And they go in the fast attack, so just take both Reavers and Ravagers :P
And they go in the fast attack, so just take both Reavers and Ravagers :P
We never have enough anti-tank :-) IMHO, Heat Lances are important to be able to kill AV12 tanks. 4 Heat Lances in 2 Reavers squads bring a nice, somewhat reliable (inside melta-range) anti-tank option, and the anti-infantery abilities are a nice bonus.Originally Posted by bigbear bailey
No, we don't. We used to with our old book, but with general points increases across the board on several things, we cannot field as many lances as we used to.
Ravagers are the undisputed champions of Lance efficiency, but you're tying your tank pop up in a maximum of three platforms that are extremely easy to kill. Additional tank pop is available elsewhere, but at a premium. 25 point Lances hurt.
Bikes also go where you need them. A 36" Turbo Boost gets them where they need to be. On the way, they can chop down an infantry unit. Once there, they can reliably target and destroy a tank. After that, they die, glorious mission accomplished. Or, they don't and they zoom off to do it again.
I'd be beyond flabbergasted if you can't find a use for AP1 Melta Lance weapons on Jetbike platforms in any DE list. Most armies would kill for our Reavers.
The Dark City, Wherein I Talk Dark Eldar Tactics And Continue To Write Way Too Much
Daemons Daemons Daemons!
Now Playing: Dark Eldar, Daemons, Trollbloods, Protectorate of Menoth
Allow me, herein, to praise the Shattershard.
A lot of people are taking Haemonculi with liquifiers. It's a pretty good selection in a raider. But generally speaking, the squad they're with already has a liquifier. Why not add something a bit more... Exotic?
I mean, there's a few reasons why not. The Shattershard is one use - but how many times do you fire those template weapons in a single game, anyway? The Shattershard is more expensive - but only slightly. And the Shattershard offers no improvement against your most common target, the MEQ, offerring the same kill rate as a liquifier.
Ah, but for those handful of points, you gain some truly startling benefits against increasingly common targets... The Shattershard allows no saves of any kind, ever. Not armor, not invulnerable, not FNP, you don't even get multiple wounds against it, even with eternal warrior. That's certainly gonna count for a few extra kills from time to time, and models which will tend to shrug off the liquifier can still be utterly removed from play by the 'shard.
Blood Angels with their FNP cups surviving your liquifiers? Try a Shattershard. Plague stuff shrugging it off? Try a Shattershard. (Nurglings? Oh, hell yes.) Assault terminators with storm shields? Well, the Shattershard can take down a third of its hits, best have a good plan for the remainder of course... And so on. Well worth the minimal points difference, IMO.
Hey, guys. I posted a small friendly game list..
Comments welcome.
I feel the DL's in the squad are 50(!) points spent on wasting the effectiveness of the 18-36 splinter shots (6-12 wounds average before saves on anything with a T value) on the rest of the squad. Much better to spend less than half the DL's cost on splinter cannons adding 8-12 more shots to the squad (~2-4 more pre-save wounds) and allowing the squad a modest amount of firepower, even on the move.
I tend to follow a craftworld eldar line of thought when it comes to DE, in that units should stick to a specialty; providing overwhelming effectiveness in whatever it is they do. A 20-man warrior horde doesn't need darklances if it's supported by a blaster trueborn venom squad. Wyches and incubi are symbiotic as well, multiple squads of wyches pinning enemy infantry in place, buying the incubi time to slaughter them at their leisure.
At the end of the day, I like to maximize everything I can do in a single turn, as you only get 6 on average to work with. Far better to pop a transport with trueborn and then flood the inhabitants with splinter shots from the venom/a nearby warrior squad; than it is to pop that transport with 2 darklances in a 20-man warrior squad, spend another expensive squad's worth of anti-infantry shooting or risk giving the enemy a turn to react with an intact squad. If I'm buying 90 points of splinter rifles just to unlock the ability to take a darklance, I'd rather just take a minimum squad with a blaster and mount them in a raider if I'm that starved for anti-tank.
Reavers I have yet to try, so I can't say for sure. While our everything tends to be made of tinfoil, I'm not of the opinion that all of it needs to suicidally charge up unsupported into the enemy's face and die. With the eldar jetbike rule, it would seem far better to take advantage of the 18" range of the blaster and the assault-phase move to jump-shoot-jump, preserving the reavers for multiple turns of annoying antics.
Yes we have. Paper thin anti tank but we have.
A list against leaf blower IG of a friend.
Duc Slicus
4 trueborns + 4 blasters
-> raider 5++
4 trueborns + 4 blasters
-> raider 5++
4 trueborns + 4 blasters
-> raider 5++
5 warriors + blaster
-> raider
5 warriors + blaster
-> raider
5 warriors + blaster
-> raider
5 warriors + blaster
-> raider
5 warriors + blaster
-> raider
5 warriors + blaster
-> raider
5 scourges 2 blasters or heat lance
5 scourges 2 blasters or heat lance
ravager
ravager
ravager
1999 points
41 lance weapons.
Last edited by Eldyriel; 02-03-2011 at 14:39.
I agree with everything here. Good Nurgling! *pets*
Hey, he asked where you could effectively use them. An objective sitter is preferable to a squad moving about in a Raider.
I wouldn't necessarily follow the craftworld line of thinking. C:E are not noted for being top tier for this exact reason. Their units have no duality. It's easy for an opposing general to identify the largest threat to his army and neutralize it. It's like saying "Don't take Melta Guns on Tactical Marines; take Flamers/Heavy Bolters always so they're even better against Infantry and you support their Bolters." Duality is a very useful thing.
Please note: I'm not saying this squad is ideal and it doesn't fit what I'd want my army to do. It is viable, however.
Again, all situational examples. What's stopping you from popping the vehicle then shooting them with the Splinter Rifles and the Lances? Furthermore, what if you didn't pop the vehicle and you really could use those Lance shots? We can play this game all day and nothing will come of it.
Try them. You'll see. They're so fun. Heat Lances are to destroy vehicles. They die slower than you'd think. Don't leave them completely isolated if you want them to survive.
Army lists in the Army List forum. That list is nice, but anyone who fields a halfway competent Tyranid army will demolish it. Orks laugh at it, which should tell you something. You're too heavily weighted towards AT and don't have enough guns to take out de-mech'd dudes.
The Dark City, Wherein I Talk Dark Eldar Tactics And Continue To Write Way Too Much
Daemons Daemons Daemons!
Now Playing: Dark Eldar, Daemons, Trollbloods, Protectorate of Menoth
So I have been playtesting a lot of units and I have to say they are pretty viscous
Talos: Will kill any vehicle, and most units. I ran it with chain flails extra cc weapon and a twinlinked heatlance. Chewed through a walker and marine units like butter(WS5 is SWEEEETTT). Once it gets furious charge it will be able to snipe any IC's as well.
Twin Haywire scourges are great for vehicle suppression as well as incapacitation.
Working on building a beast unit, almost done, needs a little green stuff and to be placed on their bases. Looking forward to trying them out as 5 beastmasters, 10 khymerae 4 razor and 1 clawed. One thing I will need to make sure they stay away from is walkers but other than that they should do fine.
I have found that for the most part flicker fields useless, it is too easy to get glancing/pen hits with multi shot weapons that volume of fire essentially negates it. Also half the time I am going flat out or something similar. I am trying out grisly trophies and the torment grenade launchers instead. Will help protect them from being killed in assaults as well as when I win combat making my opponents break easier.
Grotesques: Great against vehicles as well as lightly armored units. Will hold up elite units for a few turns especially low strength or number of attack units(other than strength 10). Not too expensive for what they can do. However they really need that third pain token otherwise if they lose an assault they are running for the hills
Parasite Engine: I almost get too many pain tokens with the vortex. Once had a unit with 7 just because I had no where else to put them, it was pretty funny.
So far I have found that against things other than possessed chaos vehicles I have not had a problem as a combination of glances from haywire launchers and wyches with haywire grenades most vehicles are kept in check.
And before someone says mech guard I am lucky enough to play at a store that follows the 25% terrain rule and so mech guard does not do so well.
Ahhh, the internet, where people lose all social inhibitions and somehow everyone gets compared to the losers in WWII
Is there any more recent compiled tacticas for DE? It would be much easier than reading through 93 pages.
Maybe. But this list exist to counter leaf blower IG or heavy armoured army. If you want a list that match against "everything" I can change every raider in the list by venoms. So 108 poisoned shots and 30 lance shots per turn for the same amount of points. (i must change one heat lance for a haywire launcher in a scourge squad to make a 2K list)Army lists in the Army List forum. That list is nice, but anyone who fields a halfway competent Tyranid army will demolish it. Orks laugh at it, which should tell you something. You're too heavily weighted towards AT and don't have enough guns to take out de-mech'd dudes.
Paper thin but pretty nasty.
I'm going to quickly mention my list here. I think it got lost amidst all the cheese. Would love to start a bit of conversation on it.
Clicky
...
I noticed there was talk of DLs being useless on Raider squads.
Do note that DLs can have a place on embarked units:
Night shields protect the unit while it uses DLs to contribute to ranged AT firepower. It's 185 pts for each ten-Kabalite squad with a DL in a NSRaider. Not too bad when you consider it can fire at two vehicles while being out of range of whatever doesn't get shut down. You can have up to six of these plus Ravagers, Trueborn, and Reavers/Scourges, after all.
And don't feel like you have to stay stationary (at least not after you alpha strike), because that's 9 splinter rifles in each Raider just itching to mass rapid fire some fools. If you haven't played a list like this yet, you will be surprised by just how long Raiders can go totally unscathed. Maybe I'll post up a NS list as an example one of these days.
KR
The issue is that the Raider HAS to remain stationary if you wish to use the Warrior's DL, and it can only move 6" if you want to be able to use any weapons from the transported unit at all.
Common tactic for Raider is 12" move + disembark + shoot. DL is unable to shoot during this, but the Blaster can as it's an assault weapon.
I was going to put a DL in every Warrior/Raider squad, but have switched it to a Blaster as it's slightly more versatile, and can still be used if you need to foot-slog it about.
Most of the tactica discussed in the 93 pages are summarized in the original post...otherwise, start reading!
Start at page 50 or 60 and just go from there. A lot of questions get asked over and again so there is little point reading the whole thing.
Bah, the Dark Eldar delight in torture, so go ahead and torture youself by reading through the lot :P. I know I did (really didn't have anything better to do in life, which is actually kind of sad).
Souleater is right though, although I would like to add that you should read the first page as well, there's a good number of decent tips there to at least get you started on the dark path.
Nemesis Doom Thumb - Castigator
Eldar Runes of Cheating - Cheeslord
A single candle that shows the way... RIP Brimstone.
I'm painting some Eldar again!
Models bought in 2013: 57; painted in 2013: 47
To each their own. I tend to advise redundancy rather than duality (though I do have to go back on that for a few exceptions; notably haywire grenades on wyches is always a good idea, in the event you find yourself tying up a
big killy walker).
I'll definitely have to give reavers a try, but the Baron and some Hellions are first in the try-out queue.
If you want the short version, read the OP and whatever Hashmal has posted.
Listen to Hashmal, for his words are as profound as they are wiseIf you want the short version, read the OP and whatever Hashmal has posted.
What's everyone's opinion on Venoms? I've played a few games against the local DEs who seem to have some attachment to the old Lance Raider spam and is quite convinced that the 4x Splintercannon Venom + 3 Trueborn is a terrible waste of elite slots.
Personally, I think they're speaking out of their ****, but how do people find Venoms here?
I ran 3 for a while
Against dismounted troops they are devastating
Against anything with an AV they are useless.
The problem with this is that a mechanised force can ignore them and target your anti tank for the win.
I am currently back in raider spam mode for this reason and quite enjoying myself.
I am looking forward to other builds though, there is a lot of exotic stuff in the book.
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