Gor-Rok, the Great White Lizard

[Gloomwhisker]

Hey all. I've been on a big Lizardmen kick lately, and despite the fact that I'm not one to typically use special characters, I'm really into Gor-Rok. That, and my planned army hails from the First City, Itza...so it all makes good sense. He's got some very cool and brutal background, and is just all all-round cool, in my opinion. Hence, I'd really love to make use of him in my army.

That said, what are your thoughts on him? From my point of view he's far, far away from being a ridiculously overpowered SC (which is something I'm very thankful for...), but I can see him being reasonably powerful, thanks in large part to the Shield of Aeons. Combined with his re-rolling To Hits in the first round of combats, thanks to the Mace of Ulamak, and his naturally great stats as a glorified Scar-Veteran....well, he seems quite alright. He is a bit on the pricey side, however.

In my view, he seems like a good, characterful, and potentially quite effective addition to my Itza-themed army. Throwing him in a solid unit of Saurus Warriors will make for a nasty proposition for most enemy units to engage, I think. It's true, he doesn't have a Ward save, but he is Resilient, making any successful to wound rolls against him be re-rolled, and also having an immunity to Killing Blow. I think he can be quite the tough customer. Ward saves can be negated...Gor-Rok's resiliency cannot.

So, Gor-Rok. By no means is he an "uber" special character, or a silly no-brainer choice, but strikes me as an effective and characterful addition. That said, I haven't totally made my mind up on him yet. That's what this thread is all about. What do you think of the mighty White Lizard? Could he be a worthwhile addition, for the most part, or should I re-think my view on him?

Gloomwhisker

[Hashulaman]

He seems more a friendly special character to me. I dabble in Lizardmen and have yet to find a use for him. If someone wants to use him for friendly games I say go for it.

[Glen_Savet]

He's not far overpowered, but he is overpriced. All of the Lizardmen characters are. You can get a similarly resilient Scar Veteran, and several more Saurus Warriors for the same points.

[Gloomwhisker]

Mhm, that's about what I thought. Thanks for the responses thus far, guys. That's really my main concern, that being that he's somewhat overpriced. With the relatively high points cost of so many of the Lizardmen characters and units, this could be an issue. That said, I don't think his high price is completely going to make or break a typical Lizardmen army. You're right, Hashulaman, he's by no means a tournament choice, for the most part, but in friendly games I'd love to bust him out.

That's a good point too, Glen_Savet, for the points it costs for Gor-Rok, one could definitely make a fairly survivable Scar-Vet and have room left for some additional Saurus Warriors. That said, I'm still a big fan of Gor-Rok's "Resilient" special rule, and in my experience, a defense like that(ie. one that can't be negated, unlike armour saves and even sometimes Ward saves), it's certainly worthwhile. It's not even close to a sure thing by any means, but I like the idea. The less save dice I have to roll, the better for me....if my saving rolls(of all kinds) don't magically improve on the tabletop. In the end, one of the rules-based reasons I really like him is the re-roll abilities, both for me on the attack, and for my opponent when trying to hit him. Re-rolls have historically proven to be my friend, rather than armour and Ward saves, which are my arch enemy

Thanks again!

Gloomwhisker

[Gloomwhisker]

I think the Shield of Aeons is really where Gor-Rok's strength lies. Always counting as being behind an obstacle when being attacked is pretty awesome, in my opinion. It's the seemingly little things like that that can really turn a combat....or so I've found.

Gloomwhisker

[Kroq9Gar]

In my opinion he's underestimated. He is a great roadblock for strength 3 troops. They need to roll a 6 to wound, and then re-roll that. Back that up by his 3+ armour save, he's pretty tough. Plus he's stubborn, and no-one gets a charge bonus. It would have to be great weapon wielders or monsters that could kill him, because most knights will still need 6's to wound. Admittedly he's 215 points, but in a 2000 point game I'd say it's worth it.

[Kayosiv]

Gor-Rok lost a lot of luster when 8th edition came out became the crown of command enabled any hero to make a unit stubborn, where as before he was the only way a lizardman player could get access to stubborn.

As is, he's fairly potent, but comes with his share of problems. His magical items and abilities are more than worth the 130 points he pays for them. Going by the prices in the main rulebook, stubborn is worth 35 points, and having wounds re-rolled against you is worth about 40. So he gets hatred, immunity to charge bonuses, and immunity to killing blow for 55 points, not too shabby. The issue is that he's a mediocre strength 5, and that the re-rolling of wounds by his enemies is his only defense other than a decent 3+ armor save. The higher his enemy strength comes from, the less he is protected. He is all but immune to strength 3 attacks. Only 1 out of 36 will successfully wound him, and he saves 2/3 of those with his armor save, meaning he'll be able to weather over 100 strength 3 attacks before he actually dies. But as strength goes up, re-rolled wounds will more often still hurt him and his armor save will be less effective.

I'm not sure that he is more points economical than an oldblood with the crown of command and a wardsave for around the same price. While he is stuck at strength 5 at least he will hit pretty reliably in the first round of CC. To me he seems like a great way to tie up a characterless knight unit or block chariots. In a unit to give them stubborn, I don't think he's better than just an average character equipped well.

On a side note, ALL lizardmen special characters are terrible, and not because they are over-priced. They're legitimately terrible because their equipment is non-optimal or their special rules are stupid. Then they are overpriced ON TOP of that.

For example; Mazdamundi, only has 1 discipline for some reason even though you can take up to 4. He has a special rule that grants him a battle standard that does nothing. Instead of just saying he must take the battle standard, they made him his very own special rule that forces him to do something that Slann could already do without that special rule. He also has another special rule that grants him loremaster, which is already a discipline that they could have given him. So he has a grand total of 2 special rules that allow him to do things that are already allowed in the normal rules.

Gor-Rok however, is an exception. He may be a little pricey, but he's also got a host of unique abilities. He will help out any unit he is in, and can also be delployed or charge out on his own to hold up things that are only good on the charge. While perhaps not being as capable as 20 Sauru or a similarly equipped oldblood, he does excel in certain situations. Worried about that tomb king chariot unit or those dragon princes? Send Gor-rok to laugh at their pitiful attempts to hurt him without their charge bonuses. Get challenged by a bretonian lord with heroic killing blow, send Gor-rok to show him what for. He might not excel in every situation, but he is in my opinion the ONLY lizardman special character even worth considering taking to a battle you are trying to win.

[warplock]

Tricksters helm does the same thing as his Reslience, though, doesn't it? And it adds +1 armour save. You could stick a scar vet on a cold one with an AHW and the tricksters helm, and they're faster, stronger, and have a better armour save than Gor-Rok, and they cost almost 50 points less! Admittedly, he is stubborn, but the Scar Vet can pretty reliably get 3 to 4 kills anyway against T3 infantry. That is, unless I've forgotten some of Gor-Rok's stats.
I really dislike the LM special characters...

[venomx51]

He's the only sc. that I've ever considered using. If you take all of his abilities and cost them up, he's quite well priced. But then, you could get 2 scar vet's for his price; One of them with the stubborn-granting enchanted item. Which to be honest is what I'd do given the choice.

Do cavalry have to make a dangerous terrain test if they charge a unit behind cover, or did I just dream that? If so that's a potential bonus there from his shield.

[T10]

He is a rather expensive way to get a second Stubborn model into the army, and his cost goes towards Heroes in stead of Lords. I guess he's a more obvious choice if you first take a regular Lord with the Crown of Command and find yourself looking to buy a second durable regiment.

His shield isn't particularilly great. Back in 7th he would be able to negate the strike-first bonus for charging, meaning that great weapons would strike later than him, and spears and lances would lose the strength bonus.

Since he counts as being behind an obstacle cavalry, monstrous cavalry and chariot models THAT WISH TO ATTACK HIM have take a dangerous terrain test when they charge. Seriously, how is that going to work? You declare the charge, move the models in and then say: these models will attack him?

Also, while he counts as being behind an obstacle, most bonuses are dependent on what type of obstacle this is. Is it a wall or fence (-1 to hit)? Or a blessed bulwark, or a blazing barricade?

-t10

[Yamabushi]

A wall, it is covered in the Lizzie FAQ

[N810]

Yea he's about the best of out terrible special characters, basicly he's an expensive specializes scar-vet,
a good choice if you are puting him in a big unit of saurus, and another character wth the helm of command in the other.