'Crazily Religious' and 'Technologically Advanced'; An army of the Empire (Stirland)

[vinush]

True, but new army book, new challenges. I'm ever the optimist. lol.

It's a shame I didn't have a third unit of halberdiers painted up, otherwise I could go with that...

THE \/ince

[Superdan21]

I am yet to have the book in person yet as my postman isn't very good but i have had a decent read through of my friends overall i'm not to worried, little annoyed about some of the points increases but on the whole I like it. i like that detachments now do count towards the 25% core choice, and hte more varied choice with some heroes is good, i have to disagree with you in someways here with the idea of a theme, i did a similar thing with WP's over Wizards but i find it such a cheap tactic being able to dispell everything and not very themed still each to their own :P

Only thing im not to sure on is the new steam tank rules, i like that it's cheaper but i think my rare may change to 2 helblasters with an engineer as they seem more reliable now and and engineer just gives that little more safety. I need to have a good look at the rules for luminarc/huricanum and war alter but I'm looking forward to mixing up my horde and artillery army to something a little more, destructive/risky?

With regards to competitiveness only thing i personally think empire will struggle with is skaven, but when me and my friend played against our friends skaven we realised they are a truly disgusting army (i don't want to say broken in case i upset people on your blog :P)

Anyway just some of my thoughts compared to yours :P still not happy about my army points increasing by like 250 points just with the same stuff ah well, it will be good to see what people do with the new book

[Belegar]

I do not have the new Empire book, but I am not glad to read that you do not like it............
Maybe when you play a couple of games you will find "new" things that do work with the new book?

The new models are great, so you can still convert and paint.
But you already said that you wouldn't stop.

My personal favourite at the moment are the Demigryph Knights.
Maybe it is time to start a new Knightly order............

All the best.

[Astraeos]

Glad to hear all those magic items are still around. To be honest I was confident about Van Horstmann's Speculum and the Runefang, but the Armour of Meteroic Iron I thought was bound to go, seeing as there's the Armour of Silvered steel in the main rulebook. Well, Hildegarde Engel will breathe a sigh of relief.
Wait a minute, what about the Dawn Armour!? Geirhardt von Krieger will be most displeased if that was removed from his personal armoury! Is the Grey Wand still round? I promised my new wizard that he'd get to use it!
....
What do you mean they're just models?

[Malcador]

For example: I took the exact same list I used in the battle against Malcador's Skaven from last week and calculated it's points cost using the new book. Using the old book it came to 2198 points, using the new book I reached 2406 points. Nearly a 10% increase with little to no improvements to show for it... Apart from the Warrior Priests (which got cheaper) and the Master Engineer (which stayed the same) every single Character and unit I used got more expensive. Furthermore, with the removal of a single unit of Flagellants from the core section (a special rule for the Warrior Priests), my list is now illegal as I no longer reach the required minimum 25% core units and exceed the 50% limit on special units... It was a hard fought battle to begin with, which went my way due to a few lucky moments but which could easily have ended in bloody defeat. I don't see how I could have defeated the Skaven (or even put up a decent fight) while using the new book and a list even remotely resembling the one I used...

To this, I have just thing to say:

[Boreas_NL]

Thanks for the feedback!

I am yet to have the book in person yet as my postman isn't very good but i have had a decent read through of my friends overall i'm not to worried, little annoyed about some of the points increases but on the whole I like it. i like that detachments now do count towards the 25% core choice, and hte more varied choice with some heroes is good, i have to disagree with you in someways here with the idea of a theme, i did a similar thing with WP's over Wizards but i find it such a cheap tactic being able to dispell everything and not very themed still each to their own :P

Only thing im not to sure on is the new steam tank rules, i like that it's cheaper but i think my rare may change to 2 helblasters with an engineer as they seem more reliable now and and engineer just gives that little more safety. I need to have a good look at the rules for luminarc/huricanum and war alter but I'm looking forward to mixing up my horde and artillery army to something a little more, destructive/risky?

With regards to competitiveness only thing i personally think empire will struggle with is skaven, but when me and my friend played against our friends skaven we realised they are a truly disgusting army (i don't want to say broken in case i upset people on your blog :P)

Anyway just some of my thoughts compared to yours :P still not happy about my army points increasing by like 250 points just with the same stuff ah well, it will be good to see what people do with the new book

Well spoken... There are still options to be considered when using the new book and I even found some things I would actually like to try... Skaven are bad, m'kay.

I do not have the new Empire book, but I am not glad to read that you do not like it............
Maybe when you play a couple of games you will find "new" things that do work with the new book?

The new models are great, so you can still convert and paint.
But you already said that you wouldn't stop.

My personal favourite at the moment are the Demigryph Knights.
Maybe it is time to start a new Knightly order............

All the best.

Thanks! When will you continue work on your Empire plog? It has been way too long...

Glad to hear all those magic items are still around. To be honest I was confident about Van Horstmann's Speculum and the Runefang, but the Armour of Meteroic Iron I thought was bound to go, seeing as there's the Armour of Silvered steel in the main rulebook. Well, Hildegarde Engel will breathe a sigh of relief.
Wait a minute, what about the Dawn Armour!? Geirhardt von Krieger will be most displeased if that was removed from his personal armoury! Is the Grey Wand still round? I promised my new wizard that he'd get to use it!
....
What do you mean they're just models?

I'm affraid I must disappoint you... Both the Dawn Armour and the Grey Wand have disappeared from the book...

To this, I have just thing to say:

I thought you would say that...

Anyway, time for some updates!


After much complaining it's time to move on (it's not that it's going to solve or change anything)... Even Sigmar seems to agree and he has sent some of his devout followers to 'convince' me to continue the modernisation and arming of Stirland (Averland beware)!


My new Warrior Priest (from the War Altar kit) and both my Witch Hunters... Both the Finecast Witch Hunter and the plastic Warrior Priest are very nice models.

The new plastic Master Engineer has also found a place in my army...


Here he can be seen directing the fire of my Great Cannon...


The model fits just perfectly... The new plastic model replaces the old metal Leonardo who will undoubtedly find another job soon! I'll probably get another one of these models soon, as his Hochland Longrifle is very nice and it would be a waste not to use one in my army!

Thanks for watching! More updates coming soon! As always, your feedback is greatly appreciated, so please let me know what you think, and, if you're feeling adventurous, feel free to rate my thread...

[gonzosbignose]

As if your terrain doesn't make me feel inadequate enough, you then go on to create master pieces like this.

honestly, my sincerest hats of to you boreas... you never fail to amaze me.

regards

My name is Daniel and I am a wargamer

[Tuttivillus]

Aaahhh.... nice, that engineer fits onto Your GREAT Cannon perfectly. I also like that WPriest from WAltar set.

[Astraeos]

That engineer looks like he was made especially for your cannon Boreas! Shame the rumours about the giant siege cannon didn't pan out though. And the ones about Morr and Ulric priests and that female special character.

Bit of a shame about losing Dawn Armour and the Grey Wand. I never even got to try them out!

[Demoulius]

IM bummed out over the loss of those items... Did the armour of tarnus(sp) go as well? Does our army still have a discount on some of the magic items from the main rulebook?

And why hasent my copy arrived yet? I PRE-ordered it for crying out loud!

[Scythe]

Good to see you back working on Empire, Boreas. The new book sounds like a big disappointment (I will get my copy later this week), but it is good to see you continuing work on the army anyway. I will keep collecting, but I can't see how this book will reel in many new players, or persuade many old players to expand / update their army, which is a true shame.

That said, nice work! The engineer looks very natural on your big cannon, and the witchhunter conversion looks simple, but very effective and characterful.

[vinush]

I can confirm that Empire haven't been defanged. I used mine against skaven last night and beat them.

[Astraeos]

IM bummed out over the loss of those items... Did the armour of tarnus(sp) go as well? Does our army still have a discount on some of the magic items from the main rulebook?

And why hasent my copy arrived yet? I PRE-ordered it for crying out loud!

They changed this a while back. For some reason GW didn't like that people were getting stuff early when they pre-ordered it so now pre-orders are dispatched AFTER it's release date! If you reserve items through a GW hobby centre you can go and pick them up on the day of release.

[FBI]

I wrote this about a week ago when I was still looking forward to getting my hands on the new Empire book (and trying hard not to get all negative about all the rumours, hoping some details might have been missed or stuff got mixed up). However, after giving the whole book a thorough readthrough I must admit that I'm very, very dissapointed. Sure, there are some improvements but in my opinion they don't weigh up to the serious drawbacks of this book. Apart from the new rules, there is precious little new background or fluff to be found in the new book. There are a few nice new pieces of artwork but most of the stuff is straight from the old book (or even from the one before that). In that respect (even though it's now in full colour), the book is just a waste of paper: it looks nice, but that's all...

My main concern isn't the point increase of most of the units, though that's certainly something that will seriously handicap the army.
For example: I took the exact same list I used in the battle against Malcador's Skaven from last week and calculated it's points cost using the new book. Using the old book it came to 2198 points, using the new book I reached 2406 points. Nearly a 10% increase with little to no improvements to show for it... Apart from the Warrior Priests (which got cheaper) and the Master Engineer (which stayed the same) every single Character and unit I used got more expensive. Furthermore, with the removal of a single unit of Flagellants from the core section (a special rule for the Warrior Priests), my list is now illegal as I no longer reach the required minimum 25% core units and exceed the 50% limit on special units... It was a hard fought battle to begin with, which went my way due to a few lucky moments but which could easily have ended in bloody defeat. I don't see how I could have defeated the Skaven (or even put up a decent fight) while using the new book and a list even remotely resembling the one I used...

My main problem is that the new book limits the approach of building an effective (not auto win, but having a fair chance ánd a good game) Empire army and eliminates the options of having a fluffy and styled army (though that might just be my point of view as all of the units, characters and war machines I have in my collection somehow got worse, more expensive, totally useless or a combination of those three).
I personally dislike the use of Wizards (again, just my point of view) and used my Warrior Priest to provide me with some form of protection against magic (amongst other reasons). Now, it seems, you must include Wizards to help you with warding of enemy magic. That really bugs me to no end... Some characters or units are now almost mandatory in order to create an effective army while the old book offered many different approaches (most of which I tried for myself with wildy varying results). Some might call this synergy, coherency or even internal balance, I call it something else (too rude to type here)...

The increase in Special units is another thing I thoroughly dislike: Huntsmen were good as core unit (upgrade for standard Archers) and I included them in my army on a regular basis, but now they are a special choice they just aren't good enough. The Flagellants also have no place in the special section of the army and they should have stayed a rare unit... However, that problem is easily solved (see, I'm still trying to be positive) as some of the special units are now so useless or overpriced (or both) that they aren't worth considering... At least we have plenty of options, that's good, right?

However there are some things I do like: On first glance, the new Demigryph Knights seem to be quite nice (and the models look good, too), the addition of Witch Hunters to the list is something most, if not all, Empire players will approve of and even if the option of giving Master Engineers access to magical equipment is not based on the background and somewhat useless now there are only a couple of magic items left in the book (the ones in the BRB are a little bland for my tastes), it still is one of the few improvements to be found... The Warrior Priest's prayers are also more usefull (although that might be open to discussion) and the decrease of points is very, very nice indeed (which might warrant the loss of the generated dispell dice). The introduction of the new 'Hold the Line' special rule is also nice, even if it means your infantry will just hang on a turn longer to get completely slaughtered by your enemy. It at least saves you the trouble of running away and your opponent doesn't have to chase them off the table...

There are many things I don't understand. Why certain choices been have made and why those changes were required? I would really have liked to see some sort of designer notes in last month's WD (like they used to do with the release of each new book). Although I don't want to sound overly negative (my list of 'complaints' is much longer and it includes, but it's not limited to, Mortars, State Troops, the Steamtank), I'm still having a very hard time to see the positive side of things... Apart from the models, which are very nice indeed, I would rather skip this book (which means keep using the old book or stop playing until there is a new book in a couple of years)... It doesn't mean I'm quitting Empire however, I am much too fond of my army to stop collecting, building and converting... Think you can get me to see the positive side of the new book (it must be there, right?), be my guest, you are more than welcome to change my mind...

PS: I already found another positive side of the new book, I'll be spending more time on my Mordheim scenery so expect updates soon!

Boreas. You realy surpassed yourself in that rant. I have just spend the weekend reading the new book. And though it looks grimm at a first glance, i see some light at the end of the tunnel. The point increases are nasty, yes. But i get most of them. The old points for your arty were based on the fact that you still had to gues ranges, and in a time were there were partials. To all possibility you S-2 mortar is still deadlier then the S-3 one was in the version 7. The time for cheap laser guided arty is over. (now i need to stop before falling into a rant of my own)
I started about lights; the biggest light i`m seeing is the way you can boost your units of troops. Your big blocks of halbardiers and Greatswords were deadly in the last book. I know, i found out the hard way. The captains you were using now make you units cold blooded, instead of only keeping the warrior priests safe from challengers. The warrior priests themselves still give that nasty hatered to your units, but now on a reduced price. Add a witchhunter to protect against enemy characters. they are no chaos lords or vampires in killing potential. But have a good chance in them giving more trouble to your enemies then they are worth.
Then, there are the two wizard chariots. The fact they cast their bound spells is just a extra in my opinion. The area effects they have are much better. One gives a wardsave. That is nice for keeping your down to earth soldiers alife for slightly longer. The other one is much better. It gives you a +1 to hit. Put that one in between two big blocks of infantry, and watch sparks fly. I know there are wizards on top of it. But let me insert a little idea into your head. There is no wizard as crew on either, when fielding them as rare choices. Just a pair of acolytes. Acolytes who might be serving another organisation, instead of a college of magic..... Let`s say, the Engineering guild?

More bright sparks, those nasty hellblasters are more reliable. You now need two misfires before you can destroy it. If you only throw one missfire, you just half the rest of the shots, but don`t lose the gun. With an engineer attached you can prevent that almost always. Cannon still do their job, just at an increased price, but Hellpitts are still not safe.
Now, as someone above mentioned, you should start making more use of detachments. That would help you to get to your minimum of core troops.

And you`d be a fool not to build a beefy unit of Demigryphs. They are deadly, hardy, add a speedy element to your army and above all very cool looking.

Now the last thing i`m adding is that i agree with your rant on some things. The Steam Tank is all but useless. Though the oponents of the empire might disagree, they could have made it a bit better. T6 and a 1+ armour save sounds nice, but it makes killing the thing quet easy. For what it does now i think that the 250 points it costs is rather pricey.
The swordsman are no longer dashing. Why take the I-4 away?
The hellstorm is nice, if you use the GW model. It seems your V-2 missile just became a cluster bomb.
Huntsman, special? no please.

Maybe this helps to put the new book into a new perspective. It seems such a waste to put your army away for a couple of years. (though i did it with my counts last book) New book, new army. Ponder it over once more.....

[Malcador]

Read the new book, loved it!

Your new models look very nice. Re-match soon?

[Daniel36]

You know what, I think the best thing to do is to play the new Empire book against new 8th ed. Army Books. I honestly believe that the problem doesn't so much lie with the Empire being nerfed as much as it lies with all pre-8th books being overpowered in 8th ed.

Of course, that doesn't take away the fact that it sucks now to play those pre-8th armies, but that is an issue that GW will probably never solve, and for which I hold much anger. The least they could do is create free army books that work better in 8th until the new books arrive, but hey, that's a discussion I don't want to rile up in your project log.

Go paint up that Great Cannon man!

[Tuttivillus]

But let me insert a little idea into your head. There is no wizard as crew on either, when fielding them as rare choices. Just a pair of acolytes. Acolytes who might be serving another organisation, instead of a college of magic..... Let`s say, the Engineering guild? .

Exactly, I've heard a rumour in the inn, that there was a Witch Hunter going to Stirland to check alleged information about Cult of the Machine and some technopriests there. He said that they managed to incorporate magic energy into their devices, like underground beastmen do, without permission of magic colleges. Oooohhh, I'm happy that I'm not a Stirlander, now more than ever. Pour me another one!!!

[GundamMecha]

Absolutely wonderful artillery! What did you scratch the wood sections from?

Looking fabulous at the moment, the sculpting on the skulls is very impressive.

[ArtificerArmour]

Very nice! Subscribed!

[Boreas_NL]

Yay! Feedback (and a lot of it, too)!

As if your terrain doesn't make me feel inadequate enough, you then go on to create master pieces like this.

honestly, my sincerest hats of to you boreas... you never fail to amaze me.

regards

My name is Daniel and I am a wargamer

Thanks! I aim to please...

Aaahhh.... nice, that engineer fits onto Your GREAT Cannon perfectly. I also like that WPriest from WAltar set.

Thanks! The moment I first saw the model I knew it would have to be used here. I only had to cut a bit of the wood to make it fit, but otherwise, it's a perfect match!

That engineer looks like he was made especially for your cannon Boreas! Shame the rumours about the giant siege cannon didn't pan out though. And the ones about Morr and Ulric priests and that female special character.

Bit of a shame about losing Dawn Armour and the Grey Wand. I never even got to try them out!

Thanks! Some rumours are (inevetably) proven false, but only the good ones... I can still use it as a regular Cannon.

Good to see you back working on Empire, Boreas. The new book sounds like a big disappointment (I will get my copy later this week), but it is good to see you continuing work on the army anyway. I will keep collecting, but I can't see how this book will reel in many new players, or persuade many old players to expand / update their army, which is a true shame.

That said, nice work! The engineer looks very natural on your big cannon, and the witchhunter conversion looks simple, but very effective and characterful.

Thanks! Read the book and make up your own mind. I admit I'm not happy, but I am not objective (so maybe not the best person to listen to).The book offers options for effective armies, I just don't like them... The new models are very nice (almost nice enough to make up for the lousy book)...

I can confirm that Empire haven't been defanged. I used mine against skaven last night and beat them.

Congratulations!

Boreas. You realy surpassed yourself in that rant. I have just spend the weekend reading the new book. And though it looks grimm at a first glance, i see some light at the end of the tunnel. The point increases are nasty, yes. But i get most of them. The old points for your arty were based on the fact that you still had to gues ranges, and in a time were there were partials. To all possibility you S-2 mortar is still deadlier then the S-3 one was in the version 7. The time for cheap laser guided arty is over. (now i need to stop before falling into a rant of my own)
I started about lights; the biggest light i`m seeing is the way you can boost your units of troops. Your big blocks of halbardiers and Greatswords were deadly in the last book. I know, i found out the hard way. The captains you were using now make you units cold blooded, instead of only keeping the warrior priests safe from challengers. The warrior priests themselves still give that nasty hatered to your units, but now on a reduced price. Add a witchhunter to protect against enemy characters. they are no chaos lords or vampires in killing potential. But have a good chance in them giving more trouble to your enemies then they are worth.
Then, there are the two wizard chariots. The fact they cast their bound spells is just a extra in my opinion. The area effects they have are much better. One gives a wardsave. That is nice for keeping your down to earth soldiers alife for slightly longer. The other one is much better. It gives you a +1 to hit. Put that one in between two big blocks of infantry, and watch sparks fly. I know there are wizards on top of it. But let me insert a little idea into your head. There is no wizard as crew on either, when fielding them as rare choices. Just a pair of acolytes. Acolytes who might be serving another organisation, instead of a college of magic..... Let`s say, the Engineering guild?

More bright sparks, those nasty hellblasters are more reliable. You now need two misfires before you can destroy it. If you only throw one missfire, you just half the rest of the shots, but don`t lose the gun. With an engineer attached you can prevent that almost always. Cannon still do their job, just at an increased price, but Hellpitts are still not safe.
Now, as someone above mentioned, you should start making more use of detachments. That would help you to get to your minimum of core troops.

And you`d be a fool not to build a beefy unit of Demigryphs. They are deadly, hardy, add a speedy element to your army and above all very cool looking.

Now the last thing i`m adding is that i agree with your rant on some things. The Steam Tank is all but useless. Though the oponents of the empire might disagree, they could have made it a bit better. T6 and a 1+ armour save sounds nice, but it makes killing the thing quet easy. For what it does now i think that the 250 points it costs is rather pricey.
The swordsman are no longer dashing. Why take the I-4 away?
The hellstorm is nice, if you use the GW model. It seems your V-2 missile just became a cluster bomb.
Huntsman, special? no please.

Maybe this helps to put the new book into a new perspective. It seems such a waste to put your army away for a couple of years. (though i did it with my counts last book) New book, new army. Ponder it over once more.....

Light at the end of the tunnel? That's just a freight train coming your way... Sure, there are things to like, but they are few... As I said, the book surely offers some options for making effective armies, I just don't like them... This will result in even more generic Empire lists as the new Wagons are almost mandatory (also true for the War Altar) and the other options choose themselves, this book just limit's the viable builds/options ... After reading through the new book another time, I finally found the reason the Flagellants were moved to the Special section: there was no space left to print them on the page with the other Rare choices and to add another page would have been madness (madness, I say!)...

Read the new book, loved it!

Your new models look very nice. Re-match soon?

Not likely... Building will do for now, as will Mordheim!

You know what, I think the best thing to do is to play the new Empire book against new 8th ed. Army Books. I honestly believe that the problem doesn't so much lie with the Empire being nerfed as much as it lies with all pre-8th books being overpowered in 8th ed.

Of course, that doesn't take away the fact that it sucks now to play those pre-8th armies, but that is an issue that GW will probably never solve, and for which I hold much anger. The least they could do is create free army books that work better in 8th until the new books arrive, but hey, that's a discussion I don't want to rile up in your project log.

Go paint up that Great Cannon man!

You might be right, but that's not a choice that I can make (you can hardly say no to a game because the other army still uses it's 7td edition book, right)... Why fix what wasn't broken in the first place... Just to be clear, I do agree the Mortar was too good for his points (but not broken), but to castrate it in this way? That said, I do like all the new additions to the book (that's what I wanted to see in a new book), but the changes to the existing units I find very hard to cope with...

Exactly, I've heard a rumour in the inn, that there was a Witch Hunter going to Stirland to check alleged information about Cult of the Machine and some technopriests there. He said that they managed to incorporate magic energy into their devices, like underground beastmen do, without permission of magic colleges. Oooohhh, I'm happy that I'm not a Stirlander, now more than ever. Pour me another one!!!

And make it a big one! The wagons are nice models, but won't make it into my army. I might be tempted to convert them (Stirland style: slap a steam boiler onto the sucker) but that will have to wait... I bought the new War Altar kit (mainly for bits as I still like my own conversion way better) and must say that it's quite detailed. It's certainly better than the old metal model, but it still lacks body/mass...

Absolutely wonderful artillery! What did you scratch the wood sections from?

Looking fabulous at the moment, the sculpting on the skulls is very impressive.

Thanks! Most of the wood was made with Plasticard, scored with a special tool... A few pages back I posted a pic of the process (along with a lot of wip shots of my Cannon)...

Very nice! Subscribed!

Thanks!

I also worked on a little side project: a new misfire table for the Mortar... I think the S2 Mortar warrants a new table, don't you agree?

Replace the bit in the BRB with the following:

When the machine misfires, roll on the following table.
1- Catastophic malfuntion: The crew is now permanently deaf (and subject to Stupidity for the remainder of the game) but may fire as normal next turn...
2-4 The machine is now stained with soot from the explosion and the crew must spend this turn polishing their barrel. Next turn roll a D6: on a roll of a 1, the crew isn't satisfied and will spend another turn polishing (their barrel)...
5-6 Nothing happens, as was to be expected... You lose D3 crew (they can't cope with the disapointed and decide to head back home or to the nearest tavern) but may fire as normal next turn...

I fully expect this to appear in the next FAQ update...

Thanks for watching! More updates coming soon! As always, your feedback is greatly appreciated, so please let me know what you think, and, if you're feeling adventurous, feel free to rate my thread...