What is a good modern/sci-fi tank game?

[Justicar_Freezer]

Just like the title says I'm looking to find a good tabletop tank battle game.

I've got a few guidelines that will affect my decision though.

1.) I'd like it to be 25/28mm or smaller in scale. Either a skirmish level game at the 25/28mm scale or a larger engagement at 15mm or 10mm

2.) The rules should be fun and engaging preferably the "I move a unit, my opponent moves a unit" type not the I go You go system of GW games.

3.) and this is probably the most important of them I'd like to find a game which the rules and minis that can be used for it are easy enough to come across in the U.S.

So with those three things in mind is there anything like this out there or am I barking up a tree with nothing at the top?

oh and a 4th thing which isn't too important but is a personal preference of mine. I'd like the rules to be aviable in a hardbook rulebook. I just personally dislike PDF rulebooks.

Thanks for any input guys and gals of warseer.

[Nat B]

Have you considered Epic:Armageddon? It is 6mm but has big stuff so fits your 10-15mm point 1. It has alternating activations, point 2. The rules and minis are easy to get hold of and it has ongoing community developement of both rules and minis, point 3. You can buy the bound rulebook still, or you can use the (updated) pdfs and get it bound at a print-on-demand place, point 4.

Additionally, Im guessing that you know of the 40k universe as you are posting the question on warseer.

Try http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/index.php (in the epic armageddon forum) for details of current developments.

Off the top of my head I can think of the following 'Armoured' armies (as you asked about a tank game) IG mech infantry, IG armoured regiment, traitor armoured regiment, krieg, skittari admech, space marine armoured company, space marine siegebreaker company, mech eldar, and many other non-mech armies can be made tank heavy.

Additionally, It is imo the best game GW have ever made, it has simple rules, but astonishing tactical depth. It is probably the most underappreciated game around, it really is that good.

[Pacorko]

I will recommend Dirt Side by GZG (Ground Zero Games), designed with their figures in mind, but you can easily use CinC's Renegade Legion tanks and have a blast with it, as it is a game system thought for 6mm miniatures--which you can easily adapt to 10mm.

CinC is in the U.S. of A. and within easy reach here. Then, there's GZG's full line of games that's available for free at their website.

Hope this helps!

[tezdal]

Dirtside is an excellent tank game, never tried it with anything larger then 6mm though

[Havock]

Battletech without the mechs but using mainly tanks/infantry/BA?

[Justicar_Freezer]

Thanks for the replies so far guys. I guess I should have mentioned I wanted something not involved with 40k because my general interest in the warhammer verses is dieing off lately. As to 6mm that could work as well wasn't sure just how small things like epic are. I'll have to check out dirtside.

Also has anyone ever heard of a game called MicroArmor? At least I think that's what it was called. I'm definately interested in finding something even if it is a game without much background or fluff where my buddies and I could make up our own.

[Pacorko]

Micro Armor is the trademark of GHQ's minis (1/286th scale... 6mmm), and I think they publish a game under that name. It's been a while since I visited their corner of the intarwebz.

As a matter of "doubt disperssion", I can tell you that an Abraham MBT's chassis--by GHQ--is about an inch long. Add the nozzle and it goes to 3cm long. So, yes, they are pretty small... which means games can be pretty big in scope even if you guys use a regular kitchen table.

Dirts Side has some background, but you can make all the stuff you want and use Dark Realm Miniatures, CinC's Renegade Legion, GZG, heck! even a few BTech's mechs, and then mix and match to your hearts' content and have a pretty good science fiction gaming experience.

That said, Dirt Side can be easily adapted for modern and near-future scraps... and I guess that with enough research and a week or two writing specific rules and ranges, you can even use it for WWII*!

*I may even go as loco as to try and do precisely that! After I return from my break at Puerto Vallarta's sunny beaches, that is.

[Justicar_Freezer]

ok guys so I dled dirtside gonna give that a look over. On the off chance of sounding a bit befuddled by the scale I have a question.

I know Warhammer, and games like it such as Spinespur and Infinty and the now defunct Urban War, were all the 25/28mm scale.

Now my question is just how big is 15mm is it Flames of war scale or smaller then that?

and is 6-10mm scale the size of say epic, and warmaster?

I ask because I think generally I'd like 15mm as a scale if that is what flames of war is. Again sorry for the somewhat silly question. Just never really broke into the smaller scale of gaming before.

[AndrewGPaul]

Flames of War is 15mm. Epic is (sort of) 6mm, although the infantry are probably oversized. Warmaster is 10mm (although again, possibly oversized).

[AFnord]

Battletech without the mechs but using mainly tanks/infantry/BA?

Is that not like ordering a hamburger with bread, and not eating the hamburger?

Don't get me wrong though, BT is a great system, and if you can live with the fact that there are mechs in the game (not the gundam style super agile mechs (based on what others have told me about gundam, I have not actually seen the show), but more tank like mechs, big, slow & not very agile), then you will find a lot of enjoyment there.

[Darwin_green]

well, there's always NoLimits. It plays off the old VoR system and has a pretty in depth army creation system.(basically you can make your army from the ground up). It's mostly in 28mm, but I think it can be scaled back to 15mm if that works for you.
http://wargamesunlimited.net/nolimits/index.html

Fast and Dirty is designed for 15mm as well I think. offers a lot of flexibility, but i haven't had the chance to play it yet. From what I hear, it's an alternative to Stargrunt, with an optional point system for pickup games.
http://www.freewebs.com/weaselfierce/

Then, there's the pereinnial favorite, Stargrunt from Ground Zero games. 15mm.
http://www.groundzerogames.net/index...id=98&Itemid=1

[Justicar_Freezer]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to look over the rules for dirtside, and no limits though I'm starting to think it maybe time to take matters into my own hands and simply write up my own rules set for game based totally on groups of tanks batteling it out amongst themselves. It'll go nicely right next to the zombie game I made.

If I were to decide to do 15mm scale with tanks from say flames of war, heavy gear, battletech, and even some toys or old Micro Machines what would be the best unit of measurment to use. My default choice would be inches but perhaps millimeters would be better suited?

Your thoughts are appreciated.

[Raellos]

Centimetres would work well in anything smaller than 28mm. May I recommend something around 20mm? Although you want tank battles, so single based infantry might be a negative rather than a boon, it is just big enough for individually based infantry, but still increases the area of the battlefield marvellously. Also, if you have a scale around there you will be able to have a good amount of detailed damage modelling in the rules. If you find a well supported scale modelling scale you should be able to game on the cheap. I don't know what rulesets there are out there but Lead Adventure Forum might be a good place to look.

[Darwin_green]

well, for mini's:

Critical mass games
Khurasian miniatures
Old Crow
Rebel minis- tons of zombies too
Ground zero games- tons of stuff
DLD productions- does nice resin vehicles
Eureka miniatures- has some cool "Jinroh:the wolf brigade" looking dudes.

I think battle tech is actually 6-10mm. but the battle suits like the elementals might work well as 15mm power armor.

[Justicar_Freezer]

Thanks guys and yes centimeters is what I meant not millimeters. I'll have a look at the sites you mentioned Darwin_Green see what they have to offer.

If I end up working on my own rules I don't think infantry will play much of a part in the game. The role will be replaced by lighter builds of tanks. The closest to infantry I might get would be some kinds of powered battle suits that have the ability to go head to head with a tank.

At the moment I think 15mm might be the easiest scale to work in though I'll look into 20mm as well. Also nice with 15mm is I have a hobby train shop around me which I can get terrian and maybe even some tank minis from. I just want minis that will be easy to get ahold of and that can be spliced with other minis/upgrade kits so my buddies and I can make our tanks look the way we want them to look.

So once again thanks for the replies guys and gals.

[Raellos]

Obviously each to their own, but having played quite a bit of the Close Combat games, damage modelling would be the reason I'd play a tank game, so I'd definitely go 20mm. I'm considering a rules rewrite for a 40k tank mini-apoc game. I reckon it'd be pretty good fun.

[Darwin_green]

oh yeah, I forgot about Gear krieg. It's a weird WW2 game that features walking tanks.
http://store.dp9.com/index.php?cPath=38_44

they also made a few modern version of their gear krieg walkers.
http://store.dp9.com/index.php?cPath=59

[Justicar_Freezer]

thanks again guys and Darwin Green thanks for all the info on models. I like Dream Pod 9s stuff just wish it wasn't quite as pricey.

Raellos: Not real sure what you mean by damage modelling? If you mean modelling damage on your tanks then I can understand that. If you mean modelling damage ingame I've got some ideas for how to work on that.

Hmm another bit of a scale question but I was curious if any of you could do maybe a bit of a lineup type pic for me with a say epic sized tank/superheavy, next to a 15mm tank, next to a 20mm tank, next to a GW tank just so I have an idea of the difference.

[Darwin_green]

basically, at that scale, you could still have rules for specific damage for a vehicle.
like, track blown, or fuel leakage and so-on.

[TanithScout]

I'm currently using Future War Commander rules for my sci-fi games in 15mm(though its fit for any scale), and though it isn't tank specific-you definitely have the option in there.

In general, for 15mm sci-fi miniatures I definitely rec.
Khurasan: http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/adventure.html
Blue Moon: http://www.bluemoonmanufacturing.com....php?cat_id=42

blue moon has a solid retro vibe, but their 15's are pretty beefy, and their tanks are rather large