Dark Eldar (DE) Strategy Guide 5th

[loveless]

Here's the downside to Tactic threads on Warseer - they very rarely have tables of contents and the search function is miserable. I suppose I'll just write this up and see where it gets me.

I'm looking into actually assembling my several Dark Eldar into an army (step one: I need several more Raiders...) and I fear I'm being enticed by the add-ons. Things like Shattershards, Orbs of Despair, Caskets of Flensing, etc. Namely the stuff that really doesn't seem that reliable, but has amusing background and seems like (once in a blue moon) it might cause some substantial damage/annoyance. Does anyone have any good experience with the Arcane Wargear or does it tend to get glossed over (outside of Liquifiers and the occasional Hexrifle)?

I also keep comparing Wyches and Wracks (which seems wrong, but I can't break myself of it). Both seem to want to get into combat either to survive or to take advantage of their various rules - neither one is going to be successful sitting back and waiting, in my mind. Wyches seem dual purpose in that, appropriately equipped, they could go vehicle-hunting if need be. Wracks seem potentially more survivable (and, IMO, look cooler), but don't have the in-built boost of the Wyches' drugs. I think it's the similar point cost...I feel like I need either-or instead of both-and. What's the general verdict between the two? Do Wracks have a place outside a Coven list?

[scapegoatboy69]

Does anyone have any good experience with the Arcane Wargear or does it tend to get glossed over (outside of Liquifiers and the occasional Hexrifle)?

Wyches seem dual purpose in that, appropriately equipped, they could go vehicle-hunting if need be. Wracks seem potentially more survivable (and, IMO, look cooler), but don't have the in-built boost of the Wyches' drugs. I think it's the similar point cost...I feel like I need either-or instead of both-and. What's the general verdict between the two? Do Wracks have a place outside a Coven list?

I've had some pretty good luck using a Dark Gate. Generally useful for hitting multi-wound stuff with a poor save and causing instant death. The Liquifier Gun is the stock piece of wargear.

Wracks.

1: They shine with a Haemy tagging along, as the extra Strength from Furious Charge will let them reroll to wound.

2: In cover they've got a better save than normal Marines.

3: They're pretty good at using Liquifier Guns and at standing around & getting shot at.

[Sami]

Shattershard is probably the most potentially devastating piece of arcane wargear a Haemonculus can take. It's a flame template, doesn't allow any saves to be taken, and as it doesn't cause wounds it can be used to snipe out models in a unit. Any model hit by the template must pass a toughness test or be taken off the table. Don't pass go, don't collect $200. It works per model, so if you get special weapon guys or ICs or anything else more dangerous than the standard trooper under there then it needs to make its own roll, and if it fails it is gone. Can only be used once per game, but used right and it can gut otherwise tough to kill enemy units.

Other than that, Liquifier is excellent as you have a 50% chance of denying armour saves to MEQ (and due to it being a template weapon, no cover saves by default). Casket of Flensing is hilarious and I used to run one for a laugh, but mainly because it was cheap. The rest of it isn't particularly good. Crucible could've been a good anti-psyker tool if it wasn't so easy to pass the test.

[Sami]

They do however lack grenades (in the same boat as Incubi where the units that you would actually buy the Phantasm Grenade Launcher don't have access to it), so you'll be striking last if assaulting units in cover. They also don't have fleet, so getting a long charge off is impossible, and if you open up with some liquifiers a smart enemy will take models from the front, denying the charge.

I'm intrigued as to how Wracks have a better save than Marines when in cover. Wracks have 4+ cover, Marines get their 3+ armour. Unless you're factoring in FNP as well, which isn't the most reliable thing in the world when being shot at (i.e. S8+ and/or AP1/2 stuff coming your way)

[scapegoatboy69]

3+ Armor Save: .66, ignored by ap 1, ap 2, ap 3.

Cover and Feel No Pain: .75, ignored by ap 1, ap 2, strength 8+.

2+ Armor Save: .83, ignored by ap 1, ap 2.

Honestly, if the Wracks are drawing fire from anti-vehicle guns then the Wracks are doing something right. If they're hugging an objective, feel free to have them go to ground and be rocking terminator level saves on a 10 point model.

One of their main strengths: they're pretty expendable and they're alright at chewing through other expendable units. Once removing bubblewrap or standing in front of an onrushing problem is done, they can be very difficult to dislodge from cover.

[Sami]

You seem to forget that most enemy weapons count as "anti-vehicle" when shooting our paper planes (not that I lost a Raider to Bladestorm yesterday or anything), which means that the long range Big Guns can be re-purposed to take out our infantry if required.

[DeviantApostle]

After trying alot of things out:

Animus Vitae: Cool idea, bad execution. Better ways to get pain tokens.

Casket of Flensing: Got a spare Wrack worth of points and nothing else to spend it on? You can do worse.

Liquifier Gun: Best Wrack worth of points you'll ever spend.

Soul-trap: Not the hottest idea on the Haemie, you can do the Huskblade combo but do you really want to sink that many points here?

Vexator mask: I don't know how they arrived at this costing a whole Wrack worth of points... it's a boarderline fluff vs. effect item. It sounds cool but it's so unreliable. Doesn't even get a look into my list until around 2000pts. What saves it is the fact that the regular Marine is Ld8. That at least gives you a chance if, say, your hamie gets charged and they drop Sgt. Fisty on him. Supremely unreliable against any IC worth its salt, tho.

Sicissorhand: Overpriced. Take a Power Weapon or Venom Blade instead.

Archangel of Pain: Sounds kinda cool, in practice will either do ok or fail hysterically. Maybe if you're taking alot of Wracks or fighting halbard spam GK it may help if you can co-ordinate your attack to a level where this will work but even then it's reliant on Ld tests.

Hexrifle: May go from being kinda meh to one of the best weapons in the game come 6th.

Shattershard: Ok, now we're talking. One shot Liquifier gun on 'roids. Use on TH/SS termies and then listen to the lamentations of your opponent. Or a Seer Council. Or Paladins.

Crucible of Malediction: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Let me get this straight: our counter-psi is a weapon that probably won't get range enough to hit, has such a low probability of actually working on a Ld test (pro tip to the designers: psykers usually have Ld 10) and against the one army that makes this kind of promising, can only kill one model in an effected unit assuming it fails an Ld test where the odds are still on their side. Effective against CWE? HA, they wish. Sure, catch a Seer Council in the radius and you'll force them to succeed alot of tests. Leave this back at the flesh tower as a conversation piece at parties.

Orb of Despair: the more expensive bad version of the shattershard. Makes your heart leap when you see S10 Ap1, then you realize it doesn't affect vehicles and is a small, absurdly short ranged, template. Take the Shattershard instead.

Dark Gate: This thing would see more use if it wasn't AP-. Has some applications vs. transports, particularly on an Ancient. But it's alot of points for not really alot in return because of the penalty on the damage chart. Better than the Orb, not as good as the Shattershard or Liquifier but fills a different role.

Webway Portal: Wow, ok, applications of this go way, way, way beyond the scope of this post. You build armies around whether or not you use this item. The quickest and dirtiest way to use this is by considering it a Rhino for Hellions, Scourges, Beastmasters or Talos.

[Meriwether]

I can go along with all that DeviantApostle said on those items. Not that I've had a *ton* of experience with my DE, but I'm a play-around-and-see-what-does-what kind of army builder.

[loveless]

Thanks for the input, folks! Very helpful.

I really wish the scissorhand were cheaper. I love the idea of it, but at a Wrack more than a Venom Blade, I just can't see the point. Ah well.

I'm glad to see good "reviews" on the Shattershard. That's one of my favorite items from an "on-paper" study, so it's good to see it's as useful as I thought (I'm not always the best at determining item worth in 40K).

[DeviantApostle]

I really wish the scissorhand were cheaper. I love the idea of it, but at a Wrack more than a Venom Blade, I just can't see the point. Ah well.

I can expand on this one, I did kinda gloss over it.

The problem with the Scissorhand is IMO that it's in a wierd position on the points scale. The Venom Blade is more point efficient and makes up for the loss of 1 attack over the Scissorhand. The Power Weapon is better against marines, which is most of the armies out there competitively these days. On the other end of the scale... the Flesh Gauntlet is only a Venom Blade more than the Scissorhand.

On one hand, it's not really better than a power weapon for what it does. Sure, it's better for killing hordes and MCs than the power weapon but most of those MCs come with at least 3+ saves anyway. Hordes I can shoot alot and Wyches and Wracks are good at killing hordes in CC. And poison ranged weapons are also better at killing MCs.

Now, if you really want to kill MCs, why not the Flesh Gauntlet? All they have to do is fail 1 3+ save in most cases. Or, even better, split the difference and throw on an Agonizer! Kill marines and throw down wounds on MCs at the same time.

Oh, and the Scissorhand takes up one of your arcane wargear slots while NONE of these competing options does.

In practice, I didn't really notice a difference in effect between the Scissorhand and the Venom Blade. The Haemie isn't exactly a CCW monster, I mean do you really want to be throwing him at MCs in the first place? When I throw my Haemie into a unit of 9 Wyches, sure, I buy him an Agonizer and Liquifier and I throw a PGL on the Hekatrix. Yeah, I lose fleet this way but increase the hitting power of the unit. The same unit gets a Shardnet and Haywide Grenades, they're my 'aggressive tarpit' unit designed to bog down and/or slowly kill tough opponents like MCs and Dreads. With an abundance of points, I throw a Shattershard on the Haemie and maybe make him an Ancient... of course, I shave this unit down to brass tacks in lower point games.

[inq.serge]

Hi, I need tips for a 2000 pts no-komp, FW-allowed, WYSIWYG tournament list.

I'm quite out of cash to buy new stuff, but I have following models:
HQ
1 Huskblade/soultrap/ Grenade launcher archon.
1 blaster archon
1 Converted Vect on Foot (maybe I should take him, if only to seize the initiative)
1 Lelith
Elite
More Harlies than you can fit in the army
5 Incubi with klaivex
4 Bloodbrides (2with nets)

Kabalites
27 kabalites with splinterrifles
15 kabalites with blasters
4 kabalites with dark lances
4 kabalites with splintercannons
4 kabalites with shredders

Fast attack
6 Reavers
3 reavers with heatlance and clustercaltrop.
12 scourges with splinter carbines
4 scourges with heat lances
4 scourges with haywire blasters

Heavy
2 razorwings with monoscytes, dark lances and splinterrifles
1 razorwing with monoschytes, dissies and splintercannons

Transport
1 venom with 2 splintercannons
5 raiders with darklances
1 raider with enhanced aethersails and chainsnares.
____

What should I take. The only must is the three razorwings. I'll never leave home without them.

Something I learned from last tournament wass to A) Don't bait or shoot at any opportunity, but prepare to redeploy your entire army by using high speed when needed. b) Get something closecombaty and C) Don't drop all your kaballite to the ground on turn 1 and leave them to die.

So, When should my kabalites disembark? and where? and when should they embark? Should they re-embark during the game?

Something more I've learned by reading 40 or so articles on real world military tactics in wikipedia is that I should use force concentration and aim for "Defeat by Detail". Any tips or suggestions?

Also, most important, If I don't go first, what should I do? If I try to seize the initiative (with or without vect) and fail, what should I do?

Also, what should I do in a Dawn of War scenario?

[Dreadlordpaul]

Just to report for the past 4/5 months i have had alot of success with a foot slogging DE list. It obviously has some flaws but the last lot of armies that i have played against were all mech armies and it is funny to watch when i have de meched them within 2 turns as it forces them to come towards me or im gonna shoot them up. Of course they are gonna get shot up either way

[Meriwether]

Just to report for the past 4/5 months i have had alot of success with a foot slogging DE list. It obviously has some flaws but the last lot of armies that i have played against were all mech armies and it is funny to watch when i have de meched them within 2 turns as it forces them to come towards me or im gonna shoot them up. Of course they are gonna get shot up either way

What do you use to de-mech armies before they can engage you in assault, and at what points value?

[Dreadlordpaul]

What do you use to de-mech armies before they can engage you in assault, and at what points value?

1750 and i basically take 2 10 man warrior squads with a DL and a blaster 2 4 man true born squads with 2 DL's and 2 blasters. 10 incubi with klaivex with onslaught who are joined by a archon with huskblade soul trap combat drugs phantasm grenade launcher shadow fields. I then have 14 wyches with haywire grenades 2 hydra gauntlets with hekatrix who has agoniser. to round my list off i have 3 3 man reaver jetbike squads who all have a heat lance and a arena champion with agoniser. My army is then rounded off by a talos with chain flails

[archonisthebesthqever]

1750 and i basically take 2 10 man warrior squads with a DL and a blaster 2 4 man true born squads with 2 DL's and 2 blasters. 10 incubi with klaivex with onslaught who are joined by a archon with huskblade soul trap combat drugs phantasm grenade launcher shadow fields. I then have 14 wyches with haywire grenades 2 hydra gauntlets with hekatrix who has agoniser. to round my list off i have 3 3 man reaver jetbike squads who all have a heat lance and a arena champion with agoniser. My army is then rounded off by a talos with chain flails

Well,ur list has 6 dl shots 6 blaster shots 3 heat lances shots,all of those at 6 different targets and only the dls are long range.So,can u tell me how do u de-mech them at second turn while my list with 25 + lances and greater cc element cant?

[FrostByteVA]

Hi, I need tips for a 2000 pts no-komp, FW-allowed, WYSIWYG tournament list.

Also, most important, If I don't go first, what should I do? If I try to seize the initiative (with or without vect) and fail, what should I do?

Also, what should I do in a Dawn of War scenario?

For me personally, with DE, I would never think of deploying assuming that I get the initiative (unless against leaf blower and that because if I don't go first, there is no way for me to win but that's another story). First goal is to deploy out of their range. If I can't do this, I go full reserves. Reserve rolls generally treat you better than sieze the initiative.

Dawn of war, I almost always choose to go second, and drive on during my first turn. Yes, NF can hurt but you are generally closer to your opponent going second than going first. Most of the oppents I face want to get in your face (BA, SW, Nids) with a majority of their army so they move on/up as far as they can in their turn. Just make sure against a Palidan list to have something on the board because you don't want both of their death stars starting on the 24" line.

Against someone who will sit back and shoot, go first but make sure to stay as far away as necessary knowing they will average 21 inches in night fight and if they have lights, perhaps even further with a suicide rhino.

[Dreadlordpaul]

Well,ur list has 6 dl shots 6 blaster shots 3 heat lances shots,all of those at 6 different targets and only the dls are long range.So,can u tell me how do u de-mech them at second turn while my list with 25 + lances and greater cc element cant?

Cause generally in my area at most i see is 4 transports + 3 dreads

[Kelanen]

Cause generally in my area at most i see is 4 transports + 3 dreads

That would be why bad lists (like foot D/Eldar) work. You are facing other bad lists.

[Inquisitor Shego]

I've had some success with Baron Sathonyx + 10 Razorwing Bird Flocks in a large unit. Anybody tried it with more than one unit of Bird Strike? Or am I being a bit too cheesy?

[Meriwether]

Cause generally in my area at most i see is 4 transports + 3 dreads

I have a hard time believing that you can even de-mech four transports and three dreads with that list. Just the math says erm, no. Let's assume that because you're talking about dreads, you're shooting at rhinos...

Let's look at your firepower:
2 10 man warrior squads with a DL and a blaster--that's two DLs and two blasters, but the blasters are only 18" range else the DLs can't fire, so first turn one or the other won't get to shoot.
2 4 man true born squads with 2 DL's and 2 blasters--that's four DL and four blasters, but have the same problem.
10 incubi with klaivex with onslaught who are joined by a archon with huskblade soul trap combat drugs phantasm grenade launcher shadow fields -- have no shooting.
14 wyches with haywire grenades 2 hydra gauntlets with hekatrix who has agoniser--have no anti-vehicle shooting.
3 3 man reaver jetbike squads who all have a heat lance and a arena champion with agoniser--one heat lance, 21" melta, 30" total threat range.
talos with chain flails--no anti-vehicle shooting.

So out of the gate you have six dark lances and three heat lances that can do anything at all to "de-mech" an army. Let's assume your opponent isn't a ***** and sets up 21+ inches away (which generally they have to anyway), but not much farther, and of course put extra armor on the rhinos (because, again, you're not playing against an idiot). And now let's do some math:

6 dark lances = 4 hits = .67 glancing and 1.33 penetrating hits. Of those, 83% of the glancing hits will fail to stop (that is, stun, immobilize, or destroy) the transport, so that's 0.11 transports taken care of there, and of the penetrating hits, 50% will also fail to immobilize or destroy a transport, so that's another .67 of a transport.

3 heat lances = 2 hits = 0.17 glancing and 0.17 penetrating hits. 67% of the glancing hits will fail to immobilise or destroy the transport (due to AP 1), and 33% of the penetrating hits likewise, so that's 0.06 and .11 transports, respectively.

Your total anticipated damage with the load-out as given is 0.95 transports prevented from moving from an opening-turn salvo... If your opponent has no cover -- not even from his own vehicles. And if, of course, you go first. If either of those assumptions are not true, your salvo should be even less effective. After which, those rhinos will be in your face and it won't even matter if you destroy them in the following turn.

So either you play against complete ******, or you're just making stuff up.