Eagle eye add +6 inches to all Missle weapons of the hero, but does this also work with a Blunderbuss? or does it only apply to the weapons under "missle weapons", or does it also apply to all black powder as well?
Eagle eye add +6 inches to all Missle weapons of the hero, but does this also work with a Blunderbuss? or does it only apply to the weapons under "missle weapons", or does it also apply to all black powder as well?
"People say Ideas are more powerful then weapons,
if we do not allow our enemies to have weapons,
why allow our enemies to have ideas?"
- josef stalin
i've always taken it to mean that it refers to any ranged weapon unless explicitly stated otherwise.
Last edited by whiskeytango; 01-09-2011 at 03:11.
Going by RAW the blunderbuss is effectively not affected by Eagle Eyes because the blunderbuss has no range per se - only a template that starts at the model and goes for 16". Eagle Eyes adds 6" to the range stat of a weapon and a blunderbuss has no range stat.
In my circle we decided that RAW lead to a sensible enough result i.e. a template weapon not getting a bigger template because the person firing could aim better so we left it at that.
It doesn't not have a range stat, it just has a "special" range stat, most likely just because they didn't want to fit "16" long, 1" wide hitting everything in between" in the short description.
And anyways, it sounds like you're going by RAI, not RAW, as it never states that its a template weapon, just that its a black powder weapon with a wide shot. Also, RAW says "...adds +6" to the range of ANY missile weapon...". A blunderbuss is a missile weapon (unless you want to say that black powder weapons don't qualify as missile weapons, which is ridiculous), therefor eagle eyes adds +6" to its range.
I didn't say it didn't have a range, I said it didn't have a range per se by which I meant it doesn't have a range stat - and it doesn't. What it has is, as you pointed out, a range of "special". All the other ranged weapons have a range of a particular number e.g. 10, 24, 30, etc. You can add 6 to any of those numbers, you can't add 6 to 'special'. Well, not without trying to decide what they intended rather than going by what they wrote anyway
Granted, it doesn't specifically *say* it is a template weapon, but it *does* say that it hits things by instructing you to draw a certain shape oriented from the model and that everything inside the shape is automatically hit. Looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, etc.
TLDR: RAW Eagle Eyes doesn't interact with the blunderbuss Shot special rule because it only affects range. Feel free to RAI or house-rule it to do so, though.
Just some stuff to make it longerOriginally Posted by Mordheim Rule Book: Blunderbuss
I don't think eagle eye should work with a blunderbuss.
But having read Lord O's argument I think he is pushing it to say that eagle eye shouldn't work with it by RAW. You have a good enough argument Lord O but (IMO) it's far from strong enough to claim that it is conclusive.
My RAW is more along the lines of, yes the range is special but it is a special range that you CAN add 6". In fact I can't really see any reason why you can't add 6" to this special range. While the word special isn't a number, it does in this case clearly and undoubtedly refer to a number that can easily have 6 added to it.
That being said, I would NOT want to ever play with eagle eye adding range to a blunderbuss. In fact, I wouldn't really want to play with a club that wasn't willing to do at least some 'rewritting' of the mordhiem rules. The mordhiem rules are very old, unsupported and not very well written in may places from the start anyway - if you want to play this game sucessfully then IMO you need to be using RAI at the very least and probally also streight up making up house rules.
We have always played it doesn't work. Indeed, I was pretty sure the rules said it didn't work... but I don't see it anywhere (just looked).
Well personally I've never played with the two colluding, but all I was trying to say was that I don't really feel like theres any basis for them not being able to.
No clear wording on this. The original rules are full of holes like that. But:
Fairness = Doesn't work.
Fluff = Doesn't work-
If a dwarf warband gets a blunderbuss and has an engineer:
Does this effect a blunderbuss at all? I'm thinking 'no', but I'd like to hear some rules-lawyering.Expert Weaponsmith: A Dwarf Engineer is a master of mechanical devices. By using stronger construction materials and time-tested secrets of Dwarf engineering, a Dwarf Engineer can increase the distance the warband’s missile weapons can shoot. All Dwarf missile weapons in the warband have their range increased by 3" for Pistols and 6" for Crossbows and Handguns. Any range increases are only maintained as long as the Dwarf Engineer remains with the warband.
And will it effect things like dueling pistols, warplock pistols, hochland long-rifles, etc?
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in that case, i think it can safely be assumed "no", because it specifically states the ones it does work with. I think it can be inferred that dueling/warplock pistols will work with it, as they're classified as pistols, in the same way that it can be inferred that when something says it works with a "bow" it means all bows, not just the ones specifically called a bow. Long-Rifles are up for more interpretation. It seems like they're just a giant handgun, but they're never technically described that way, so it could be argued that if you're not allowing a blunderbuss because it isn't specifically stated in the description of the rule, that the same would go for Long-Rifles.
Would you class a crossbow pistol as a crossbow or a pistol? The rules-lawery thing would be to interpret as both so getting 9". I don't think anyone would accept that though.
No it does not work. It was put in an FAQ a while back.
Eagle Eyes Can not affect a blunderbuss as a blunderbuss does not have a ballastic skill.
Per an old FAQ that is downloadable in the rules sections under "FAQ"
Q. Does the “Eagle Eye” skill increase the
range of a blunderbuss?
This seems silly, since the weapon is not
affected by ballistic skill.
http://www.sg.tacticalwargames.net/forum/index.php
Go to the Mordheim board and look for FAQ and click on it.
Crossbow pistols counts as a pistol
From Mordheim FAQ.
Q. Does the “Eagle Eye” skill increase the
range of a blunderbuss?
A:This seems silly, since the weapon is not
affected by ballistic skill.
Old thread but I figure I'll throw in my ratty two cents...eagle eye in theory increases ones skill, hence maximum range. A blunderbuss is in effect a shotgun. Due to the nature of a shotgun, increased accuracy has no bearing on range for this weapon type...if you insist in giving the BB an eagle eye bonus I would say raise the strength of the hit or something to reflect the devastating nature of a face full of hot nails. If you want more range from a BB, maybe try house ruling improved black powder adds a few inches (more concussive force and whatnot.). I dunno, we usually try to think more along the lines of logic over RAW, but it has gotten us in trouble before
I agree, it's best to stick with logic and gamesmanship. To my mind, eagle eye covers elven-like abilities to snipe at long range and a blunderbuss is hardly the type of weapon to benefit from such skills. 6" is a large increase in Mordheim tbh... I'd be all like, no way girlfriend!
I agree that eagle eye wouldn't work on the blunderbus. By fluff it's the marksmanship of the hero which is improved - not the power of the gunpowder . But you could argue that Superior Black Powder increase the range by the same modifier as eagle eyes gives for all long ranged black powder weapons (ie. Handgun, Hochland long rifle, blunderbus)...
we alawys played that eagle eye only increased ranged weapons in the "Missle Weapon" section. so not black powder weapons
I think you mean sportsmanship, not gamesmanship
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