8th Edition Orc & Goblin Armybook Tactics

[ghost of scubasteve]

Ninjad! Words

[Djekar]

I've been impressed with Arrer Boyz in the past. So far, it's the only way I've been able to stomach the common orcs since the new book.

[Whut]

What is the popular opinion of Goblin Chariots? I feel that at low points (1000-ish) they are borderline OP but as you get into higher and higher points they become less and less effective.

At 2500, do you think Goblin chariots are worth it, or can the points better be used elsewhere?





Here is my list (copy pasted from Excel, sorry if it ends up poorly formatted) :
(At the moment I am at 2570, so I have to shave off 70 points)

Lords	#
Savage Great Shaman, Lvl 4, Fencer'sBlades, ShrunkenHead	1
SO Warboss, ASF Sword, Armor of 2+ Save, Dawnstone, Pot of Speed	1
Heroes	#
Black Orc BSB, Tally of Preservation, Enchanted Shield	1
Night Goblin Shaman, Lvl 2, Dispel Scroll, Ruby Ring	1
Core	#
Savage Orc Big-Uns w/ AHW, Standard, Music	40
Night Goblins w/ Nets, Music	70
Special	#
Squig Herd, 40 Squigs, 15 Goblins	55
Goblin Chariots	3
Rare	#
River Trolls	8
Mangler Squig	2

[datalink7]

Um... what?

Maybe I'm have a unique advantage in that I play both Orcs and Goblins and Vampire Counts, but VC is at a HUGE disadvantage against greenskins.

Why? Because VC does best against units that can't pump out the damage.Normally their crumble rule keeps them in check and then in return their rasing can make up for losses. Against greenskins though this isn't possible.

Do you realize that a horde of savage orc big uns with extra choppa will kill 27.8 spear skeletons and then (assuming equal static res) another 22.2 skeletons will crumble for a total of 50! Remember that VC can only raise once every two combat phases, so before they can raise they will lose 81.5 skeletons to the savages? (yes I made them str 4 in the second round)

Pretty much their only change is a horde of crypt horrors or to go all ethereal, and if the orc player take magic weapons then ethereal is out too.


And who cares about monsters? This is 8th ed people! An age with more cannons and mroe accurate cannons, and steadfast to make your monsters stall in combat (if they make it there).


I know others don't agree, but I still see orcs and goblins as the most powerful 8th ed book released.

Except, what Vampire Counts player in his right mind would fight skeletons against Savage Orcs? Savage orcs are incredibly easy to deal with due to frenzy. I always play with at least 3 x 5 Dire Wolves. If I see someone drop a savage orc horde against me, all they are ever going to see all game is those dire wolves placed in front of them at weird angles. If they charge, they are going to overrun in the direction I want them to. If they don't, they've just wasted a turn reforming and I'm just going to place another Dire Wolf group in front of them.

And I always run single spirit host bases, which also work for the same effect if they have a way to deal with the Dire Wolves through missile fire. Savage Orcs are about the least of my concerns when fighting Orcs. I fear Black Orcs more, but they aren't as killy and can be dealt with through normal fighting means if you do it correctly.

[Djekar]

@Whut:

I run gobbo chariots in almost every greenskin army I make - even up to 5000 point games. They are cheap so it isn't a big deal if someone takes them out (which, admittedly is pretty easy to do compared to boar chariots), but if they don't - most likely due to dealing with other chaff in the list - then they can pack quite a bit of punch in a small frontage. Also, the swiftstride + 9" charge is quite a long way, and I've started using them to hit warmachines if I get the chance.

The points you spend on them are well worth it in any game. Just watch out for LD tests!

[Malorian]

Except, what Vampire Counts player in his right mind would fight skeletons against Savage Orcs? Savage orcs are incredibly easy to deal with due to frenzy. I always play with at least 3 x 5 Dire Wolves. If I see someone drop a savage orc horde against me, all they are ever going to see all game is those dire wolves placed in front of them at weird angles. If they charge, they are going to overrun in the direction I want them to. If they don't, they've just wasted a turn reforming and I'm just going to place another Dire Wolf group in front of them.

And I always run single spirit host bases, which also work for the same effect if they have a way to deal with the Dire Wolves through missile fire. Savage Orcs are about the least of my concerns when fighting Orcs. I fear Black Orcs more, but they aren't as killy and can be dealt with through normal fighting means if you do it correctly.

You have to spend 25% of your points on some weak core, take your choice.

Orcs and goblins out shoot and out magic vampire counts (as sad as that is) so delay all you want, I'll just keep throwing foot of gork on you. Not to mention our 35 point troll will clear out a unit of wolves with no problem.

Ethereal is the ONLY thing saving vampires from total wipe out, and that's solved with a magic weapon and/or foot of gork. Like in the tournament coming up where my warboss has 8 str 6 magical atacks, so even a unit of wraiths will just fade away in a single combat.

[datalink7]

You have to spend 25% of your points on some weak core, take your choice.

Orcs and goblins out shoot and out magic vampire counts (as sad as that is) so delay all you want, I'll just keep throwing foot of gork on you. Not to mention our 35 point troll will clear out a unit of wolves with no problem.

Ethereal is the ONLY thing saving vampires from total wipe out, and that's solved with a magic weapon and/or foot of gork. Like in the tournament coming up where my warboss has 8 str 6 magical atacks, so even a unit of wraiths will just fade away in a single combat.

I'm not delaying overall, I'm delaying the Savage Orcs, which is a big difference.

And trolls clearing out Wolves won't make a difference when that clearing out is happening right in front of the Savage Orcs. They are blocked either way.

I saw your tournament list. All I'm saying is that Savage Orcs aren't as big a concern to me as Black Orcs. And I don't see anything particularly scary about your tournament list. Not saying it is bad, but I've beaten such lists before with my Vampire Counts. I'm a bit confused as to why you feel you can walk all over Vampire Counts with it. Perhaps your local meta hasn't gotten a good handle on how to run the new Vamps.

But I don't want to derail this thread too much away from its primary subject, so I'll back out of this thread.

[Whut]

I would actually be terrified to clear out wolves with trolls right in front of my battleline. What happens if a spirit host hits the troll at an angle unchargeable by the SOBU? Then you're stuck there and have to use several turns to reform and move around it.

[Treadhead_1st]

Hey everyone.

I am pondering a second force to go alongside my painstakingly slow High Elf force (the vast majority of the models are currently looking like they'll be 1/4 kit-bash, 1/4 conversion, 1/2 hand-sculpted, and I've around 120-130 models at 2500), and to have a break between getting all three Elven armies I eventually want. I've always had a soft-spot for Orcs and Goblins, especially the sneaky little guys, and it does seem to be coming down to a split between Orcs and Goblins and Skaven at this point - but I think the greens are pulling me towards them, possibly because I've enjoyed Orks in 40K before, and possibly because I am a bit undecided about the steampunk-biotech theme the Skaven have going on.

Anyway, whilst I know I need to obtain the Army Book at some point to make firm decisions, I'd like to throw a few ideas around and see if you fine folks think it would work or not (if not, I might peruse what the Skaven are capable of a little more closely).

The image in my mind that I keep coming back to is: an Orc Warboss with delusions of grandeur, taking his Boyz on a nice jaunty raid through the Old World - he's a smart one, and learning from the military discipline and tactics of the Empire and Dwarfs he faces regularly - but alas is blighted with exasperation that his force has attracted a following of sneaky, greedy, back-stabbing and smelly Goblins that keep mucking up his "well-kunnin'" plans. The little blighters darting this way and that throughout his camp and wreaking all manner of havoc on the battlefield in their drug-maddened states and with ferocious beasts. And stealing his things. And anything else not nailed down.

Ok, it is hardly sterling background-material just yet, but it puts a smile on my face whenever I think about it.

So, in game-terms I'm thinking a Warboss-led army, perhaps mounted on a Wyvern, Boar or Chariot (if the latter is possible?), with some Orc blocks (regular Orcs - the Gobbos are plenty crazy enough for this Warboss, and he has a strong dislike of those Black Orcs), Arrer Boyz and a few Boar Chariots/Cavalry too. I reckon this would make a nice (and obvious) offensive contingent, which is supported by considerable numbers of Goblins - Night Goblins mainly, for all the Squigs, Fanatics, shroom-head Shamans and so on, but definitely throwing in one Doom Diver at least and maybe some other artillery too. I am hoping would appear to be the "weak" elements yet "hide" some nasty punches (even if one of those punches is a Shaman blowing his brains out).

Could an army like that 1) fit into 2500-3000 points and 2) would it work?

I know that "mixed" is quite a common playstyle, so I apologise if this is a fairly vanilla idea, but would combining your common garden Orc and Night Goblins be a solid foundation? I don't mind missing out on Wolf Riders/Chariots, Spider Riders, Arachnaroks and Common Goblins too much from what I have seen - the Nasty Skulkers look like fun but I prefer the look of Night Goblins, my partner is extremely arachnophobic, and I'm not sure I'd need the light cavalry/chariots with the various Squig units available (and heavier cavalry/chariots crewed by the Orcs). Savage Orcs do not appeal to me too much either, though Black Orcs might in the right circumstances. I would be happy to take Trolls and Giants too (I've a fun idea for the Troll unit, and a Giant...is a Giant).

Anyway, I've rambled enough, I'll let you fine gentlemen get back to your discussions.

[Kaos]

I just played a test game (2500)against Empire with an all Goblin Army(fer fun). Here is what I had:


Goblin Warboss, General, Chariot, Gw, 4+ Ward,
Goblin Warboss Mask of Eee, Sh, 5+ Ward Heavy Armour, Wolf, Ogreblade
Goblin Bigboss, bsb, Wolf, 5+Ward, la, Sword of Might, shield
Goblin Shamanlord, lvl 4, Wolf

20 Goblin Wolfriders Full kit, Full Command
20 Spiderriders Full Kit, Full Command
Night Goblinsx3 Shortbows
Squigherders 18 Sq-12 Herd
6 Troll
Goblin Chariot
2 Chuckas
Rocklobber
Rocklobber
Doom Diver
Doom Diver
Giant

My Opponent had a main body of Halberdiers, two big units with detatchements, 3*10 handgunners, mortar, cannon, hellblaster, Steam Tank and some six characters.

I just tried this army for fun and against these poor almost naked T3 men my 100+ shortbows and artillery just ripped a big gaping hole in his army and i never saw any major fights, just a bit of mop up.

I am going to to try this list again tomorrow against the same friend and he will be bringing knights and see if it goes better. My Doom Divers shivers in anticipation.

Gotta say tho, Tactically.. It was a very nice feeling to be able to deploy 3/4 of the tabletop with just artillery and night goblins plus the Squigs in case something needed to die close up. And then place the main army on the farthest table edge and march around or even punch trough the flank with the buses, trolls and giant plus shaman and chariots. This time i never came to that, but I can see it happen now. Will try it out a couple more times against other armies too and see if it keeps up the pressure. I was very lucky in that i did not face lots of panic tests, for the record hehe..

Anyways, fun to try something else but the Big Blocks of Doom that are repeated here all the time.

Cheers-Kaos

[JDV311]

Ok here's my first attempt at a 3000pt Night Goblin list:

Night Goblin warboss: Armor of Destiny, Fencers Blade, Dragonbane Gem, Ironcurse Icon=150pts In Bunker

Night Goblin Great Shaman: Level 4, Channeling Staff, Talisman of Endurance=220pts

Night Goblin Big Boss: BSB, Light armor,shield, Banner of Discipline=76pts In Bunker

Night Goblin Big Boss X 8: Great Weapons=39pts each (4 in each 100pt block)

Night Goblin Shaman: Level 2, Dispel Scroll, Ruby Ring of Ruin=135pts

Night Goblin Warboss: Great Cave Squig, Sword of Might, Armor of Fortune, Shield=153pts (w/Hoppers)

CORE

Night Goblins (95): Full Command, Nets, Spear, Shields=360pts

Night Goblins (96): Full Command, Nets, Shortbows=363pts

Night Goblins Bunker(33): Full Command, Nets, Spears, 2 Fanatics=224pts

Night Goblins (49): Full Command, Nets, Shortbows, 2 Fanatics=272pts

Squig Herd (40/15)=365pts

Squig Hoppers (5)=60pts

Mangler Squigs (2)=65pts each

River Trolls (2)=90pts

Stone Trolls (2)=90pts

Please let me know what you think, Thanks in advance!

[Winterfell]

If I was going to use a unit of savage orcs with bows what would be the best size unit to use? I like the idea of a ranged unit with a ward save.

[venomx51]

If I was going to use a unit of savage orcs with bows what would be the best size unit to use? I like the idea of a ranged unit with a ward save.

I think if you want a ranged unit, I'd go for normal Orc Arrer Boyz (or night goblins). For the price of 14 Savage Orcs with Shield (for the same armour save) and Bow, you could have 20 Arrer Boyz. That's 40% more models, which makes the unit more survivable than the ward save's 1 in 6 chance to save a model. Not to mention getting 40% more shots...

[venomx51]

This interests me.

Does anyone else have any experience with this set-up?

Anything to add, venomx51?

Malorian highlighted a few things already, so to add to that

It's the vomit attack I like most; 2 automatic hits, with no armour saves allowed. That's pretty much 2 dead chaos knights right there, charge or not. Then into the second round and beyond you've got regen and S5 attacks to keep you going, not to mention a stomp attack against infantry.

The Troll 'chariot' has a smaller frontage for what it's worth (not much tbh, as I try to run them into a corners of an already engaged units, but still). They have Stupidity, but can march 12" and are 10 points cheaper so swings and roundabouts really, but the Troll chariot has the edge for me.

[Drakcore Bloodtear]

Well I played my first game with the new book and edition, and it was so much fun!

Everything about 8th edition is great, albeit with the dependency on huge blocks my Wolf Riders with bows weren't great, but I played Skaven and I got a draw.
The Mangler Squig only killed 4 slaves before being instantly killed by a Brass Orbs, but i can see why people love them, Doom Diver blew up first turn, and the Lobba only hit 4 clan rats through out the entire game. One unit of wolfs failed their animosity and ran towards the biggest unit of Clan rats, and died. The second unit got charged by a lone Warlord and also died.

However, the Blorcs killed 3 whole units of 40 rats, the Night Goblins all killed a bucket load of rats as well (so did the fanatics) and each magic phase was brutal (loving the new lores), generally the whole army did more than expected.

All in all, I love the new book and the new rules!

[stemalo]

Nice to see a fellow orcquer having fun.

Long live the waaagh

Sent from my LG-P935 using Tapatalk 2

[Glenn87]

Right Malorian, another question for you.
As I'll have to drop the Troll horde (due to our shops new 'no-proxy' allowed), I'm still looking for replacements.
Are 4 Hordes too much?
I'm thinking of S'Orcs, B'Orcs, Squig Herd and NG horde (80+ models) with GW Bosses in there.
Also, without the Trolls, would you 'bunker' the lvl 4? Otherwise I'd make him a SO lvl 4 with the Shrunken Head.

I'm going to try out the Troll Chariot, but I think I'll like the Wolf Chariot more.

[Glenn87]

Also, about the NG horde.
I'm going to try out a unit of 100 NG's + GW Big Bosses.
How many Big Bosses would you guys field?

[Malorian]

Right Malorian, another question for you.
As I'll have to drop the Troll horde (due to our shops new 'no-proxy' allowed), I'm still looking for replacements.
Are 4 Hordes too much?
I'm thinking of S'Orcs, B'Orcs, Squig Herd and NG horde (80+ models) with GW Bosses in there.
Also, without the Trolls, would you 'bunker' the lvl 4? Otherwise I'd make him a SO lvl 4 with the Shrunken Head.

I'm going to try out the Troll Chariot, but I think I'll like the Wolf Chariot more.

There is nothing wrong with 4 hordes, you just have to dedicate one to be out of general/bsb range.

Bunkering is a different matter. If I have the points I like to make mine a shavage with the shrunken head in the savage big uns (and make him the general), but if you don't have the points or want to be extra careful then you'll need a bunker. It's all about the level of risk you are willing to take.

[Glenn87]

Alright,
this is what I have right now:


290 Savage Orc Shaman: lvl 4, Fencers Blades, Lucky Shrunken Head

70 NG Big Boss: BSB, Standard of Discipline
34 NG Big Boss: Great Weapon
34 NG Big Boss: Great Weapon
34 NG Big Boss: Great Weapon
34 NG Big Boss: Great Weapon
34 NG Big Boss: Great Weapon
75 NG Shaman: Dispel Scroll

440 40 Savage Orc Big’Uns: 2 hand weapons
420 100 Night Goblins: Nets, 3 Fanatics, spear and shield
55 5 Wolf Riders: spear/short bow
55 5 Wolf Riders: spear/short bow

365 Squig Herd: 40 Squigs, 15 Handlers
50 Wolf Chariot
50 Wolf Chariot

130 2 Mangler Squigs
160 2 Doom Divers


This leaves me with 170 points to spend. I dropped the Blorcs, because I'd have to drop some support units (such as the Doom Divers or Wolf Chariots) for them. And I find those to do alot for me.
Where should the 170 points go? maybe upgrade the NG shaman to a lvl 2 and add some more GW Big Bosses? or not?