8th Edition Orc & Goblin Armybook Tactics

[Malorian]

wolves are really only three points cheaper if you are running naked and even then spiders come with spears. If you are thinking about taking wolves as a medium cav combat block you are probably paying 12pts per to take shield and spear. Spiders are 13 per with shield and spear standard but have no option for light armor.

No matter what the wolves are cheaper, and typically you don't need any upgrades to use them for what you want.

The more upgrades you take the more sense it is to go with naked boar boyz instead.

[Kauzu]

agreed as the most efficient use for them is warmachine hunting/general being annoying in small blocks. I was pointing out that if you wanted to do something a little different with them and not necessarily be efficient (say if you had 20 of the old oglah khan hobgoblin riders and the khan himself laying around) they quickly lose a good chunk of the point value difference.

[Gork or Possibly Mork]

They don't auto-fail. When you make any characteristic test you need to roll equal to or less then the value. BRB p10

Doh! That's what i get for listening to folk on here and not actually checking or knowing the rule for myself

[whitespyre]

I would go with Savage Big'un for Deathstar. Trolls just scare me to much.

Are you talking 40 sob'uns, 10wide?

[AMWOOD co]

Back to the magic thing, I'd like to look at Curse of da Bad Moon. For greenskin players who moaned about us not getting Purple Sun, here's the green side of it. It doesn't move as far on the first go (4 - 24 while PSoX is 6-30), but it moves better afterwords (3-18 vs 2-10), won't dispel itself if you don't want it to, and isn't only initiative tests. In fact, 2/3 of the time it will kill half the elves it moves over (yay!). The big version lets you choose the test and uses the big template. This makes it better at killing Chaos Warriors than the Purple Sun is. Casting Itchy Nuisance first is also a death knell waiting to happen.

How has this little gem done for people? Also, has anyone tried to have Azhag and a few goblin mages running BOTH vortexes at the same time? (inset maniacal laugh #16 here) If so, how'd it do ya?

Finally, decker_cky mentioned moving hoppers up the flank in order to pounce on fleeing units. What about doing this to the faster (and cheaper so more expendable) Out-rigga Pumpwagons? The odds of it going nuts are the same as miscasting on the appropriate dice, so about 7.4% on 3D6 and 13.2% on 4D6. Good odds for a 4D6 run down.

Oh! And hopper and Out-rigga Pumpwagons are the fastest things at pursuing. They might become more common as a result.

[Turtleking]

Are you talking 40 sob'uns, 10wide?

I don't think so. I was answering the post on if I wanted a Orc Deathstar unit which one would I take.

Having said that, I don't think I want a Orc Deathstar unit.

But if I did, would it be 40 x 10 wide? Prob. It would be hard to move around the table but would hit like a truck. I don't think I would use it though. I like to try and keep my units more manageable unless I'm tar-pitting.

[Turtleking]

How has this little gem done for people? Also, has anyone tried to have Azhag and a few goblin mages running BOTH vortexes at the same time? (inset maniacal laugh #16 here) If so, how'd it do ya?

Wheah?

That is rather horrible. Has anyone run this? I didn't even know you could run both vortexes at the same time...

[ihavetoomuchminis]

Back to the magic thing, I'd like to look at Curse of da Bad Moon. For greenskin players who moaned about us not getting Purple Sun, here's the green side of it. It doesn't move as far on the first go (4 - 24 while PSoX is 6-30), but it moves better afterwords (3-18 vs 2-10), won't dispel itself if you don't want it to, and isn't only initiative tests. In fact, 2/3 of the time it will kill half the elves it moves over (yay!). The big version lets you choose the test and uses the big template. This makes it better at killing Chaos Warriors than the Purple Sun is. Casting Itchy Nuisance first is also a death knell waiting to happen.

How has this little gem done for people? Also, has anyone tried to have Azhag and a few goblin mages running BOTH vortexes at the same time? (inset maniacal laugh #16 here) If so, how'd it do ya?

Finally, decker_cky mentioned moving hoppers up the flank in order to pounce on fleeing units. What about doing this to the faster (and cheaper so more expendable) Out-rigga Pumpwagons? The odds of it going nuts are the same as miscasting on the appropriate dice, so about 7.4% on 3D6 and 13.2% on 4D6. Good odds for a 4D6 run down.

Oh! And hopper and Out-rigga Pumpwagons are the fastest things at pursuing. They might become more common as a result.

I've tried the curse of the bad moon one time, and it was great. Killed half unit of grail knights and other stuff.

I've played against it today, but my opponent has been unlucky and hasn't done nothing. But....i've dispelled it every time. It's one of those spells you don't want to get cast against you.

[Tzeentch Lover]

Curse of the Bad Moon is pretty nice, but I wish it caused a wound with no saves allowed. I know "no saves allowed" spells are pretty bad, but seriously it keeps the deathstars in check. I have no idea what I'm going to do if a WoC opponent throws +3 ward chosen at me. The best I can do is throw Fanatics/Manglers/Doomdivers at them and pray they actually fail some ward saves.

Anyone else try Snagla yet? He's performed awesome for me so far.

[Leth Shyish'phak]

Alright. Wurrzag, worth the points? His items are somewhat useful, his warpaint better then nothing. The revenge spell looks VERY FUN, but I doubt I will ever pull it off as it's within 12" AND 6 on a 1d6. So is he worth his very high point cost in a 2k / 2500 list?

Not worth it. The revenge spell is a random chance thing that might be fun to try once but overall would lead to just a series of hit or miss games.

I've been using Wurrzag, and I quite liked him. First of all, he's only 45 points more than a Savage Orc Great Shaman so not really overcosted considering all of the extra stuff he gets.

With his spell, its in addition to his normal ones so you don't lose anything by having it. Also, if you can get 2 or more wizards in range of it and then pin them in combat, you have a decent chance of taking out at least one of them over the game; this is particularly true when fighting Daemons or Vampires, who tend to have their wizards concentrated in one place.

His bound spell isn't that exciting, but if you have an extra power dice left over, 2D6 S3 hits isn't useless.

The Bonewood Staff is a very good item I'd say. It lets him throw lots of dice around (fairly) safely, as well as giving him a 2+ ward against spells. Where I play, Mannfred Von Carstein is used by five different Vampire players and so sniper spells are a real concern for me. With Wurrzag, I stick him in my bsb's unit (he also has a 4+ ward) and that solves the problem nicely.

The Squiggly Beast is an item which will always be useful, items such as the Rod of Power and the Black Periapt show this (particularly good against Dwarves, to negate their stupid stealing rune).

Maybe its just because he fits into my list and my environment, but I think he's a good character to use.

[ihavetoomuchminis]

I find wurzag to be a great option both in-game and fluffy. I'll take it in my savage army, sure. And the model is amazing.

[Turtleking]

Hey Leth,

I might be reading my book incorrectly, but hes a lot more points then a Savage Orc Great Shaman. If you add up him + upgrade to level 4 + give him max ammounts of points in magic items hes only 45 points more. I don't see 100 points in useful items to give him... So it makes him slightly less then 45 points more.

Then again, I think hes going to be super fun to play, so I'm running him. Nice to hear someone has had success with him. Nice Tactic on the bonewood staff.

[Leth Shyish'phak]

Well, the Book of Ashur is a favourite of mine, so I rarely have problems filling a wizard lord's magic allowance.

[Turtleking]

What is everyone thinking about using Squigs? I remember reading a thread about them being assassins before, has anyone tried putting a character onto a uber squig and using them as small unit killers?

[Turtleking]

What is the best way to harass enemy war machines so they don't blow our fun stuff to bits?

Wolves riders as fast cavalry?
Squigs as war machine hunters?
War machines of our own to shoot them?
Magic to kill them?

How does every one deal with war machines?

[ihavetoomuchminis]

Night goblin warboss with flying carpet, ptolos shield and some magic weapon?

[minionboy]

One thing to think about though is the Creeping Assault rule. Those spider riders are going to get 20 attacks against units garrisoning a building. That could make them very nasty in the Watchtower scenario.

[Leth Shyish'phak]

Not really, any decent sized unit can take 20 attacks... Especially Ws2 attacks, half of which are only S3.

Fighting in buildings is for Orcs, not stupid little Goblins.

As for killing war machines, I think wolf riders are best for that; if you want to kill missile units, I'd use Boar Boyz, but not little units, generally at least 10 is best. Chaos Knights are ideal, but I don't think we get those.

Why would you use squigs to go afer war machines?

[Turtleking]

Mostly because I hate the wolf riders models

[Da GoBBo]

What is everyone thinking about using Squigs? I remember reading a thread about them being assassins before, has anyone tried putting a character onto a uber squig and using them as small unit killers?

I think Squigs are a great unit. I have not decided on how to field them though.
- A big horde is a lot of fun, but one failed ld test and the unit is gone.
- Squigbombs could be fun

I have also been thinking about units with lots of handlers and a small amount of squigs, keeping the cost down. Basically take a normal nightgoblin unit without upgrades and swap gear for two ranks of squigs. This makes for a cheap unit that packs a heck of a punch. Be sure to combine it with the itching spell (when needed) to ensure the squigs strike first.