Dark Eldar (DE) Strategy Guide 5th

[Mandor]

in the DH/WH Codices the Callidus Assassin (who has a S8 template weap with similar rules) has been ruled (iirc) to cause ID against Ld4 or lower models, which is pretty easy to do with Weaken Resolve in an IG list.

Doesn't ID check against the base toughness (or leadership) of a model, not the modified value? I know it works that way with bikes' +1T. So Weaken Resolve wouldn't work against that, right? I guess the same thing goes for Vect's blast.

[Saldiven]

Am I missing something on Lelith?

On the charge against guardsmen she kills 4 (12 attacks, 8 hits, 4 dead), even less against marines (2.45 dead). Sure she's relatively hard to kill for troops choices as they'll need 5's to hit but S3 and no rerolls of any sort means she isn't that effective at killing for her cost.

An Archon with agoniser/shadowfield comes in around 100 points and will put 2 wounds on (pretty much) anything in the game.

She will do slightly more wounds to MEq than a S4 model with a power weapon and 6 attacks.

If you use pain token shenanigans to get her a token, then it takes 27 regular S4 attacks to get through a single wound, and each model in BtB with Lelith has -1 attack.

She's absolute money against smaller MEq units like combat squads, devastatator squads, or Long Fang packs. Pack her in with a unit of wyches for example, and split her off to take on a smaller or already damaged unit. The number of wounds she does is not so impressive that it'll leave her out in the open to be shot in the opponent's turn, and it's likely, if you pick your target well, that she'll finish off the target squad in time to engage a new target on her turn.

She is not a "I win button," but can be quite effective if you play to her strengths.

[Refyougee]

Doesn't ID check against the base toughness (or leadership) of a model, not the modified value? I know it works that way with bikes' +1T. So Weaken Resolve wouldn't work against that, right? I guess the same thing goes for Vect's blast.

http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid...monhunters+FAQ

first link, 3rd page. i dont see base ld anywhere

[Kalishnikov-47]

I also have to disagree with a few of the assessments of the units and weapons.

3 man Reaver squads with a Heat Lance will drive mech armies up the river with how much of a nuisance they are. I mean yeah they are not a big threat on paper, but allowing them to detonate a transport because your enemy scoffed at them will make em think twice.

Also I see the merits of the Mindphase gauntlet. Giving it to a Haemonculus with a Wych unit that has a Hekatrix with an agoniser and PGL creates on of the hardest tarpits imaginable. If on foot you can take 2 shardnets and make a unit really pay. Otherwise it will be 1 shardnet in a raider which I don't find very cost effective.

Back to the Mindphase gauntlet. For every hit you make, they are required to take a Str and Ld test. So two hits requires 4 characteristic checks. Giving you a good chance that the IC you are fighting will not swing. Initiative also is a key player understandably. If you do not want a monstrous creature swinging hitting him and making him sit there stupified is well worth the 10 pts. While the Wyches and the sarge with Agoniser wreak a bloody toll.

I know I am taking one in my Wych Raider squad. The ability to shut down an IC or Monstrous Creature makes that unit such an effective tarpit and allows for my Hellions to swoop in as the enemy squad is pinned down by the Wyches.

Also on Chains Snares, preferring them on bikes is fine until you read the fine print where the chains snares hit EVERY unit in line. Going 24" against a horde army with 6 Raiders gives you a range of 12-24 Str 4 Hits and gives you a nifty cover save and prevents the enemy from assaulting you as easily. While your other anti horde units such as Razorwings finish off the units with Monoscythes. Then when you are ready to deal with the slow MC you Dark Lance them to hell. Chain snares can be very effective when used correctly.

5 Warriors in a Raider with a Blaster and Chain Snares comes in at 125 pts. Which is not bad at all. 3 of those combined with Trueborn mounted in Raiders or Wracks in Raiders work just as well.

I know I will be adding Chain Snares on my Raiders for the added anti-horde. Once more if you are worried about losing the troops squads inside. Deploy them outside and fire your splinter rifles while your Raiders fly around a wreak their havoc.

[bigbear bailey]

Isn't this a legit tactic? It certainly used to be.

Joking right? The unit is good at killing rhinos but anything else you are wasting the shots... thus my point.

[bigbear bailey]

oops, my bad about the token thing for killing vehicles. like i was saying though, give your reavers FNP and move them back to cover or turbo boost - they'll have a pretty good save at range, and die like marines in combat (except against >S5).



in the DH/WH Codices the Callidus Assassin (who has a S8 template weap with similar rules) has been ruled (iirc) to cause ID against Ld4 or lower models, which is pretty easy to do with Weaken Resolve in an IG list.

Your post have been a great help with reavers so I will make sure that I invlude your input to them when I finish the guide today and start editing.

[bigbear bailey]

I also have to disagree with a few of the assessments of the units and weapons.

3 man Reaver squads with a Heat Lance will drive mech armies up the river with how much of a nuisance they are. I mean yeah they are not a big threat on paper, but allowing them to detonate a transport because your enemy scoffed at them will make em think twice.

Also I see the merits of the Mindphase gauntlet. Giving it to a Haemonculus with a Wych unit that has a Hekatrix with an agoniser and PGL creates on of the hardest tarpits imaginable. If on foot you can take 2 shardnets and make a unit really pay. Otherwise it will be 1 shardnet in a raider which I don't find very cost effective.

Back to the Mindphase gauntlet. For every hit you make, they are required to take a Str and Ld test. So two hits requires 4 characteristic checks. Giving you a good chance that the IC you are fighting will not swing. Initiative also is a key player understandably. If you do not want a monstrous creature swinging hitting him and making him sit there stupified is well worth the 10 pts. While the Wyches and the sarge with Agoniser wreak a bloody toll.

I know I am taking one in my Wych Raider squad. The ability to shut down an IC or Monstrous Creature makes that unit such an effective tarpit and allows for my Hellions to swoop in as the enemy squad is pinned down by the Wyches.

Also on Chains Snares, preferring them on bikes is fine until you read the fine print where the chains snares hit EVERY unit in line. Going 24" against a horde army with 6 Raiders gives you a range of 12-24 Str 4 Hits and gives you a nifty cover save and prevents the enemy from assaulting you as easily. While your other anti horde units such as Razorwings finish off the units with Monoscythes. Then when you are ready to deal with the slow MC you Dark Lance them to hell. Chain snares can be very effective when used correctly.

5 Warriors in a Raider with a Blaster and Chain Snares comes in at 125 pts. Which is not bad at all. 3 of those combined with Trueborn mounted in Raiders or Wracks in Raiders work just as well.

I know I will be adding Chain Snares on my Raiders for the added anti-horde. Once more if you are worried about losing the troops squads inside. Deploy them outside and fire your splinter rifles while your Raiders fly around a wreak their havoc.

Well played on the chain snares sir... fixing it now. Main thing to see with the mindphase gauntlet is that it make models lose attacks for THAT turn only. Problem with this being that most things that this will affect are very slim as the opponent has to be I 4 or lower (and that's saying you have furious charge on the homunculus or are using the ancient, which the latter of the two seems to many points just to get a better tar pit). If you take it on the Archon then again to many points for a tar pit unit and you have to feel like you're wasting his combat potential there.

This will be better as I said on nobs, warbosses, carnifexs and things will I 4 or lower. See what I mean as tying the I of a enemy model still allows for their swings.

[Kalishnikov-47]

Well played on the chain snares sir... fixing it now. Main thing to see with the mindphase gauntlet is that it make models lose attacks for THAT turn only. Problem with this being that most things that this will affect are very slim as the opponent has to be I 4 or lower (and that's saying you have furious charge on the homunculus or are using the ancient, which the latter of the two seems to many points just to get a better tar pit). If you take it on the Archon then again to many points for a tar pit unit and you have to feel like you're wasting his combat potential there.

This will be better as I said on nobs, warbosses, carnifexs and things will I 4 or lower. See what I mean as tying the I of a enemy model still allows for their swings.

Understandable, haha I am just saying with most MC being below I4 it is not a bad prospect. I mean most MCs would pass those characteristic tests, which is where the Shardnets come on. If a fex is tagged by two of em. Then you are getting only 2 attacks coming your way that have to hit, wound, and then you get your Dodge save. Very effective for shutting down Tervigons and Carnifexes if you ask me. Trygons, eh not so much haha.

It has its merits is all I am saying. Plus it is cheap. Of course I could take a Venom Blade and a Liquifier gun on my Haemonculus, but I want something that can aid the Wyches in bogging down MCs who are notorious for ignoring FnP.
Cheers!

[Krayd]

This will be better as I said on nobs, warbosses, carnifexs and things will I 4 or lower. See what I mean as tying the I of a enemy model still allows for their swings.

Don't forget that it would also work nicely on any IC that is armed with a powerfist.

[Kalishnikov-47]

^
What he said.

[bigbear bailey]

Don't forget that it would also work nicely on any IC that is armed with a powerfist.

Adding now, well played sir!

[BoneHeart]

Ive played 3 games, and I managed to kill 3 IC-s with huskblade+soultrap archon.
1 ba librarian
1 farseer
1 sw hq

Get 1 piece of 5+ and watch his face failing those 1 save.
Or if you dont like that, run the good old agoniser archon

Drazhar: Ehm, Im not seeing the assasin in him. You most avoid power weapons, and kill infantry instead. put him in a min incubi squad +raider and go killing

[Bondoid3]

There are some IC's (Farseers, Lord Comissars, Sanguinary priests, etc) that arent close combat beasts. And if they are in cc, there owner probably took some pains to keep them from being in b2b with your nasty killy character.

Drazhar laughs at such measures, and promptly engages any opponent in b2b he desires.

seems kinda like an assassin to me.

[BoneHeart]

Ah ok, but these characters are so rare...
Im only seeing mephistons, Njals, 4 rune priests, chaos demon princes, skulltakers, and necron destroyer lords.
Whats wrong with my eyes?

[airmang]

Yeah, I see Drazhar's jumping around in CC ability more to get away from the power weapons/fist/T. Hammers. It's more about him picking his fights (to me anyway) than going IC hunting.

[Mandor]

Yeah, I see Drazhar's jumping around in CC ability more to get away from the power weapons/fist/T. Hammers. It's more about him picking his fights (to me anyway) than going IC hunting.

I don't think I8, WS7, reroll misses, STR7, 5 attacks on the charge, extra attack on 6's is too bad. And he still has Eternal Warrior to absorb that Power Fist wound that gets through. Lightning Claws will take him out pretty easily though.

[Archibald_TK]

Splinter racks- Don’t remember dead on what the book says but if I do remember right then this thing is great for true born with their splinter carbines.

Don't know if someone pointed it out but it only works on Splinter pistols and rifles.

There's also his Dais which is interesting, but I think will probably not work out too well; it's way too obvious of a target, and forces you to put lots of points into it (flickerfields + nightshields are pretty much mandatory, 9 other passengers).

From what I remember the Dais has no options available, you cannot buy Flickerfields or Nightshields.

[don_mondo]

Sathonyx is actually really good in combat. If you do the math he can get to strength 8 on the charge. More than that, he allows you an advantage in determining turn 1, which is a major boon in an alpha strike army like DE.

C-girl.

Actually, he has no effect on who goes first, based on his rules as written. He gives +1 on the roll for deployment zone, but as GW has already stated in their FAQs, there's no such thing as a roll for deployment zones in the main rulebook standard scenarios. There is only a roll to see who goes first, with the player going first getting to choose which deployment zone they want. Sure, they probably MEANT +1 on the roll to go first, but until they Errata it (as they did for Bjorn), he does nothing.

[Archibald_TK]

Actually, he has no effect on who goes first, based on his rules as written. He gives +1 on the roll for deployment zone, but as GW has already stated in their FAQs, there's no such thing as a roll for deployment zones in the main rulebook standard scenarios. There is only a roll to see who goes first, with the player going first getting to choose which deployment zone they want. Sure, they probably MEANT +1 on the roll to go first, but until they Errata it (as they did for Bjorn), he does nothing.

In each Matt Ward Codex he forgets that Vindicators weapons are supposed to be Blast, in each Phil Kelly Codex he forgets that you roll for who plays first, not who deploys first. I see a pattern here! (If I was really really mean I'd add "in any Robin Cruddace Codex he forget about internal balance", thank god I'm not a mean guy)

Anyway that will be a non issue for a majority of people as as usual a lot of tournaments will have their own FAQ while waiting for GW one. And if someone try to argue it in a friendly game the DE player probably won't even bother playing against him in the first place so... non issue again.

[bigbear bailey]

Don't know if someone pointed it out but it only works on Splinter pistols and rifles.


From what I remember the Dais has no options available, you cannot buy Flickerfields or Nightshields.

Thanks a lot updated it now!