I'd like the extra protection. Throgg will be leading the trolls after a few games (I added him to the army fluff a while back but need to build it up a bit before I use him).

Hopefully I'll get a game or two next weekend and I'll resurrect my battle report thread.

[sayles78]

@Sayles, I'd definitely go for a sorceror lord rather than a sorceror, and I'd cut the marauder horsemen down to get some banners for the chaos warriors. Not sure about running your sorceror free on a chaos steed though, even with a 4+ LOS from nearby horsemen (can't get LOS from the knights I think since they have a champion and thus would need to be 6 strong). Disk is hard to resist

Done. My Sorc is now level 4.

Is a Disc that much better than a steed? The steed is barded, and thus improves my saving throw by 1. The disc allows slightly faster movement (3" or 6" march), but other than that, there is no real difference except terrain issues (which we dont have a lot of). Plus, there are spells in the game that affect flyers only, or do not allow flying, and the disc only has a move of 1. Also, like you said, I can get LOS from my marauder horsemen. There seems to be more positives than negatives to having him on a steed than on a disc to me.

I see a lot of people with these dudes on a disc, and I did at first too, but I quickly changed my mind when I saw the sorcerer on Chaos Steed model in the COLLECTORS section of the GW website. I love that model!!!

The model in question: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ca...Id=prod1130362

I'm struggling to find spare points for any banners for warriors, but have put banner of rage on my Knights for some extra punch. I am playing against VC's, so I dont even see any Banners that are essential anyway. Have I overlooked some?

Sayles

[captainAurelius]

Being mounted improves your AS by 1. Being mounted on a barded steed improves it by 2.

Flyers can move 10 now if they don't make a fly move.

I have that model too. I fell out of love with it after a few games because I didn't like the fact he is side on. Looks silly when he's in a unit or always facing the wrong way.

Sayles can we have a revised list so we can help you with getting some banners? Your champions in the cavalry units seem the most obvious choice to drop, especially in the knights.

[Alexander Keith]

@ sayles78 and captainAurelius... I'd go with the horse, if that's what you really want...six inches of speed is a lot though...but I suppose you could be hiding the character behind the trolls, and beside the horsemen...meaning you get protection from the trolls, and a +4 LOS roll from the horsemen...or +2 if your in the unit...sounds like a pretty good idea really...but you can get the LOS roll with a disk too?