8th Edition Orc & Goblin Armybook Tactics

[bad dice]

I play a wyvern war boss with sword of striking, armour of fortune, and crown of command, in almost all my games.
I saturate him with 2 manglers and a giant.
Usually my opponents are too busy targeting the manglers that the wyvern is in combat or already did what he had to do.
As a precaution though, I do put up a ld 8 character in my other blocks.
So far, it has been great strategy.
He can take out war machines and small anti-harassment units that the fast cav just panic-tested and ran away to.
This used to be a big problem, a cannon protected by 10 or so archers, the archers would kill 2 wolves and then scram.
The wyvern never does that, which is why I love this guy.
That and double teaming a block with a giant and a wyvern.

It`s a list that has to be built around, but I thoroughly enjoy the monster list even with the risk of cannon getting off a one shot. Terror bombing is pretty neat as well when dealing with isolated blocks away from the general, and with a crown of command, I find he can go assassinate something and stay there for a while.

Overall, a solid choice that deals with the lackings of the army, just want a second giant in that list, or an arachnarok...

I gues it works where you are playing but what makes me wonder why would ppl ever shoot at the manglers instead of the WB
Now dont get me wrong manglers are nasty but shooting warmachines at them seems a waste. 10 shooting infantry would do just fine.

Then again we could argue the point till goats learn to fly.
I think its a neat option but i would not take the risk in a competative list. Maby its differend for other ppl tough.
And if you like monster why not

[Djekar]

I've found that manglers are pretty resilient to small arms fire with T4 W3 and the softcover bonus. Not invincible for sure, but it does seem to take a disproportionate number of shots to put them down.

One of the reasons I love them - they require a response. And if there isn't small arms fire - only warmachines (I've seen Dwarf lists without crossbows/handguns) - the choice is even harder.

[bad dice]

Oh sure for one moddle its pretty tough when it comes to shooting but for it's cost it's rather squiosy .
A troll is only 35 points and just as resliant.
Also i dont know about you list but i think the only things its worth shooting at against my O&G list would be the manglers and te rederictors the other units are just far to large to be effectifly shot at

[Oogie boogie boss]

Nothing is too large to be shot to death, as long as you have enough firepower and concentrate it sufficiently. And Mnaglers aren't as resilient as Trolls, but they can potentially deal out a lot more damage and restrict your opponents maneuvering and bnattle plan a lot more.

[Yowzo]

Nothing is too large to be shot to death, as long as you have enough firepower and concentrate it sufficiently. And Mnaglers aren't as resilient as Trolls, but they can potentially deal out a lot more damage and restrict your opponents maneuvering and bnattle plan a lot more.

The thing with manglers is that you can't hit them back. They just go, inflict 2D6 high-strength hits and turn up on your rearguard, whereby they can start randomly traveling through units. Well, you can insta-kill them, but you get 3d6 hits on that.

That gives the willies to basically any general.

With trolls you can hit them back and, with numbers, eventually drop them. Manglers are a massive psych weapon, most opponents will go out of their way to kill them (mangling -pun intended- their deployment and early movements).

[Montegue]

As a dwarf player, it's been my experience that the Orcs present three primary and deadly threats -

1) Must-kill target saturaton

2) Savage Orc Big Unz with an extra hand weapon

3) Regular Boyz with a couple of very killy characters.

Putting that Warboss on the Wyvern *would* be a real problem for me. I would have to choose between an Arach or Giant, the Wyvern boss, and the Manglers (or whatever else he decided to toss out there, like a Doom Driva). Orc warbosses can just absolutely wreck a unit if you let them. I think I'd take the lesser of two evils, kill the Warboss, and then hope to get a shot off on the Arach or Giant. Organ Guns would have to be directed to the manglers. Of course, if I do that, the Savages get in mostly unscathed, unless my Grudge Thrower was really hot that game. Oh, and they brought a cave troll...or nine...

[bad dice]

Sounds like you need less warmachines and more units whit great weapons to me

I hate playing against dwarfs. Cause they hit just so hard and they all hate me (then again squigs go trough dwafs like a hot chainsaw trough butter)
But you make one point verry clear and i think its verry true

You can't stop orc en goblins whit shooting. They'll just suck it op and then stomp your shooters falt when they get there.

[Djekar]

Orcs are one of the armies I feel can get away with big monsters since they have such an ability (as noted) to saturate the board with juicy potential targets. Even if mangler squigs aren't monsters per se, they do require attention. But then, so does our cheap chaff (fast cav or trolls or chariots or all!), and the Arachnarok is a scary thing to see coming, and really the Giant is quite good at beating up other monsters/small units. Add a wyvern and there really isn't a good option to ignore (okay, maybe the Giant. That guy is squishy). Not to mention there are probably 2 powerful blocks headed your way too.

As for Orcs vs. shooting, I swept a small local 'Ard Boyz right after 8th came out because the local meta was shooting focused and I brought large blocks of angry greenskins. It wasn't much of a contest - you have to have one hell of a shooting phase (I'm looking at you Wood Elves, Dwarves and Skaven) to put a sizable dint in the horde. Gunlines (static ones at least) don't seem to work - in my experience at least. Which I'm all for.

For dwarves, I miss when hatred made you auto pursue. That was really great to get dwarves to run out into ambushes, fanatics, what-have you. Le sigh. At least it isn't unmodifiable LD 10 any more...

[russellmoo]

The other factor that makes it, hard if not impossible to shoot orcs to death is the Hand of Gork spell- force it through on the first turn against a gunline and they get to shoot your horde once-

The problem with the warboss on wyvern though isn't against gunlines- it's against those 3000pt lists that have 2-3 warmachines, not the ones that have 5+, if your opponent has a single cannon (say ogres) they are going to shoot at the large monster that costs the most points (warboss on wyvern) their army can deal with the horde units and other things-

I'm not saying you can't make a warboss on wyvern work, and have fun using it- but it is what it is- a sub-optimal choice due to the risk factor involved in taking it (which doesn't mean it's bad, just that it's not the best option available)-

[Shimmergloom]

Well, you can insta-kill them, but you get 3d6 hits on that.

Which is easy for nearly every army as nearly every army has cheap 21-50pt chaff units that can easily land right on a mangler and kill it, giving away very little points, or if lucky surviving. A troll for example, might just survive when landing on a mangler.

[Yowzo]

Which is easy for nearly every army as nearly every army has cheap 21-50pt chaff units that can easily land right on a mangler and kill it, giving away very little points, or if lucky surviving. A troll for example, might just survive when landing on a mangler.

That's why those units are primary targets for doom divers. Wolf riders can also help them clear a path (they're faster and vanguard move). A NG boss on squig also helps a lot (and random movement means fast cav can't flee and reform).

Against eagles there's little you can do besides doom dive'em. Against most other things you can outmaneuver them.

[bad dice]

I dont know I dont think you have a good change of shooting of all redirectors before they commit sucide to the mangler.
Bu that not to bad. I mean whit out redirectors they stand no change of preventing your combat hordes fromm going where they damm well please. And stomping some stuff flat

[Shimmergloom]

If someone takes 3 units of 5 hounds, then that means you can waste 2 doom diver direct hits on 2 units and they can still take out at least 1 mangler with their 3rd unit. And it is very likely they don't lose all their hounds to the 2 doom diver shots anyway.

So what you have is two wasted doom diver shots and two dead manglers.

Either way, if I was a WoC player and my opponent just shot his two doom divers at 2 hound units instead of at my knights or chosen, then I'd be very happy.

[bad dice]

True this.

I think doom drivers and manglers sould both try and take out the opponets heavy armoured stuff.
The savage orcs en squigs can kill lightly armoured stuff whit out any problems anyway .

[kaubin]

True this.

I think doom drivers and manglers sould both try and take out the opponets heavy armoured stuff.
The savage orcs en squigs can kill lightly armoured stuff whit out any problems anyway .

I usually take arrer boys or bowmen night gobbos to get rid of those redirectors.
If they get too hasty in trying to kill those Manglers, odds are they wont be in the general leadership bubble, and 2 or 3 dead guys will cause a bad panic.

Although most games I had with cheap redirectors against manglers (which are getting rare in my area BTW), they basically tried to get forward enough to step on them next turn without getting hit by the mangler first, and then the manger used to go back a little and stop them from being able to sit on them, while the knights and expensive stuff laid back waiting to get them cleared out of the way, which is still working fine in keeping the hard stuff away from my battle lines...

[Yowzo]

If someone takes 3 units of 5 hounds, then that means you can waste 2 doom diver direct hits on 2 units and they can still take out at least 1 mangler with their 3rd unit. And it is very likely they don't lose all their hounds to the 2 doom diver shots anyway.

Is really anyone taking 3 units of hounds? In my experience, people take 2 units max of any redirector (eagles, hounds, gutter runners, etc.)

As I said before, DD's are a last resort measure. Ideally it's wolves and gobbo bosses on spider/squig who'll take care of them.

I'd rather "waste" a doom diver hit on dogs if that means the knights get the full mangler treatment on the following turn.

[bad dice]

Is really anyone taking 3 units of hounds? In my experience, people take 2 units max of any redirector (eagles, hounds, gutter runners, etc.)

As I said before, DD's are a last resort measure. Ideally it's wolves and gobbo bosses on spider/squig who'll take care of them.

I'd rather "waste" a doom diver hit on dogs if that means the knights get the full mangler treatment on the following turn.

You would? The change of sucses seems so low. Most redirectors will be 5 strong and its only d6 hits. I gues it works if you use it as a list resort like when spells and other shooting fails. Or is that what you where saying?

[Drakcore Bloodtear]

But most redirectors will have low LD and be out of range of the general, you don't need to kill them you need to stop them from doing their work

[Yowzo]

Enough to cause a panic test, hounds are ld5 and very likely out of BSB/Insp. presence so chances are they'll flee.

And yes, I was saying the best way for manglers to get home is to be screened by wolves or gobbos on giant squigs, DD should be used as a last-ditch effort when everything else has failed.

[Drakcore Bloodtear]

Well I played the new Empire on the weekend and my first thoughts were....damn my luck was bad!!!

His army wasn't hugely competitive but my Rock Lobba failed to hit anything, DD killed one knight then blew up, NG on the left flank just ran away after panic from fleeing wolf riders, the NG on the right flank just netted themselves, the Mangler caused 2 wounds before flying off the board, Blorcs got purple sun'd and the Foot of Gork went off once, scattered twice for minimal damage, then wandered off.
So..... yeah

Anyway I was thinking of using my first whole Gobbo army with 8th ed

Goblin Warboss, wolf, Basha's Axe, Armour of Destiny, shield

Night Goblin Shaman, lv4, Tricker shard, Skull Wand

Goblin Big Boss, bsb, waling banner, la, shield

Night Goblin Big Boss, GW

Night Goblin Big Boss, GW

Goblin Big Boss, Gigantic Spider, Sword of Anti-Heroes, the Other Tricker Shard, LA, Shield

40 Goblins, FA, Spears, Shield, 3 Skulkers

30 Night Goblins, FA, Shields, Spears, Nets, 2 Fanatics

30 Night Goblins, FA, Shields, Spears, Nets, 2 Fanatics

20 Night Goblin, Standard, Musician, bows, 1 fanatic

5 Wolf Riders, Musician, Spears

5 Wolf Riders, Musician, Spears

3 Goblin Wolf Chariots, extra gobbo and wolf

30 Squigs, 10 handlers

6 Trolls

4 Spear Chukkas

2 Mangler Squigs

2 Doom Divers

Giant

2922pts

What do you think, I've got some points left over so maybe getting rid of the giant and adding an A'rok?
Also would Shields really be worth it on the Wolf Riders?

I know somethings aren't hugely competitive, like the NG bosses and the Skull Wand but I'm just adding them for the hell of it!

But generally tell me what you think?