Locked units and pile in moves

[Sgt Biffo]

If a unit has all the models within 2" of the enemy, is the unit still considered locked?

Does the enemy make a pile in move in this instance?

[Codsticker]

A) No they are not considered Locked.

B) I dunno... There are 4 references to Pile in moves in the rules; two of them state that models in units that ARE Locked make Pile In moves, one of them says WERE Locked and one of them isn't clear either way.

We play it that Pile In moves are made if the Combat is unresolved (ie. no one is massacered or runs away) regardless of whether either unit is Locked at the end of the assault phase. It would be just as legal to play it that, should there be no models in BtB at the end of the Assault phase, the two sides are free to make Consolidation moves. In this case it is likely that one unit would just Consolidate into the other anyway.

[mattjgilbert]

IIRC (BGB not with me right now) all models who are not engaged but who are locked MUST make a pile in move. The unit itself is locked in combat even if all its models are also engaged.

[Sanguinary]

We go through this about once a week.

Unit = Locked or not locked
Model = Engaged or not engaged

When the combat has been resolved all models not engaged, but part of the unit locked in combat, must make a pile-in move.

[Sgt Biffo]

We go through this about once a week.

Sorry to waste your time...

[Sanguinary]

Not your fault. Just pointing it out. It is a very brought up question.

[Skyth]

Every model not in btb in a locked unit must move to btb.

[ReDavide]

Every model not in btb in a locked unit must move to btb.

By the letter of the rules, every model not engaged must make a pile-in-move. So anyone within 2" of a friendly model in btb would sit still.

But everyone I know plays it Skyth's way, and I've never seen any reason to correct them.

[Skyth]

Well, by the letter of the rule, you have to move in also (See the picture and the combat summary...Both are rules also.)

[Sanguinary]

It makes a difference. And it says move unengaged models. It says nowhere to move everyone into BtB.

[Skyth]

Page 44, picture in the lower left clearly shows all models that are not in base to base moving to base to base.

Page 36, step 6 assault phase summary

'...any models not in base-to-base contact are moved 6" towards the enemy to continue the fight next turn.'

That's two places the rules say to move them BtB.

[Sanguinary]

Now read the caption below the picture on pg 44 "models in units that are locked, but which are not themselves ENGAGED in combat, must make a move up to 6" to contact the enemy"

engaged = within 2" of someone in btb

So engaged models stay where they are. Only unengaged models move.

[Sgt Biffo]

Thanx for the precise rulings.

I thought this was the case but I think my opponent was confusing the rule about breaking of and being cut down with being locked in. Just wanted to check out what others thought.

[Skyth]

Now read the caption below the picture on pg 44 "models in units that are locked, but which are not themselves ENGAGED in combat, must make a move up to 6" to contact the enemy"

engaged = within 2" of someone in btb

So engaged models stay where they are. Only unengaged models move.

Well, with the other supporting evidence, I'd say they used to wrong term for the caption. 2 things say btb, 1 says engaged. I'd say they meant btb when they said engaged.

[lord_blackfang]

Now read the caption below the picture on pg 44 "models in units that are locked, but which are not themselves ENGAGED in combat, must make a move up to 6" to contact the enemy"

engaged = within 2" of someone in btb

So engaged models stay where they are. Only unengaged models move.

Page 36: models not in base-to-base pile in
Page 44: models not engaged pile in

Note that if you follow the rule on page 36, you're still also following the rule from page 44, but not vice-versa. So if you pile in everybody not in base contact, you're obeying both rules. If you're only piling nonengaged models, you're disregarding the rule on page 36. Which is better? Think carefully now

[Sanguinary]

I look at it this way. Pg 36 is like a quick reference sheet for the order of what happens. The rest of the chapter is dedicated to explaining how the phase actually works. So if we flip to the section and read how pile-in moves work, we get the statement that I previously posted.


I would go by what it says in the specific section about Pile-in moves. the quick reference section on how to do assault is just that, "A Quick Reference", not a end all to how the rules actually work.

I do understand the ramifications to this. If you have a Powerfist that is engaged but not in btb according to your rules he can move and get into btb with whoever he wants. ie( a character) and kill them next round.

[lord_blackfang]

If you don't pile engaged models, you can end up with two units standing half an inch apart, technically in close combat but unable to attack eachother for the rest of the game.

[Sanguinary]

If you don't pile engaged models, you can end up with two units standing half an inch apart, technically in close combat but unable to attack eachother for the rest of the game.

Not correct. Engaged = Models in btb and models within 2" of a model in btb. Therefore if you are not touching an enemy model then no one is engaged, but the unit is still locked in combat. So you then move your unengaged models(which is everyone in your example) into btb with the enemy or if you can't move into btb then keep coherency and get as close as you can.

[lord_blackfang]

Oops, my mistake

Still, I think engaged models were meant to pile in. Pile in moves are similar to assault moves, which are intended to maximize the number of models in base contact.

[Skyth]

Well, the picture clearly shows engaged models moving to base to base as part of a pile-in.