which primarchs havn't we see in HH yet?

[Ravenstien]

The only Primarchs we've actually had any real characterisation from are Horus, Lorgar, Fulgrim, Jonson and Magnus.
Russ has popped up in a few places, but didn't get anywhere near as much coverage in Prospero Burns as I'd hoped.
Corax was a badass in First Heretic, despite pussying out and not finishing Lorgar off, but the descriptions were conflicting with that of Raven's Flight, like where was his power whip? I wonder if we'll get one about his post-Istvaan experience. That seems to be the key area for the Raven Guard.
Mortarion gets some coverage as well, but not nearly enough in Flight of the Eisenstein.
Dorn, Guilliman, Sanguinius, Vulkan, Ferrus, Kurze, Peturabo and Angron have all appeared, but only as cameos.
Khan's the only one that hasn't even appeared yet (correct me if I'm wrong).
The problem is that most of the latter group don't have a significant enough part in the Heresy, apart from the attack on Terra itself, except for those at the Istvaan massacre.
I think, and certainly hope, that we'll get more of Vulkan and Corax, as Nick Kyme's Salamander books have proved popular, so hopefully we'll see a HH Salamanders book. If they do publish a Raven Guard book, it'll probably be the events leading up to Istvaan, the Massacre, and then the fallout afterwards when he goes back to Deliverance.
Dorn will get fleshed out as they approach the battle for Terra - I imagine they'll start pumping those out after Age of Darkness, as will the rest of those involved in the battle, so that includes Sanguinius, Khan and the other traitor Legions.
I sincerely hope Aaron D-B does the Night Lords book, as they're hardly anything on their founding times - I think Kurze is one of the most interesting of the Primarchs.
I can't see how Guilliman will get any stage time, seeing as the Ultramarines were sitting on the bench for all of the heresy - maybe post-heresy when he has to split the Legions up?
Angron and Peturabo will probably get books of their own - all the traitors probably will get books detailing why they fell to chaos, though someone would have to do a good job characterising Angron...

I just want more from Graham McNeil and Aaron D-B - I've gone off Dan Abnett after Prospero Burns - that book was a major letdown in terms of background.

[Nazguire]

I expect that the inevitable duology of the Battle of Calth will feature Guilliman quite extensively. He had to deal with the repercussions of being the target of Lorgar's self-hating wrath, and his dedication to destroying the Word Bearers (it was the Ultramarines that pulverised Colchis.)

Khan should get a novel, or a couple of short stories, that characterises just who he is. At this point in time he is a bland 'Genghis Khan on a bike' knock off. Surely the culture of Chogoris plays as much to how his Legion operates, and Khan himself, as Fenris did for the Space Wolves (cough...sorry...Vylka Fnryka (sp?) )

Angron could be done in a couple of short stories as he and the World Eaters descend on several planets under the yoke of oppressive Imperial Governors. How would he react, how would he compare it to his slavery, etc, and how this ultimately drives him to Khorne. I hate the idea that he simply decided to start daemon-worshipping simply cause he liked chainsaws a bit too much.

Rogal Dorn is good as he is now, a central figure of which we can use to gauge the fear that Terra has of the Warmaster approaching it. He has his self doubt of whether he can fend off the Warmaster, about how close the Imperium really is into turning into these rebels in terms of ideals, morals, etc.

I prefer the idea that Kurze knew the Heresy was going to happen at some point, so prepared his Legion to act accordingly, without the Legion realising that. Kurze is perhaps one of the most intellectual (in a very cunning way) of the Primarchs, and this would be very in keeping with his character of deception, self-hatred and self-fulfilling prophecies.

[Londinium]

I'm dreading it. Historically ultras basically did nothing in the heresy... after the atrocity of fluff writing that was the 5th ed vanilla codex I dread to think what they will suddenly have accomplished now...

They were in Battle for the Abyss, if GW stick to established background that should be the extent of their involvement.

They did nothing? They held down and then defeated a big chunk of the 2nd largest legion in the Imperium. That's hardly nothing. They also were integral in forcing Horus' hand during the Siege of Terra when they were due to arrive along with the Dark Angels and Space Wolves.

Besides the Heresy is not the Ultramarine's time to shine, it's the period immediately after (the Harrowing/Scouring/call it what you will) when they become most prominent. More than likely we'll probably get this time tagged onto the Horus Heresy series aswell, right up until when Abaddon leads the first Black Crusade. So we'll be seeing plenty of the big blue smurfs in the coming years.

Besides Guilliman really needs a good character study, the dude was essentially the second Emperor and built much of the Imperium as we see it today. Which has lasted some 10,000 years despite all it's faults.

[GavT]

Corax was a badass in First Heretic, despite pussying out and not finishing Lorgar off, but the descriptions were conflicting with that of Raven's Flight, like where was his power whip? I wonder if we'll get one about his post-Istvaan experience. That seems to be the key area for the Raven Guard.

Corax's favoured weapons, his claws and flight pack, are damaged in the fight with Lorgar and Curze, and when his Thunderhawk is shot down, hence his later use of heavy bolter and the whip. As for what happens next...

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-prod...ance-lost.html

(Okay, no info there really, but I haven't started writing it yet!)

As for other Primarch appearances, there will be plenty in the upcoming novels, and the Age of Darkness anthology.

Cheers,

Gav

[Urza]

They did nothing? They held down and then defeated a big chunk of the 2nd largest legion in the Imperium. That's hardly nothing.

The Battle of Calth should be an awesome book, and one of the areas of the Heresy that I don't know a huge amount about. It would be cool to have it released as a duology a la Thousand Sons/Prospero Burns, with Aaron Dembski-Bowden writing the Word Bearers, and Graham McNeill writing the Ultramarines.

They also were integral in forcing Horus' hand during the Siege of Terra when they were due to arrive along with the Dark Angels and Space Wolves.

A story about three legions en-route to Terra being a time-sensitive threat to Horus' invasion does not sound like an especially interesting story to me!

The dude was essentially the second Emperor and built much of the Imperium as we see it today. Which has lasted some 10,000 years despite all it's faults.

I wouldn't go that far. Yes, he was certainly responsible for the Codex Astartes, and the complete restructuring of the loyal Legions into Chapters. However the Council of Terra, the formation of the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition had far more to do with the shape of the Imperium as we see it in the 41st Millenium.

[Londinium]

I wouldn't go that far. Yes, he was certainly responsible for the Codex Astartes, and the complete restructuring of the loyal Legions into Chapters. However the Council of Terra, the formation of the Ecclesiarchy and the Inquisition had far more to do with the shape of the Imperium as we see it in the 41st Millenium.

Aside from the Ecclesiarchy most of what you mentioned was influenced by Guilliman. He didn't just reform the Astartes but also the Imperial Army and Navy. He created the Imperial Guard from the Army. I have no doubt he had a strong influence in creating what are now the High Lords from the proto-administration that had begun to develop under the Emperor.

He was sat on Terra with the largest legion in the galaxy at his control and a good deal of support from other legions before the Codex controversy. To suggest any of the restructing of the Imperium happened without his influence is shaky at the best. The only thing I can think of that would have escaped his influence is the Ecclesiarchy as that emerges in a later period and I doubt Guilliman would have had much time for people worshipping the Emperor.

[Dragannia]

Well, Angron was characterised in Tales of Heresy. Mortarion has a decent role. The only ones that have been ignored, or mentioned in the briefest of passings, are Khan, Corax, Vulkan and Perturabo. The next ones, who have roles to play but are secondary to the main Speeece Marine characters are Mortarion, Angron, IIRC Jonson (Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels weren't my favourite novels), Guilliman, Sanguinius, Ferrus Magnus and even Alpharius Omegon played secondary to the main characters. The properly characterised ones, either in short stories or as novels, are Dorn, since he's been in quite a few novels and you do see some development, Curze, Horus, Magnus, Russ (I haven't read Prospero Burns yet, but I assume so), Lorgar and Fulgrim.

[Xisor]

Londinium: I broadly concur. Though, perhaps its due to being a Salamanders player, I have a sneaking suspicion that the pieces which Guilliman doesn't deal with are probably handled by Vulkan. E.g.: proto-Inquisitors, proto-Grey Knights and proto-Ecclessiarchy. He seems to have that vibe, especially given his secrecy and the superstition he afforded his Astartes. Not to mentioned the rather marvellous two pictures of Salamanders looking quite 'beatific' in Horus Heresy: Collected visions.

I broadly agree with Dragannia that Dorn is a central character in the whole Horus Heresy. In many ways I think it's almost 'his story'. He starts off upstanding and awesome, then every story we get is Crap Thing happening to him, around him or beyond his control. By the end of the Heresy we know he's to be sufficiently broken to fall hook, line and sinker for the Iron Cage, afterall.

One thing I'd forewarn of is, Dragannia, that Prospero Burns doesn't focus on Russ. In that regard he's very much a secondary character (though fortunately not due to a Space Marine protaganist, it's done rather well from almost entirely a human's perspective). I'd count Horus as a similar primarch too, a secondary character for the most part. But that's just quibbling.

News

Nick Kyme's writing Vulkan's story as a Horus Heresy novella, or something along those lines. I'll say off the bat: colour me excited.

[Londinium]

Bumping this thread a little but the 'Horus false regret/repentence' thread in the background forum just got me thinking. The whole central theme of the Heresy is a mirror of the War in Heaven of Christian mythology. Father's favourite son rises up to challenge him and is then cast down, while the other Angels fight amongst themselves.

Now we're a good number of years into this book series and yet we've never seen Horus and the Big E share a proper interaction together. We know little about their relationship and as a result there is less emotional impact in Horus turning traitor. This is why I've been thinking that the BL should embark on a new trilogy in the vein of HR/FG/GIF but detailing the Emperor's finding of Horus and their early adventures and then up to Ullanor.

If you had decent authors working on it, it'd give the Emperor-Horus relationship so much more depth and as a result the whole series would benefit immensely. Especially the final trilogy on Terra. It'd be great to see the actual father/son relationship and see how the other Primarches react to how close Horus and the Emperor are. Especially the #2 found Primarch who might well find it rather disconcerting. Also it'd be nice to see more of the good Horus, who essentially has one and a half books before he descends into moustache twiddling.

I don't know if the BL would ever do it because they've been very obvious about trying to avoid any in depth characterisation of the Big E, the Last Church aside. Probably because any characterisation of him would never live up to the fanboi's expectations. Too brilliant and awesome and people will cry 'Mary Sue!', not brilliant and awesome enough and people will pick faults all over the place, like they currently do with his admittedly rather limited exposure.

Either way the idea of a Horus-Big E trilogy set during the early years of the Crusade through to meshing with the timelines of TFH and ATS (Ullanor) would be awesome and benefit the series hugely imo.

[Wyrmwood]

Bumping this thread a little but the 'Horus false regret/repentence' thread in the background forum just got me thinking. The whole central theme of the Heresy is a mirror of the War in Heaven of Christian mythology. Father's favourite son rises up to challenge him and is then cast down, while the other Angels fight amongst themselves.

Now we're a good number of years into this book series and yet we've never seen Horus and the Big E share a proper interaction together. We know little about their relationship and as a result there is less emotional impact in Horus turning traitor. This is why I've been thinking that the BL should embark on a new trilogy in the vein of HR/FG/GIF but detailing the Emperor's finding of Horus and their early adventures and then up to Ullanor.

If you had decent authors working on it, it'd give the Emperor-Horus relationship so much more depth and as a result the whole series would benefit immensely. Especially the final trilogy on Terra. It'd be great to see the actual father/son relationship and see how the other Primarches react to how close Horus and the Emperor are. Especially the #2 found Primarch who might well find it rather disconcerting. Also it'd be nice to see more of the good Horus, who essentially has one and a half books before he descends into moustache twiddling.

I don't know if the BL would ever do it because they've been very obvious about trying to avoid any in depth characterisation of the Big E, the Last Church aside. Probably because any characterisation of him would never live up to the fanboi's expectations. Too brilliant and awesome and people will cry 'Mary Sue!', not brilliant and awesome enough and people will pick faults all over the place, like they currently do with his admittedly rather limited exposure.

Either way the idea of a Horus-Big E trilogy set during the early years of the Crusade through to meshing with the timelines of TFH and ATS (Ullanor) would be awesome and benefit the series hugely imo.

I agree wholeheartedly with this, a simple post of support.

[Alpharius_]

Bumping this thread a little but the 'Horus false regret/repentence' thread in the background forum just got me thinking. The whole central theme of the Heresy is a mirror of the War in Heaven of Christian mythology. Father's favourite son rises up to challenge him and is then cast down, while the other Angels fight amongst themselves.

Now we're a good number of years into this book series and yet we've never seen Horus and the Big E share a proper interaction together. We know little about their relationship and as a result there is less emotional impact in Horus turning traitor. This is why I've been thinking that the BL should embark on a new trilogy in the vein of HR/FG/GIF but detailing the Emperor's finding of Horus and their early adventures and then up to Ullanor.

If you had decent authors working on it, it'd give the Emperor-Horus relationship so much more depth and as a result the whole series would benefit immensely. Especially the final trilogy on Terra. It'd be great to see the actual father/son relationship and see how the other Primarches react to how close Horus and the Emperor are. Especially the #2 found Primarch who might well find it rather disconcerting. Also it'd be nice to see more of the good Horus, who essentially has one and a half books before he descends into moustache twiddling.

I don't know if the BL would ever do it because they've been very obvious about trying to avoid any in depth characterisation of the Big E, the Last Church aside. Probably because any characterisation of him would never live up to the fanboi's expectations. Too brilliant and awesome and people will cry 'Mary Sue!', not brilliant and awesome enough and people will pick faults all over the place, like they currently do with his admittedly rather limited exposure.

Either way the idea of a Horus-Big E trilogy set during the early years of the Crusade through to meshing with the timelines of TFH and ATS (Ullanor) would be awesome and benefit the series hugely imo.

Agree with this, and as a side note agree with the Night Lords needing to be done by ADB, HH series needs moar Curze.