8th Edition Orc & Goblin Armybook Tactics

[Shimmergloom]

Well I took the plunge yesterday... I man my first mangler squig.

I had been holding off until they released the model (so I would know the base size) but with juicy ogres coming out in full force it was just too tempting.

For those interested I went with the fanatic riding a squig version, on a 60mm round.

Leadbelchers will be their bane, but otherwise they wil ltake some serious chunks out of the ogre army

That's true, but I would rather leadbelchers spend a round shooting at a mangler than shooting at other targets. And that's also why you take 2 manglers.

[Avian]

Night goblins, black orcs, savage orcs, squig herds, trolls... it's hard to go wrong

Just avoid the standard Orcs and the standard Goblins.

Two Manglers are probably three or four times as good as one, yeah.

[Djekar]

Now I'm considering making mangler squigs out of fanatics who have their balls replaced with squigs.

[magicmonkey]

put a fanatoc with a squig chain, flying off (and chained too) a larger squig.

[Dungeon_Lawyer]

Why wouldn't it want to? Why wouldn't it obscure most of itself behind a building to make it harder for your chukka to hit it?

Thats exactly the point, A 250+ monster is having its tactical options limited by a 35 point war machine, perhaps not decisivly, but its a factor.

while it can still see and charge what it wants to?

But its already established in this scenario that you set up that the TK creature was "at range"-So your statement of it being able to "charge what it wants to" lacks creditability. Its nowhere near the O&G line, and thats a good thing.

Most likely though it would just laugh at your chukka shots with it's T8 and healing magic... Pretty much the only big monsters that still need to worry about chukkas are...Giants.

Calling into serious question the veracity of this statement: (stegadons, terrorgheists, hydras, shaggoths, chaos warshrines, hellcannons, most dragons, treeman ancients, every Greater Deamon-this list is just for starters) are all wounded by a chukka on a 4+ with no armor save. Spam 6 chukkas- with a 33% chance to hit on a 5 or 6(Im even factoring -1 to hit here) 2 will hit each turn on average, averaging a wound a piece( Even factoring successful wards saves here). Even in the non-optimal scenario generated here, thaT takes into account a 50% ward save success rate and only 33% of your chukkas hitting, 2 wounds per shooting phase on a big monster is going to get your opponents attention. Chukkas work best when you go "all in". You're first shots in the shooting phase should always be with your chukkas, and then, if you scored some wounds and have a big monster teetering on the brink, you focus fire your rare artillary choices on it for the coup d'grace.

Dont be afraid to try the chukka spam every now and then my fellow grennskiners.....If only for giggles.

Chukkas shine especially well in SoM games with its potential for MSU comprised of monsters, monsterous multiwound infantry w/ good armor saves, and other such gribblies. But again, to each thier own, enjoy your extra rank of Ngoblins and Ill enjoy my chukkas!

Plus Chukkas can fire at more than just "big monsters". I find they attract attention, must be accounted for in an opponents tactical plans-especially in how they move units around the battlefield & usually an opponent has to allocate more points to destroy the 35 point chukka unit than its worth. All good outcomes for a greenskin...

I like chukkas, will always look to add a few! or 6

[Shimmergloom]

6 chukkas aren't all going to be able to shoot at the same monster, especially not all at short range, unless you pack them all into the same spot, where they are easier to be dealt with all at once.

As far as the monster staying away from your lines, you are O&G. Your lines should be advancing on the enemy at all times. You cannot sit back and just chukka spam a stegadon, hydra, hpa or what have you. Because while you are doing your 1-2 wounds from 6 chukkas, his slann, sorc or grey seer is busily tearing out huge portions of your army with their magic. The type of magic that greenskins do not have and cannot compete with. You need to be in combat as fast as possible.

So yes, his hydra can skulk behind a building, making sure it has charge arcs on you as you draw near. Because he doesn't have to get into combat and he doesn't want to get into combat.

I think that's the main problem right now that I see with most Ogre lists. There's a lot of talk about taking 2 super cannons and 2 scrap launchers and maneater snipers, but all that is not the ogre way.

Those are nice support shooting, like doom divers or lobbas, but Ogres, like Greenskins, need to be in combat and need to be in combat as fast as possible.

Also, let me mention the chukka spam. This is also a war of escalation you do not want to engage in. If your opponents are nice enough to only have one hpa or one hydra, you do not want to start escalating things with 6 chukkas and then see 2 hydras or 2 hpas, in the next game.

You cannot win this war of escalation.

[Malorian]

More like 2 HPAs, 2 doomwheels, and the storm banner...

[Avian]

I both agree and disagree with Mr Dungeon_Lawyer. A pair of Chukkas can be useful units to have in the backfield, where they can be annoying, and they can cause things like fast cavalry and eagles some worries.

However, I think you will find that with 6 you run out of useful places to put them, what with the new rules on lines of sight and cover.

I also disagree on the order you should fire your weapons. Given that the Rock Lobber has a much greater variance in damage (D6 instead of D3), you should fire that first and then any Spear Chukkas later if needed. If you do 2 wounds to a 5-wound monster with a Chukka and then hit it with a Rock Lobber and roll a 5 for the number of wounds, you have essentially wasted the Chukka shot, which could have gone for something else.

I own 2 Spear Chukkas and have not felt any need for more.

[selone]

Hehe shimmer I am one of those people whose lists you might frown at I played quite defensively with my Orcs too, perhaps thats the problem.

[w3rm]

2 Chukkas and a doom diver make up my artillery for greenskins. Magic IMO is just better at doing long range damage then the chukkas ever would. They're very cheap and thats why I take them.

On the subject of wolf riders: I've never used them, but two units of 5 are great at threatening war machines and charging screening units. They can deal with chamo skinks so well as long as they both charge. One unit will get mauled but the other will be untouched.

[russellmoo]

I think people here are missing the larger problem-

In a 2000 point game chukka spam might just work- however, at 2500-3000pts- having chukkas means you either keep a hole in your battle line to shoot through- or rely on having a hill in your deployment-

If your army goes from table edge to table edge there is nowhere to place a bunch of warmachines that are reliant on BS to hit-

I think the only real way for this to work is to go all shooting-

Fill up your core with ng and savage bows, take 6 chukkas, 2 doom divers, 2 lobbas- you get the idea-

However, since I play orcs in the style of run up and smash the enemy- this has no appeal to me-

Really, what I think we are experiencing here is the difference between true Orc style generalship, and Goblin/Night Goblin style generalship

[Malorian]

Really, what I think we are experiencing here is the difference between true Orc style generalship, and Goblin/Night Goblin style generalship

Us orcz will neva un'erstand dem goblinz...




6 chukkas is the same cost as a horde of orcs, or you could get a decent warboss.

[Ghremdal]

Or you can get a unit of 6 trolls.

[Malorian]

Or you can get a unit of 6 trolls.

Perfect comparision

[Nickthebear]

Always use a unit of 6 trolls in my games, well river trolls i should say, even if they dont manage to get into a fight and get some victory points they are a number of victory points people will have to work to get having regeneration and having 18 wounds to get rid of before getting any vitory points for them. Thats one thing i have been keeping in mind alot with 8th, how easy is it to destroy the uni altogether, hence having 40 strong night gobbos etc, either people ignore them cuz they are not much of a thrat in smoe peoples eyes then thats couple hundred points they wont get, or they will spend too much time and/or effort trynig to wipe them out after going through fanatics and being tied up for awhile as they cant shift the hopefully steadfast unit that has netters to weaken them so it takes longer, and of course the sneaky gits will tek out few dudes before some lovely trolls come and say hi in the flank or whatever flanker units you have (we have enough choice)

[ashc]

How have people found the arachnorok's performance?

[magicmonkey]

only played against an arachnarok. it wasnt that good. and i've seen it in other ga,mes, it was pretty underwhelming.

[TMATK]

I've only used an arock against Woc, and generally it's great. It can rush down the flank and take out the hellcannons. It can take out a diminished unit of infantry, but against a large block it needs to act as support.

Of course Hellcannons can shoot it down, but at least they have a reasonable chance of missing. Against regular cannons it's probably dead before it does anything, but that's just the way the game is now.

[Avian]

How have people found the arachnorok's performance?

Used one for the first time at a tournament this last weekend and I think it has some good potential. It's not the easiest unit to work with, since it's not THAT killy against a lot of unit and it comes on such a massive base, but it has VERY good manoeverability and doesn't have to take any of those annoying start-of-turn tests. With more practice (and not facing Empire / Dwarfs ), I think it could do really well.

I'd even consider the Flinger upgrade next time, since mine spent quite a bit of time in the beginning of battles hanging back and waiting for targets to present themselves.

I'd recommend it.

[ashc]

How about vs. Skaven? They will be my main opponent.