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Thread: Path of the Seer cover art

  1. #21

    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    Quote Originally Posted by eldargal View Post
    Very pretty, thanks for posting. I just hope she isn't killed off, atthe rate at which female Eldar are killed its amazing there are any left*.
    no no, she needs to have here eyeballs fall out first and be all blind-seer-bleeding-sockets

    it's like every female farseer wishes to be Zogwart.
    Quote Originally Posted by philbrad2
    SgtTaters,
    I suggest you reduce the insinuations and 'rubbed' comments

  2. #22
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    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    Isn't the "Farseer" an exarch title? She'd just be a "Seer"? Warlock infers it's a dual spec Aspect-Seer.

    Eldar were designed for RPGs.
    Technically, no. But yes functionally a Farseer is very much like an Exarch - i.e. an Eldar that's gotten trapped on a path. In this case, the Path of the Seer.

    Warlocks are those individuals on the Path of the Seer who have previously been on one of the Aspect paths.

  3. #23
    Chapter Master Col. Tartleton's Avatar
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    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    Eyes blowing out is a central rule of 40k when talking about psykers. Why?

    It's Soooo METAL. Head exploding is kind of silly. Words being carved into your skin, projectile vomiting blood, clawing one's eyes out, limbs bending at unnatural angles, rocking back and forth in a pool of one's urine...



    That's what Psyker powers are all about.
    Trying to figure out how to play 9th Age with round bases...

  4. #24
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    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    Quote Originally Posted by Eumerin View Post
    It's the Emperor's Pointy Sticks.

    :P
    Hah!

    I guess the Eldar fans should just be relieved that their colors weren't green and black, else that would be the end of that Craftworld.

  5. #25
    Chapter Master MajorWesJanson's Avatar
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    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    If it was the Pointy Sticks, there would be purple in the color mix too.

    As for the curved vs straight rune lines, I see it as just being cursive vs normal writing. One is used for clarity and identification, the other more for style and personalization. Eldar being Eldar, they just take it to extremes, with their plain font being stylized runes, and their cursive version looking like illuminated text.
    "As I've always said, Wes is wise." - Scryer in the Darkness
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    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton View Post
    Isn't the "Farseer" an exarch title? She'd just be a "Seer"? Warlock infers it's a dual spec Aspect-Seer.

    Eldar were designed for RPGs.
    Farseer just means she is trapped on the Path, but then Korlandril gets trapped quickly as well. There isn't any requirement per se that all Farseers have to be old and turning to crystal. So far in the first novel there are already multiple mentions of her inexperience.

    Warlocks are a type of Seer that has a prerequisite of having previously been an Aspect Warrior. They receive their Warlock helmets at their old Aspect Shrine when they need to don them. It is their previous experience as Aspect Warriors that allows them to control that destructive dark side of their psyche and wield their destructive psychic powers.


    As for the rune shapes and writing, Eldar hierograms as mentioned in the Eldar Codex and with similar curved forms in the Dark Eldar Codex resembles hieratic writing:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ed...Papyrus_v2.jpg

    There are ligatures between individual glyphs.

    Whereas the rigid runes inscriptions in the Eldar Codex more resembles:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pa...curs_hiero.jpg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:XiaozhuanQinquan.jpg

    Each individual glyph or word is separate and distinct.

    For the rationale that one is less formal, it raises the question of why should a Farseer be using less formal representations in their formal role of being a Farseer, particularly when this role involves manipulating the warp?

    Ancient Egyptians used hieroglyphs for the most formal documents with hieratic and later demotic being ever less formal forms used in everyday administration or communication. Since Farseers are stylistically and conceptually the equivalent to religious high priests or prophets, why shouldn't they be using the most formal and rigid runes? Similarly if one were to liken the runes to Chinese calligraphy for example, the more flowing cursive forms were used in private or for artistic/poetic reasons, but in formal official government situations they were not used. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cur_eg.svg See the right side for an example. Hardly legible, and more for aesthetic reasons).
    Last edited by Iracundus; 02-12-2010 at 23:36.

  7. #27
    Chapter Master HK-47's Avatar
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    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    I don't really understand why people are complaining about the runes, considering who many different forms of calligraphy we humans have, the Eldar would obviously also have different styles.

    What I want to know his how her character is going to be presented, because in Path of the Warrior I really didn't like her. She felt really stuck up and arrogant.
    You walk outside, you risk your life. You take a drink of water, you risk your life. Nowadays you breath and you risk your life. You don’t have a choice. The only thing you can choose is what you’re risking it for...

  8. #28
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    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Tartleton
    Eldar were designed for RPGs.
    That really depends on who does it.

    Kage

  9. #29
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    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    Quote Originally Posted by HK-47 View Post
    What I want to know his how her character is going to be presented, because in Path of the Warrior I really didn't like her. She felt really stuck up and arrogant.
    I didn't get that impression, personally. I got the impression that Korlandril was stuck up and arrogant, and as a result he perceived any disagreement with him by her as arrogance on her part.


    Korlandril came across as rather petulant where she was concerned, and since he was the viewpoint character imo that colored the way that she was presented.

  10. #30
    Chapter Master HK-47's Avatar
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    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    Quote Originally Posted by Eumerin View Post
    I didn't get that impression, personally. I got the impression that Korlandril was stuck up and arrogant, and as a result he perceived any disagreement with him by her as arrogance on her part.


    Korlandril came across as rather petulant where she was concerned, and since he was the viewpoint character imo that colored the way that she was presented.
    I actually agree with you on Korlandril. He was childish and quick to jealous before he became a Striking Scorpion, but sometimes when the two characters where talking I got this feeling that Thirianna was also being rather hypocritical. She tries to come off as the more mature Eldar, but she really comes off as an ice queen.
    You walk outside, you risk your life. You take a drink of water, you risk your life. Nowadays you breath and you risk your life. You don’t have a choice. The only thing you can choose is what you’re risking it for...

  11. #31
    Chapter Master eldargal's Avatar
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    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    Yes, although this calligraphy is unprecedented in Eldar art, we hardly have a perfect knowledge of Eldar art to begin with. I think its pretty and it looks Eldaresque so I'm all for it.
    Last edited by eldargal; 03-12-2010 at 07:22.
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  12. #32
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    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    Well, considering the gray runes of the Eldar Codex background, I don't see why anybody should complain. Also the logic that a "prophet" should be "most rigid" in the style of his runes doesn't appear to me. We don't even know if maybe swung runes represent a much higher level of "correctness" or "tradition" than mechanically perfect straight ones (hell, something that actually *is* hand-made must be kinda rare in Eldar society, since they have tech for everything!). Human logic has nothing to do with Eldar art in the end and it is free to any artist to interpret it as they wish. And honestly I can only say it is good to see such detailed master-crafted piece of art about a Farseer, no matter how strict the runes are or not. Nobody has defined how the painted runes on a Farseer should be shaped or what colours the cloths should contain.
    Last edited by Hendarion; 03-12-2010 at 07:20.

  13. #33
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    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    All depictions of Warlocks and Farseers both in art and actual models have thus far to date used the rigid runes, from Mark Gibbons' Warlock in 2nd edition to the more recent versions in the later editions of the Eldar Codex. There is thus established precedent for use of structured runes.

    The claim to the gray background Eldar runes was already addressed earlier in this thread. Though the runes there are somewhat fluid they remain distinct glyphs separate in and of themselves. See earlier posts for the comparisons to to things like Chinese seal script or cursive Egyptian hieroglyphs. This is a distinction from script that has ligatures or blends together into seeming illegible squiggles, like Chinese cursive "grass" calligraphy.

  14. #34
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    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    Quote Originally Posted by HK-47 View Post
    I actually agree with you on Korlandril. He was childish and quick to jealous before he became a Striking Scorpion, but sometimes when the two characters where talking I got this feeling that Thirianna was also being rather hypocritical. She tries to come off as the more mature Eldar, but she really comes off as an ice queen.
    Ice Queen as in bursting into tears when her best friend and (desired if not actual) lover acts like a complete and total ****** to her before running off to find a new girlfriend before half a day has passed? Yeah, I don't see it myself. edit: note that this is after he became a Striking Scorpion, seems like all that training to control his anger really didn't do anything for all the other character defects.

    When I read the book my impressions were that she was a pretty normal woman really but Korlandril, seriously, was a self absorbed, self serving, arrogant, whiny little **** who never cared for anything but his own happiness. What ends up happening to him is some awesome cosmic justice imo.



    edit: Um, just so everyone knows those swearwords aren't as bad as the censoring might lead you to assume. They do, however, still sum up Korlandril quite nicely though.
    Last edited by webba84; 03-12-2010 at 09:43.

  15. #35

    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    The artwork is awesome. I think I just jizzed in my pants...
    Quote Originally Posted by SimonL View Post
    I'm more amazed by the fact people can make serious debates over the validness and structure of an argument in the same thread that includes a pic of Marneus Calgar riding his Carnifex-clone and preparing to "organofist" an Avatar...
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    hopefully he didnt talk about the age old tactic of holding the flanks and surprising the enemy with a sudden assault from the rear

  16. #36
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    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    Quote Originally Posted by Iracundus View Post
    All depictions of Warlocks and Farseers both in art and actual models have thus far to date used the rigid runes, from Mark Gibbons' Warlock in 2nd edition to the more recent versions in the later editions of the Eldar Codex. There is thus established precedent for use of structured runes.
    So... the interpretation of one artist counts, but of another does not count. Honestly? So far all drawings of Warlocks and Farseers have used a single colour for the robe. So that means the robes are not allowed to be made of brocade? No, it doesn't. Not unless there is a restrictive set of fluff that won't allow it to be any different than that. Does it exist? No. So, Farseers and Warlocks may look whatever an Artist or Designer wants them to look like. That is the only valid truth.

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    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendarion View Post
    So... the interpretation of one artist counts, but of another does not count. Honestly? So far all drawings of Warlocks and Farseers have used a single colour for the robe. So that means the robes are not allowed to be made of brocade? No, it doesn't. Not unless there is a restrictive set of fluff that won't allow it to be any different than that. Does it exist? No. So, Farseers and Warlocks may look whatever an Artist or Designer wants them to look like. That is the only valid truth.
    I never said it was just one artist. If you had read my previous posts accurately, I had mentioned that all previous depictions of Warlocks and Farseers from the first Mark Gibbons original to all later depictions have used the same formalized rigid runes, which certainly establishes an ongoing trend and precedent. If there is a sudden break from all past precedent and known forms, then it is legitimate to raise the issue and the question, just as the issue of the Dire Avenger rune dangling off Korlandril's pistol was raised when that piece of artwork first came out. You are also mistaken regarding single monotone colors as the depiction of the Saim-Hann Farseer model in the latest Eldar Codex for example features no less than 4 robe colors with an additional 5th for trim detail. However for all the times that there is writing it is in the rigid rune form, or in the 1 example again of the Saim-Hann Farseer's robe trim, in the same form as the gray background in the Codex. However that is again distinct single glyphs as already mentioned, not flowing linked lines.

    Your mentioning of brocade is irrelevant to the issue. It is also below the resolution of depiction for both artwork and models. There are curlicues in the armor detailing for the art for Korlandril yet clearly these are too small to be depicted on the model or the less zoomed in previous artwork of Striking Scorpions.
    Last edited by Iracundus; 03-12-2010 at 11:13.

  18. #38
    Chapter Master eldargal's Avatar
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    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    She thought the relationship couldn't progress beyond friendship, he couldn't cope. He throws a monumental hissy fit, makes her feel terrible and then does something stupid, ultimately
    . The people who liked him call her a frigid b*tch.

    Its like all my high school friendships all over again.
    Last edited by eldargal; 03-12-2010 at 11:45.
    In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only British.
    Actual (alleged) girl. Alpha Female.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jes Goodwin
    They breed more anyway, its a pretty rough place, Commoragh, there's a lot of it going off.

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    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    Quote Originally Posted by Iracundus View Post
    I never said it was just one artist. If you had read my previous posts accurately, I had mentioned that all previous depictions of Warlocks and Farseers from the first Mark Gibbons original to all later depictions have used the same formalized rigid runes, which certainly establishes an ongoing trend and precedent. If there is a sudden break from all past precedent and known forms, then it is legitimate to raise the issue and the question, just as the issue of the Dire Avenger rune dangling off Korlandril's pistol was raised when that piece of artwork first came out. You are also mistaken regarding single monotone colors as the depiction of the Saim-Hann Farseer model in the latest Eldar Codex for example features no less than 4 robe colors with an additional 5th for trim detail. However for all the times that there is writing it is in the rigid rune form, or in the 1 example again of the Saim-Hann Farseer's robe trim, in the same form as the gray background in the Codex. However that is again distinct single glyphs as already mentioned, not flowing linked lines.

    Your mentioning of brocade is irrelevant to the issue. It is also below the resolution of depiction for both artwork and models. There are curlicues in the armor detailing for the art for Korlandril yet clearly these are too small to be depicted on the model or the less zoomed in previous artwork of Striking Scorpions.
    Once again your are making your personal opinion the only valid truth. Face it, there is no damn truth about how a Farseer should look or how his runes should be shaped. It depends on the artist. Some will make all things straight and one-coloured (Mark Gibbons for example), others will make it chaotic (Blanche). Others will make it fluid or look hand-made.
    I repeat:
    It depends on the artist.
    PERIOD!

    Brocade is not bejond the limit of Artwork, as you can see on the new picture for the book. But you won't find many other older pictures with such patterns. So what does that tell us or what does it imply? Nothing except that one drawing or even a hundred drawings will not say anything about how a Farseer is allowed to look like or not. Another artist will always be free to give it the details he wants and it will still be valid. Why is that? Because he works for GW just like the other artists. Everything from GW will receive the official stamp.

    PS: Check page #1 of 3rd Edition Eldar Codex. The belt of the Farseer shows what? Oh damn, it shows fluidly shaped language-runes. Page 3 shows fluid pictograms of Alaitoc. Page 7 shows slightly fluidly shaped pictograms on the Farseer and on the Scorpion's helmet. Page 38 shows curled runes on a helmet (Blanche I guess), Page 43 shows a Reaper helmet with fluid pictograms.
    2nd Edi, page 2, a farseer with curled runes. Page 25 again fluid farseer runes.
    So... err... what exact precedence you got? You accept only drawings of Gibbons, but not of Blanche?
    Last edited by Hendarion; 03-12-2010 at 11:56.

  20. #40

    Re: Path of the Seer cover art

    Through numerous conversations with Jes on the topic, I know that he envisages three styles of eldar 'runography'. There may be examples of all three in his artbook 'The Gothic and the Eldritch', I can't recall.

    The first is the highly formal, linear style that most are familiar with. Each is a strong word-concept like an Aspect, craftworld and so on.

    The second are the cartouche-style pictographic plates with a much more cursive feel. These are familial titles, names of starships and titans (as noted earlier), and so on, and convey a large amount of information in a relatively small space.

    The third is interconnected lines of runes, either angular or cursive, which are the closest thing to normal writing that they have. There was quite a lot of this style used in the graphics of the 3rd ed skinnydex.

    I've played about with the idea of runes and their presentation at the start of Path of the Seer when Thirianna is still a poet, creating 3-d verses that loop about on themselves, the runes constructed in such a way that they have different meanings depending on the angle from which they are viewed - a more complex version of the third category. Quite how that might work in practical terms I have no idea, but it sounds eldary and cool!

    Cheers,

    Gav

    P.S. As for how much of an ice maiden Thirianna is, you'll have to read the novel

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