9 years of Warhammer, ruined by a single game of Warmachine.

[ChrisIronBrow]

Hi everyone, Long story short I've been a GW-warhammer fanatic for 9 years since picking the game up at the start of 6th edition. I've even worked for GW Retail. I've grown increasingly upset with their policy of ignoring the rules, and belittling their players for trying to play competitively. Warhammer's 8th edition was finally the straw that broke my back. I've had great times, but I can't anymore put up with such terrible imbalances that can cause a player to be ostracized due to their army building choices.

What does that have to due with Warmachine? Well, I was complaining about Warhammer, and how after 9 years I was seriously considering just quitting it altogether to my friend who happens to work at a Game shop. He offered to show me a warmachine intro.

I was hooked. So then I picked up the rulebook and little did I know what awaited me after page 4.

Page 5. Sure, it's a joke. I get it. What was so revelatory for me was the "mission statement" of sorts. The "manifesto" of why Warmachine players play. I got it. It described me. I don't want to feel bad for playing my hardest, I don't want to crush other players because they were trying to play "nice". I want to go all out, and have my opponent do the same, so that when the games over we both feel a sense of pride in the game we just played, win, lose, or draw. I want to shake hands at the end of the game and genuinely say "good game."

So, here I am leaving the past and eagerly looking into the future.



I've sold a traded off a few Games Workshop armies and stuff, and now I'm starting Trollbloods.

I've got:
Grim
pMAdrak
eHorluk
Axer
2x impaler
DT Bomber
Max Pyg burrowers
MAx fennblades
scouts
Min scattergunners


The game is just a smoother, better game than anything I've played so far.

So, for those on the fence, try it.

And if anyone is looking for a begginers advice coming from the GW hobby feel free to post here or send me a PM. I've already discovered some radical mindset changes that you don't pick up on right away.

[40k The movie!]

Welcome! I've been playing for roughly 9 months, and although I enjoyed both Warhammers when I last played them (a long time ago), I never enjoyed them as much as I do WarmaHordes now - and I'm certain I wouldn't enjoy the "bucket of dice" mechanics now that I've experienced 2d6 individual activations!

I have no advice for you list-wise, except maybe go slow and don't play complete different lists every game - it's important to gets feel for the rules and what works for you, and I've found the best way to do this is to swap out stuff gradually.

Good luck, you're going to have a blast! Play like you've got a pair!

[wazatdingder]

Good of you to join us! I never thought all those years of collecting GW would have paid off, but I have used it to fund a game that is far more enjoyable.

[uona]

Page 5 ftw!

[gaarew]

and I'm certain I wouldn't enjoy the "bucket of dice" mechanics now that I've experienced 2d6 individual activations!

You're doing it wrong.

You really want those 3/4/5D6 activations.

[Deadnight]

biggest switchover to PP games is *unlearning* the GW mindset. but its a different game, and requires different thinking.

welcome to the Iron Kingdoms mate.

[bebe]

I switched over in August last year after over twenty years of G?W gaming. I have sold off all my GW armies which in itself was no small enterprise. I traded some fro a Ret and another for a Troll army but have finally settled down and decided that gators are my thing. It's a new faction so I can grow with it. Truthfully I have only just begun winning a few games here and there and am constantly being corrected for incorrect interpretations of the rules. I'm getting better though as I see more game play and face more casters.

What I like about PP is the transition from one new rules release to the next and that new models do not make your older models obsolete. Both the Ret and Troll army I picked up were MK1 designed but work just fine in MK11 and seamlessly incorporate new releases. That's a huge revelation for an old GW player. I also really appreciate the quality of some of the sculpts although a few are tricky to assemble.

It's nice to know I can play like a man, my faction will be around a long time, i can add all the new releases to it without losing its integrity and that the NQ magazine is way better that WD. I love their publications - looking forward to Dominion and a brand new Gator caster. Thr Minions book was very well written too but actually you can play from the cards only and the rulebook. Nice.

Do I sound like the guy who just quit smoking and can't stand the odor of tobacco?

[Kaptajn_Congoboy]

Great to see new folks enjoy WM/H. It sure brought me back to the miniatures wargaming fold.

PP has done great work with Mk2, and it still seems to be paying off for them; we get new players every month over here. I do think, however, that the best way to present the game is to extol its virtues not over other games, but simply by presenting the way the game is played. Demonstration games and just telling people how much fun it is (with examples if they ask) present a much friendlier face than wailing on GW (or other systems). People tend to take offense if systems they like are denegrated, understandably enough.

Friendly, pleasant presentation of a great gaming system that provides heaps of fun both for the tournament gamer and the casual player, that's the way to go. I save my rants for...other fora than Warseer

[Deadnight]

absolutely. while i regard PP games as better than GW games, and whilst i will make that point to people who i give demos to, i also point out that i have a lot of time for GW. they make excellent models, and the hobby is only what it is because of them. And i still enjoy the odd game of 40k. its a fun, easy, beer and pretzels game.

But as you say, its always better to praise Warmahordes on the strength of its rules/models/style/fun than just ripping on other companies. thats just a bit conceited, if you ask me.

Another thing to praise them on is how they upgraded and balanced extremely well all the warmachine and hordes factions (11 in total, plus 2 rulebooks) to mk2 in the space of a year.

[uona]

Great to see new folks enjoy WM/H. It sure brought me back to the miniatures wargaming fold.

PP has done great work with Mk2, and it still seems to be paying off for them; we get new players every month over here. I do think, however, that the best way to present the game is to extol its virtues not over other games, but simply by presenting the way the game is played. Demonstration games and just telling people how much fun it is (with examples if they ask) present a much friendlier face than wailing on GW (or other systems). People tend to take offense if systems they like are denegrated, understandably enough.

Friendly, pleasant presentation of a great gaming system that provides heaps of fun both for the tournament gamer and the casual player, that's the way to go. I save my rants for...other fora than Warseer

Agree with this. When it started Warmahordes had to carve its playerbase out of the rotting hide of gw so you had the original page 5 and all that but now its at the next level already where its popular enough that it doesnt need to appear as anti-gw as before.

[Aladin_sane]

You're doing it wrong.

You really want those 3/4/5D6 activations.

This made me laugh

I totally agree with your last point Deadnight. The quick and social transition to MKII was fantastic, even if it did have it's problems and critics.

Long live PP!

[Hrafn]

absolutely. ...

Right on. Excellent post

For me, the point is that Warmachine/Hordes appeal more to me now than what GW offers. I don't harbour any ill feelings towards GW for this, as I never had any emotional attachment to the game. PP offers a better product for me, and that's it.

Warmachine/Hordes sport a a brilliant system, well-executed game design and balance, excellent written material, inspired setting and good minis. That is all you need to know. There is no need to slag off GW to intice people into playing this game. It's good enough on its own merits alone. Everybody and the game is better served with leaving the "Disappointed Fanboy Turns Rabid Anti-Fanboy Syndrome" at home.I do not, I repeat, I do not level accusations of said syndrome on anyone in this thread, and certainly not the OP. I say it because some threads (and not primarily on this Forum) tend to degenerate into an innane GW hate-fest.

[TheSanityAssassin]

Hehe, I feel so much the same. I even worked for Games Workshop Canada for a while, and for the last year or so have been steadily selling my GW products to get more PP. Now up to 4 armies.....Retribution, Menoth, Cygnar and Trollbloods.

[Misfire]

I stopped play GW games about 8 years ago now, then I moved to a new city and decided to get my armies out so I could join the local games club and make some friends.
As I was sitting there putting the finishing touches on my Tau, I realised that I just couldn't face another throw down with a Bloodthirster, watching it rampage through my army.
Then, as I was mooching around the game store, I got to looking at the Prime MKII book, bought it there and then and haven't looked back.
I'm now slinging my GW stuff on the net, I've picked up several of the Forces books and am having the agonizing decision of Cygnar, Retribution or Trollbloods. Oh, how will I decide.

[Deadnight]

I stopped play GW games about 8 years ago now, then I moved to a new city and decided to get my armies out so I could join the local games club and make some friends.
.

been there, doing that. personally, i find running with several games is the best way. 40k is the beer and pretzels game that everyone plays. More bodies, more games, more friends. Warmahordes is more niche, but it is ever expanding. more and more people are playing it, or hearing about it and wanting to play it. personally, i find plugging the game by running demos generates a hell of a lot of interest, and quite a few new players. then there are other games. Im trying to get people into Infility right now, and then there is malifaux, flames of war, void (i think thats it) and plenty more.

As I was sitting there putting the finishing touches on my Tau, I realised that I just couldn't face another throw down with a Bloodthirster, watching it rampage through my army.
.

that bloodthirster does actually exist in warmachine. he is called epic Butcher, and his kill count is typically rather disgusting.

that said, you are mainly right. i remember CSM Nike Lord (d.speed, infiltrate, d.visage, LCs, spiky bitz). what did it for me more than that was the fact that every army looked the same. i played 4th ed solidly, and just suffered 40k burnout at the end. every damn chaos army looked the same, and played the same, every tau army was built around hammerheads and devilfish, and the other codices were the same. games were no longer fun. i did get sick of it. Now though, having walked away from it, i can appreciate 40k more, as i see it as "my bit on the side" that i can appreciate, and not take too seriously.

Then, as I was mooching around the game store, I got to looking at the Prime MKII book, bought it there and then and haven't looked back.
.

most of us are the same. I have found by running my demos that quite a few of my mates wanted Warmahordes as their "other" game- a bit more of a quick, brutal, skirmish game. i do the demos, draw them in. they build their little 25pt armies. they get sucked in more. they evolve from "run at me" demos, and the intro games i tend to run are a wee bit more streamlined from the QSRs. I go easy, drag out the games, let them get a feel for it. Most go for the bait, and get stuck in, and come back for seconds. tactics evolve as they ease up on "run at me", and focus on tricks, synnergies, combos etc. and slowly they sink seeper into the warmahordes game.
And then, at a particular point, most people get an epiphany. all of a sudden, they just *get* warmachine. they just get what it means, what its like, and how its played. And i find, once you've had that moment, you can't go back. Warmahordes takes priority.

I]]
I'm now slinging my GW stuff on the net, I've picked up several of the Forces books and am having the agonizing decision of Cygnar, Retribution or Trollbloods. Oh, how will I decide.

buy them all. mwahahaha!

[drear]

you say you were fed up with gw ignoring the rules or belittling competetive play, but have you tried simply changing your gaming circle?

i know in my local gw and gaming club, competetivness in list building is frowned upon, simply because we all are having a fun game and not a tourniment. however whenever groups are entered into tourniments, they are focused on a competetive list, with help from other gamers.

as for ignoring rules, what sort of rules? from my experiance with playing in gw stores rules are adhered to rather strictly, unless its an obvious bone of contention in the interpritation then its a roll off.

i think its loverly you enjoy warmachine but do not villify another system of wargaming when refering to your new hobby.
you are never forced to play at a store, or even with the people you choose to, the game is not well reflected in some of its players.

you will proberly find the same competetive frowning and rules ignorance in warmachine/hordes as ou will in any other gaming system, you just havnt been around long enough to see it yet.

[ChrisIronBrow]

i think its loverly you enjoy warmachine but do not villify another system of wargaming when refering to your new hobby.
you are never forced to play at a store, or even with the people you choose to, the game is not well reflected in some of its players.

Honestly, the issue isn't the players. It's the companies outlook on their game. I got fed up with GW ignoring it's own rules while releasing FAQ's that contradict themselves and clearly spelled out rules. I got tired of the lack of interest in GW playtesting. I got sick of hearing over and over from GW that If I was playing "competitively" I was playing it wrong.

So, I finally started listening, GW wasn't making a game for me, so I stopped giving them my money.

PP cares about balance, and tournaments, and clear rules and competitive play.

I don't need to "run down" GW they do it themselves every time they give a "we don't really know but ask your opponent" answer to an faq.

This thread was about how great I find the WM-H game, with a little tweak at GW. Anyone who feels the need to defend GW, don't bother. I don't care what they do anymore, they lost me by not listening, it's too late to change that.


Back to WM:

I'm loving that I can grab most any unit, and it's effective on the table. Sure there are playstyle differences, but overall I haven't yet found a "worthless" unit. I love this since I'm so used to having to pick carefully if I want a reasonable unit in Warhammer.

[Aladin_sane]

Karax spring to mind on the uselessness

[uona]

Back to WM:

I'm loving that I can grab most any unit, and it's effective on the table. Sure there are playstyle differences, but overall I haven't yet found a "worthless" unit. I love this since I'm so used to having to pick carefully if I want a reasonable unit in Warhammer.

I love WM as much as anyone here but I think you need to play more I think a good case can be made that gw has better internal army balance than PP.

[dreamwarder]

Hi everyone, Long story short I've been a GW-warhammer fanatic for 9 years since picking the game up at the start of 6th edition. I've even worked for GW Retail. I've grown increasingly upset with their policy of ignoring the rules, and belittling their players for trying to play competitively. Warhammer's 8th edition was finally the straw that broke my back. I've had great times, but I can't anymore put up with such terrible imbalances that can cause a player to be ostracized due to their army building choices.

What does that have to due with Warmachine? Well, I was complaining about Warhammer, and how after 9 years I was seriously considering just quitting it altogether to my friend who happens to work at a Game shop. He offered to show me a warmachine intro.

I was hooked. So then I picked up the rulebook and little did I know what awaited me after page 4.

Page 5. Sure, it's a joke. I get it. What was so revelatory for me was the "mission statement" of sorts. The "manifesto" of why Warmachine players play. I got it. It described me. I don't want to feel bad for playing my hardest, I don't want to crush other players because they were trying to play "nice". I want to go all out, and have my opponent do the same, so that when the games over we both feel a sense of pride in the game we just played, win, lose, or draw. I want to shake hands at the end of the game and genuinely say "good game."

So, here I am leaving the past and eagerly looking into the future.
.

Glad you've found something that fits the sort of game you like to play - I can see why you must have grown disillusioned with Warhammer.

For my own part, your reasons for leaving Warhammer behind are my reasons for sticking with it, and your reasons for taking up Warmachine are my exact reasons for being turned off by it.

I just hope you don't see your move from Warhammer to Warmachine as a 'graduation', and recognise that it takes all sorts - that some people like one sort of game, while others like something different.