Dark Eldar (DE) Strategy Guide 5th

[Archibald_TK]

I figured agonizers would be good for charging in and gettin the charge, instead of being charged at when I get into rapid fire range. But if its a waste of points, tell me and I'll take em out

Agonizer is indeed less than optimal for the warriors as you will try to never get into CC, it is on the other hand the only power weapon you can get with the Wracks so keep it on them, you'll need it.

[Kiras of the flame]

I would say Scissor hand... More chances of killing someone is fun

[Rashkasha]

Agonizer is indeed less than optimal for the warriors as you will try to never get into CC, it is on the other hand the only power weapon you can get with the Wracks so keep it on them, you'll need it.

But Acothysts have a problem with +1 attack from additional CCW, since they start with 2 poisoned weapons and no normal CCW or pistol. Only 2 attacks with the agoniser is a bit expensive. Depending on the ruling about same kind of weapon for poison weapons (2+) and poison weapon (4+), either buy a venom blade or a stinger pistol.

[Archibald_TK]

But Acothysts have a problem with +1 attack from additional CCW, since they start with 2 poisoned weapons and no normal CCW or pistol. Only 2 attacks with the agoniser is a bit expensive. Depending on the ruling about same kind of weapon for poison weapons (2+) and poison weapon (4+), either buy a venom blade or a stinger pistol.

You are right I totally forgot about it. Since you can't have both a pistol and an Agonizer on the Acothyst, the Agonizer is indeed very expensive for only 2 attacks (and I think the Scissor Hands suffer the same problem for keeping the same number of attacks as two poisoned weapons and just upgrading to poison 3+). I'm not sure how the Venom Blade will be handled quite frankly.

Regarding the Agonizer/Scissors issue, unless my math is off, taking into consideration that you always have one more attacks with the scissors and against T3 or less opponents, the Agonizer is better against infantry that have 4+ save or better and targets that have fnp, the Scissor Hand is better against 5+ save infantry and targets with invulnerable saves. Matter of preference I suppose.

[Rashkasha]

Acothyst is 20 points and for additional points you get:
0 points (no upgrades):
Charge: 4 attacks, hit 4+, wound 4+ =1 wound, Armor 4+ -> 0.5 dead; 3+ -> 0.333 dead;
Normal: 3 attacks, hit 4+, wound 4+ =0.75 wound, Armor 4+ -> 0.375 dead; 3+ -> 0.25 dead;
5 points (Venom Blade, no +1 attack tho not sure on this):
Charge: 3 attacks, hit 4+, wound 2+ =1.25 wound, Armor 4+ -> 0.625 dead; 3+ -> 0.417 dead;
Normal: 2 attacks, hit 4+, wound 2+ =0.833 wound, Armor 4+ -> 0.417 dead; 3+ -> 0.278 dead;
5 points (Stinger pistol, one shot before charge):
Charge: 4 attacks, hit 4+, wound 4+ and 1 shot, hit 3+, wound 2+ = 1,556 wound, Armor 4+ -> 0.778 dead; 3+ -> 0.519 dead;
Normal: 3 attacks, hit 4+, wound 4+ =0.75 wound, Armor 4+ -> 0.375 dead; 3+ -> 0.25 dead;
15 points (Scissorhand):
Charge: 4 attacks, hit 4+, wound 3+ =1.333 wound, Armor + -> 0.667 dead; 3+ -> 0.444 dead; 4
Normal: 3 attacks, hit 4+, wound 3+ =1 wound, Armor 4+ -> 0.5 dead; 3+ -> 0.333 dead;
20 points (Agoniser):
Charge: 3 attacks, hit 4+, wound 4+ =0.75 wound, Armor 4+ -> 0.75 dead; 3+ -> 0.75 dead;
Normal: 2 attacks, hit 4+, wound 4+ =0.5 wound, Armor 4+ -> 0.5 dead; 3+ -> 0.5 dead;

I think I'll try the stinger pistol for a while and leave agonisers for wyches, hellions and HQ.

[Archibald_TK]

Yeah as usual I messed up some calculation somewhere.

I think the Agoniser really shine when confronted to Feel no Pain. When fighting BA (or Death Guard) for example, the results turn into (with and without charge each time):
No upgrade: 0.166/0.125 kill
Venom Blade: 0.208/0.139 kill
Stinger Pistol: 0.259/0.125 kill
Scissor Hands: 0.222/0.166 kill
Agoniser: 0.75/0.5 kill

That's a huge difference, especially since the 9 other Wracks will only do: 1.123/0.749 kill. The Agoniser is a 67% upgrade in killing power for the Wracks, while the next best choice, the Scissor Hand, is only around a 20% upgrade.
It doesn't change the fact the Agoniser is very expensive for that model and it's a shame we can't buy a simple Power Weapon for half the price like anybody else. But for those who play with Wracks instead of Wyches as CC troops they may be worth considering.

[randomalias]

Has anyone found a legitimate use for the Razorwing/Voidraven? Every time I go to make a list I end up weighing them up against the Ravager for efficiency and I can just not see what role they serve. Which is a pity because they're otherwise very cool.

[Lord Khabal]

Why arent you stacking the poisoned CCW (+1A) with the agonizer on the Acothyst?

[Archibald_TK]

Why arent you stacking the poisoned CCW (+1A) with the agonizer on the Acothyst?

Because poisoned weapons are classified as Special Weapons in the main rulebook, since the Agoniser is also a Special Weapons you do not get the additional attack (you only get it if the two Special Weapons are the same, BRB p42)

Has anyone found a legitimate use for the Razorwing/Voidraven? Every time I go to make a list I end up weighing them up against the Ravager for efficiency and I can just not see what role they serve. Which is a pity because they're otherwise very cool.

Their Alpha Strike potential against any infantry that is not hidding in a vehicle is simply ridiculous. You land 4 Shatterfield or 3 Shatterfield and a Necrotoxin (for double Ld check) missiles at a target (plus your lances and potential Splinter Cannon) and you see it being vaporized, then you are free to go Tank Hunting. Few models in the game are able to land that many wounds on a unit in a single shooting phase, the only one I can think for now is the Manticore.

[Deroga]

Has anyone found a legitimate use for the Razorwing/Voidraven? Every time I go to make a list I end up weighing them up against the Ravager for efficiency and I can just not see what role they serve. Which is a pity because they're otherwise very cool.

Voidraven, imo, isnt worth it. Void lances are nice, but...if im not mistaken...2 voidlances have roughly the same odds of blowing vehicles up as 3 dark lances. If you load up on missles, it becomes very expensive for a dark eldar vehicle.

Razorwing fighters, on the other hand, i think are a great option. 40 points more and you lose 1 dark lance, but gain 4 lrge blast missles. My favorite setup would probably be 2 lance ravangers with 1 infantry killing razorwing (2 dissenigrators, splinter cannon, 4 missles). Between the razorwing and 2 anti infantry raider squads...you can make pretty fast work of anything on the ground .

[Marshal Augustine]

Razorwing:

I used one once, and it failed to do anything (killed 4 long fangs) then died to the remaining one. Then I found out that you can switch out the two lances for dissintegrators for free!!! Yeah, so now I have added it back in again. 4 missiles, the splinter cannon and the 2 dissintegrators makes it a hard core dedicated anti infantry tank. Since I usually place my ravagers with dissies in reserve (untill some tanks get popped) then this unit can come in and mangle a unit, the dissies make it good against termies and MEQ and the missiles make it good against hordes!... all in all it is all round AI. More playtesting is required because the layout (with cannon, FF and NS) is 50pts more than a ravager... so only time will tell but the versatility against hordes is something that I am really looking forward to.

[Da Black Gobbo]

Hey guys, i've been considering the adition of a Talos for my hybrid army (WWP with mech) and i thought about this configuration.

-Talos: Hywire blaster, chain flails, extra CC weapon and the thing that makes all its attacks instakill people. This way the little baby will mess with non EW independent characters, vehicles, Tyranid MCs and non thunder hammer/shield termmies. For 135points isn't bad, watcha think?

[Archibald_TK]

-Talos: Hywire blaster, chain flails, extra CC weapon and the thing that makes all its attacks instakill people. This way the little baby will mess with non EW independent characters, vehicles, Tyranid MCs and non thunder hammer/shield termmies. For 135points isn't bad, watcha think?

Since both the Ichor Injector and and the Chain Flail are special CC weapons can you actually benefits from both of their rules on a non Tyranid MC? Because if I remember correctly regular MC equipped with multiple Special Weapons follow the same rules as infantry, you chose one or the other.
Quite frankly even if I'm wrong and you can the Ichor Injector makes you lose one attack (if fielded with the Chain Flail) for a chance at ID if the character fails a toughness test. You already ID T3 characters, TMC will rarely fail and would probably die sooner if you had the additional attack. I'm not convinced it's worth permanently losing an attack for the rare occasion it will works... if it works.

TL Haywire and Chain Flail on the other hand I 100% agree. But I would turn the additional CC weapon into a TL Liquifier Gun.
Did anybody try using it with two TL Liquifier Guns for double Template? I wonder how it would fare.

[powerm0nkey]

One thing on the subject of the Klaivex: I've noticed people on these forums saying that Klaivex with demiklaives get 6 S4 attacks on the charge or 4 S6 attacks on the charge. But demi-Klaives are power weapons that add +2 attacks or +2 strength to the wielder. They do not also give that +1 strength that the klaive gives. So a Klaivex would have 6 S3 attacks on the charge or 4 S5 attacks on the charge.


On a different topic, I've seen people griping about how Dark Eldar don't get enough AT: Heat Lances are too short range, Dark Lances are suppression fire, etc... But aren't people forgetting that we have a S8 AP1 Melta gun? The fusion pistol on Harlequins seems like the perfect AT option. for a measly 10 points, we can have a squad of 5 harlies with two fusion pistols. That comes out to 110 points for two meltagun shots, which is not too shabby. The harlequins can also steal a raider from some warriors to get within melta-range.

[Da Black Gobbo]

Since both the Ichor Injector and and the Chain Flail are special CC weapons can you actually benefits from both of their rules on a non Tyranid MC? Because if I remember correctly regular MC equipped with multiple Special Weapons follow the same rules as infantry, you chose one or the other.
Quite frankly even if I'm wrong and you can the Ichor Injector makes you lose one attack (if fielded with the Chain Flail) for a chance at ID if the character fails a toughness test. You already ID T6 characters, TMC will rarely fail and would probably die sooner if you had the additional attack. I'm not convinced it's worth permanently losing an attack for the rare occasion it will works... if it works.

TL Haywire and Chain Flail on the other hand I 100% agree. But I would turn the additional CC weapon into a TL Liquifier Gun.
Did anybody try using it with two TL Liquifier Guns for double Template? I wonder how it would fare.

Hey thanks! i missread the rules, i thought it caused instad death allways. Too good to be true. Heheh, but twin liquifier is certanly really good to thin hordes.

[Archibald_TK]

Hey thanks! i missread the rules, i thought it caused instad death allways. Too good to be true. Heheh, but twin liquifier is certanly really good to thin hordes.

Np, there are so many rules in that Codex that I mix/miss them constantly, without the Codex at hand I can never remember what some weapons do.
Oh, rereading my post I see that I can't tell the difference between a 3 and a 6. I meant to say that the Talos already ID T3 characters, not T6. I'll have to edit that.

On a different topic, I've seen people griping about how Dark Eldar don't get enough AT: Heat Lances are too short range, Dark Lances are suppression fire, etc... But aren't people forgetting that we have a S8 AP1 Melta gun? The fusion pistol on Harlequins seems like the perfect AT option. for a measly 10 points, we can have a squad of 5 harlies with two fusion pistols. That comes out to 110 points for two meltagun shots, which is not too shabby. The harlequins can also steal a raider from some warriors to get within melta-range.

Well, Harlequins are Elite, so are the Trueborns, one of the DE best anti Tank and a far superior choice for that duty. For 131pts you have 2 blasters shots + a Venom that can land 12 poisoned shots. You can even add a third or fourth Blaster...

Wait... people are complaining that DE don't have enough anti Tank? For real?

[Krovin-Rezh]

On a different topic, I've seen people griping about how Dark Eldar don't get enough AT: Heat Lances are too short range, Dark Lances are suppression fire, etc... But aren't people forgetting that we have a S8 AP1 Melta gun? The fusion pistol on Harlequins seems like the perfect AT option. for a measly 10 points, we can have a squad of 5 harlies with two fusion pistols. That comes out to 110 points for two meltagun shots, which is not too shabby. The harlequins can also steal a raider from some warriors to get within melta-range.

Yeah, Harlequins seem worth adding just so we can finally use a S8 melta. They are also well-rounded for shooting/assault if you want to pay for the versatility. Decent survivors with veil of tears, too.

I would interject though, that S8 on a melta is mostly necessary against AV13-14 (lances say hi), wounding T6 on a 2+ (poison says hi), or IDing T4 (husk blade says hi). But that doesn't make it a bad tool to have, of course.

[kraken]

Nah, gotta stop you right there , harlies have to get within 3", and walk all the way there (unless portaling) they blow themselves up real bad when a tank goes up. I think DE players would have wept tears of joy If they could be bought a venom.

The problem with DE AT is the lances, they just dont kill anything, its hard to field enough to blow through cover/damage chart and do anything at all sometimes.

If your opponent spams tanks you really have your work cut out for you.

Melta is available as heat lances they work just fine and from 9" away ,which should mean no exploding death.

5 harlies is not particularly anything to write home about in CC and trueborn with 4 blasters is about as effective from 18 inches away , counting as 24" with night fields.

My points will go on the Tborn every time , harlies 'might' work in a WWP list, but you'll want more than 5 ...

[powerm0nkey]

Nah, gotta stop you right there , harlies have to get within 3", and walk all the way there (unless portaling) they blow themselves up real bad when a tank goes up. I think DE players would have wept tears of joy If they could be bought a venom.

There is a third option by the way. Instead of footslogging or portaling, they can take a raider from a warrior squad. A warrior squad with a raider dedicated transport can disembark from their raider, set up in some cover or on an objective, and then give their raider to the harlequins. Just because the harlequins can't take a raider as a dedicated transport doesn't mean that they can't ride in a raider. This gives their melta an effective 18" range: 12" raider move, 2" disembark, 1" base, 3" for shooting.
And on a side note, harlequins with kisses are nothing to sneeze at in combat.

[Kiras of the flame]

If that's the case than you can try to add in a dark lance in that squad since nobody there will be moving much...