8th Edition Orc & Goblin Armybook Tactics

[Malorian]

I was actually wondering about what would be the best unit to take with the poison banner:

Night goblin archers: cheap and can get nets to better protect the bsb
Goblin archers: slightly more expensive but can get 3 skulkers to protect the bsb
Goblin archers w/ shields: even more expensive but at least they have a 5+ armor and 6+ parry
Orc archers: longer range and better punch in combat
Savage archers: more attacks to take advantage of poison

All in all I think staying cheaper is better, but I may have to try it in the savage orc unit.

[Djekar]

The savage unit might be pretty amazing with poison, at least to try for a one off. I'm not sure what will happen when you hang the BSB off the side of the unit though - does that make him more vulnerable or less? I'm thinking less, since he at least still gets a LO,S! roll.

[Malorian]

It would be safer since less models would be in base to base with it in unit vs unit combat.

Just don't get flanked

[Folomo]

I tried a similar list to what Malorian suggested. My recommendations:

1) My first recommendation on the "Orc Gunline" is to try to make almost all shooti units able to also fight in CC. No matter how much you can shoot, you will anyways end up having to fight in CC. Using savage orcs with bows >> normal orcs with bows. Normal goblins with shield+bow+skulkers >> NG with bows and nets.
2) In my experience, normal goblins with shields make a better unit for the poison standard. They are far better on CC than the NG archer unit, in fact against most units they are far better than a NG s&s unit.
3) Animosity is really a pain with the Orc gunline. When you are holding the line and trying to delay combat a round or two, almost always a unit decides to charge, and since they are far away, they fail to charge and end up in a bad position, making a hole in your line. This is, in my experience, the worst thing of the Orc gunline.
4) Poisoned goblins obliterate most monsters and Doom divers destroy heavy armored targets. I'm not really sure the Black orc unit is really useful here, but I hadn't tried them in this sort of list.
5) Tried the little Waagh magic, but in the end I was a bit disappointed. The 5+ poison wasn't as good as it sounded on paper (almost always I was hitting on a 6 with the shooting, between long range and light cover or other thing like that or the enemy dispelled it when it could really matter). The -speed didn't make any real difference either. On the other hand, my unit ended trying to charge the slowed unit and failed, so I cant really know if it would have made a real difference otherwise. Haven't tried the Big Waagh magic yet with this list, but i think it should add to the damage done really nicely.
6) I would add some small wolf units, to annoy, harass and delay the enemy as long as possible. Every round out of CC is another unit you will be pounding your enemy and he isn't.

[Malorian]

Even without the str 7 being useful on the black orcs, the 2 str 5 attacks at WS4 is great.

Nice point on the 5+ to hit thing. Didn't even think about that one. You'll really only have one time to use it and then they will charge and you'll be hitting on 6+ anyway.

[TsukeFox]

Even without the str 7 being useful on the black orcs, the 2 str 5 attacks at WS4 is great.

Nice point on the 5+ to hit thing. Didn't even think about that one. You'll really only have one time to use it and then they will charge and you'll be hitting on 6+ anyway.

But at least in combat the Savage Boworcs will auto wound on 5s.

Add a Magic hat and a lucky roll of light with another lucky roll of speed of light and that unit becomes solid gold.

[bad dice]

Even without the str 7 being useful on the black orcs, the 2 str 5 attacks at WS4 is great.

Nice point on the 5+ to hit thing. Didn't even think about that one. You'll really only have one time to use it and then they will charge and you'll be hitting on 6+ anyway.

Still not a bad spell to have
2 units of poisned shooters is better then 1.

Anamosity will make this list hard to play tough. Since O&G tend to break up there own battle line.

On the other hand wolfriders are gold in this sort of army just run them in front of the enemy andvance and a other round of free shooting foor you

some thing like this


EEEEE EEEEE
EEEEE EEEEE
EEEEE EEEEE

WWWWW

If you are just out of that 1 inch they cant wheel around you. So they prob have to chare it kill it and then over run 2d6 That should slow them down
Specialy if you can angel your unit away from you lines.

[Malorian]

I learned in my last battle the risk of wolf riders as my blocking unit That animosity nuke was a hard pill to swallow.

Pretty sure I'm back to trolls now. Failing my rerolled stupidity is about as likely as getting nuked by animosity however it doesn't kill my own guys

[Glenn87]

Still not a bad spell to have
2 units of poisned shooters is better then 1.

Anamosity will make this list hard to play tough. Since O&G tend to break up there own battle line.

On the other hand wolfriders are gold in this sort of army just run them in front of the enemy andvance and a other round of free shooting foor you

some thing like this


EEEEE EEEEE
EEEEE EEEEE
EEEEE EEEEE

WWWWW

If you are just out of that 1 inch they cant wheel around you. So they prob have to chare it kill it and then over run 2d6 That should slow them down
Specialy if you can angel your unit away from you lines.

Does this work?
Doesn't he just charge your wolf Riders, kill them (more then likely), and overrun into your bow unit, even without giving them a stand & shoot reaction?

[DaemonsRage]

2k army lists I am thinking about, wolf chariots seem to be cheap for good impact damage output. Going to have a 3way battle vs V.C. and HE this Sunday and will prolly use this list, although I am worried about his terrorgheist, might swap in a war boss on wyvern to fight it.

General, Black Orc Warboss with Enchanted Shield, Armor of Destiny, +2 Str Ogre Sword = 255 points
Great Orc Shaman Lv 3 = 165 points
Night Goblin BSB = 55 points

x39 orc with music + standard +1h = 293 points (I put general and BSB in here)
x40 orc with music + standard +1h = 300 points

x20 Night Goblin s. bow, music + standard + x3 fanatics = 155 points
x20 Night Goblin s. bow, music + standard + x3 fanatics = 155 points

x3 wolf chariot = 150 points
x3 wolf chariot = 150 points
Orc Boar chariot = 85 points
Orc Boar chariot = 85 points


Doom Diver = 80 points
Doom Diver = 80 points


2k army I used today and beat a HE army with (but my opponent was new so doesn't count for much):

General, Black Orc Warboss with Enchanted Shield, Armor of Destiny, +2Attk Sword = 255 points
Great Orc Shaman Lv 4 = 200 points
Night Goblin BSB = 55 points
Night Goblin Shaman lv 1 + Dispel scroll = 75 points
Orc Shaman lv 1 = 65

x40 orc with music + standard +1h = 300 points
x20 Night Goblin s. bow, music + standard + x3 fanatics = 155 points
x20 Night Goblin s. bow, music + standard + x3 fanatics = 155 points

x1 orc chariots = 85 points
x1 orc chariot = 85 points
x3 wolf chariots = 150 points
x20 Black Orcs with music + standard = 260 points

Doom Diver = 80 points
Doom Diver = 80 points

I feel like the Black Orcs are strangely fragile and rarely pay for themselves, and am thinking that +3D6 +3 Str5 attacks & T4 + wolf/crew attacks sounds better. I am liking the impact chariot hits b/c Orc army has low initiative and the impact hits are nice to start off combat with. I am also not a fan of Goblin Lore, although +1D6 for NG shroom is awesome and the occasional Lore Attribute is nice.

In a 3k list I am thinking about using either above list and adding a:
an Orc Warboss on Wyvern with Armor of Gork b/c the +D6 Impact Hit that synergies with Choppa +1Str is nice.
+upgrading the unit of x40 orcs to big uns
+ a giant
+ NG War boss with gw
+ 4-6 Trolls
and Black Orc unit of x20 in 3k list seems justifiable

I've also been thinking about bigger blocks of NG with spears + Netters for combat res bonus but dont have the models yet for that.

[bad dice]

Does this work?
Doesn't he just charge your wolf Riders, kill them (more then likely), and overrun into your bow unit, even without giving them a stand & shoot reaction?

It's not to prevent him form charing you unit (altough that can work 2) It's to be used a turn 2 or so to slow him down. specialy faster armies like skaven and elves who can march 10 inch are slowe by this.
1) the avarge moment if you do this is slowed down (1+2d6) compared to 10
2) If you can angle you unit he needs to wheel to get back to the propper course and that slows him down more

And yes you can also use it to stop pl form charging you. Units can charge movement +2d6 but only overrun 2d6.

Meaning that if a unit is about 10 inches away u could use your wolfriders to make a charge less likely.

[Ghremdal]

Or you could place your wolf riders 5" away from M4 infantry, and have a good chance of running away when he charges with his big unit. Then he only gets to move best out of 2d6 per turn.

To be really sneaky use two units of wolf riders. Place one 5" away from the unit and the other a couple of inches behind the first one. When he charges the first wolf rider unit, it will flee and bounce through the second. Assuming this second passes its LD, it will block the main block from reaching wolf rider unit #1. Now while he can redirect into your wolf rider unit #2 you can flee with them as well, and you will probably bounce through wolf rider unit #1. Now even if the main combat block can reach wolf rider unit #1, as per RAW they won't be able to charge against them since they are not the target of their charge, and so their charge will fail.

Its a bit cheesy though.


I played two games against the WoC player I was tabled by previously, only changing my list to include a NG shaman (instead of a common Gobbo) and a bunker of 20 NG archers. I handily won both games but I'm still unhappy (thinking about) with the following:

- the little waaagh lore doesn't seem to be doing much for my army. The poison spell helped in a crucial combat of my Big Un's against his chosen, but other then that it didn't really do much. 'Ere we go would be more effective in that situation, and the other spells would help even more. He was much better then the Gobbo on wolf though. I think I'm going to switch back to my great orc shaman.
- the lord on wyvern was great, but no one ever targeted the lord. I am thinking perhaps a bit more offensive build for him (even the armor of Gork for fun). I really liked his ability to keep the entire line together and participate in a needed combat. He also made entering forests/rivers really deadly for ranked infantry, with Waaagh he can easily (and did) break units by himself.
- the arachanrok is a big big target. It never got into combat with more then 4 wounds, and it does take some in combat. I am more pleased with its ability to take damage then to dish it out. Though it turns out that WoC are not the greatest at taking fear tests.

[bravey]

Yesterday, I had my first major win with my Orcs since I started playing Warhammer 3 years ago! I was running my typical list; Grimgor w/h 40 Blorcs, 40 Big 'Uns w/h a Blorc BSB, 80 Night Goblins with 3 GW NG Big Bosses and nets, a level 3 NG Great Shaman, and a level 2 NG shaman. I was up against a WoC army with a level 4 sorcerer lord of Tzeentch, a level 2 sorcerer lord of Tzeentch, a unit of 40 Marauders w/h flails with a BSB w/h halberd in their unit, 2 units of 5 Chaos Knights, a Hellcannon, and 3 blocks of 14 Chaos Warriors w/h Halberds, and a Warshrine.

The highlights of the game involved: my NG great shaman casting the boosted version of the Curse of Da Bad Moon. It fle right over a block of Chaos Knights and Chaos Warriors; 3 Warriors and 2 Chaos knights were killed when they failed their init. tests. Later on, I stupidly left him exposed on my left flank, and he was promptly charged down and killed by a unit of Chaos Warriors.

My Blorcs w/h Grimgor really held the day: boosted by Sneaky Stabbin' and wielding double choppas, they killed an entire unit of 5 Knights and and a unit of 40 Marauders in two rounds of combat, and only lost 12 of their own troops. Grimgor, of course, won every "Eye of the Gods" challenge.

My Night Goblins didn't do much this game, as always. The 3 BBs with Great Weapons did deal out a fair bit of punishment managing to kill 3 Knights and a Chaos Warrior champion. However, as the rank and file of the NGs only have WS 2, they didn't kill anyone, though they were throwing 40 attacks out every round.
The Big 'Uns, due to bad maneuvering on my part and good maneuvering by my opponent only killed the Sorcerer Lord, which was a surprisingly difficult task.

Final casualties were:
Orcs:
6 Big 'Uns = 42 points
20 Night Goblins = 60 points
1 NG Big Boss = 36 points
12 Blorcs = 144 points
NG Great Shaman = 140 points
Total points lost: 422

Warriors of Chaos:
40 Marauders = 200 points
8 WoC = 128 points
10 Chaos Knights = 400 points
Sorcerer Lord = ~300 points
BSB w/h Halberd = 139
Total points lost: 1167

Now, to be fair, my opponent did get some really crappy dice rolls, and if he had gotten better rolls it would have been a much closer game. Still, I cannot deny how good it feels to actually win a game!


Cheers!

~Bravey

[Vaughnilla619]

Does this work?
Doesn't he just charge your wolf Riders, kill them (more then likely), and overrun into your bow unit, even without giving them a stand & shoot reaction?

i could be wrong but i think he was talking about the wolf riders being able to become a redirection unit to slow down the enemy from getting to your main units. Being only 55 points for a unit that has movement 9, can pivot freely, can shoot, and who also can be used to dictate the movement in the game is very very nice. Say you take 3 units, if the enemy doesnt do anything about them then they will help you win the maneuverment battle. And if they do decide they need to take them out then thats more wasted shots by the opposition focusing on the wolf riders to allow the rest of your army to cut them down in shooting and moving your core units in place for nasty counter charges.

i would love to use trolls as redirection units as you could have 4 of them running around doing the same thing for about the same points BUT they cant shoot and most importantly, they suffer from their crappy stupidity

i think if you can fit the points for the wolf riders then most certainly do so

[Urgat]

I was actually wondering about what would be the best unit to take with the poison banner:

Night goblin archers: cheap and can get nets to better protect the bsb
Goblin archers: slightly more expensive but can get 3 skulkers to protect the bsb
Goblin archers w/ shields: even more expensive but at least they have a 5+ armor and 6+ parry
Orc archers: longer range and better punch in combat
Savage archers: more attacks to take advantage of poison

All in all I think staying cheaper is better, but I may have to try it in the savage orc unit.

I honestly think it's kind of a waste to put the poison banner in a unit with good strength, as poison overides it. That's my only beef with it in my unit of common gobs: it also overrides the KB of my sneaky skewers. But ah well, I can live with that, they're more for mitigating incoming damage than actually dealing any, coz I'm never really lucky with rolls that need a definite result to work (like getting 6 on KB, or not getting 1 on nets...).
On a side note, goblins with bows and shields are more expensive than the other goblin choices, sure... they're still cheap regardless.

[Malorian]

I just finished my third game after bringing my warmachines back (4 chukka and 2 doom diver in 2250) and I have to say I'm very impressed. That third game I would have lost for sure if it were not for the warmachines.

All those monsters and super cav that have been increasing in popularity fall quickly when faced with high strength ranged attacks that ignore armor.

They may be keepers...

[snottlebocket]

I was actually wondering about what would be the best unit to take with the poison banner:

Night goblin archers: cheap and can get nets to better protect the bsb
Goblin archers: slightly more expensive but can get 3 skulkers to protect the bsb
Goblin archers w/ shields: even more expensive but at least they have a 5+ armor and 6+ parry
Orc archers: longer range and better punch in combat
Savage archers: more attacks to take advantage of poison

All in all I think staying cheaper is better, but I may have to try it in the savage orc unit.

Back when we first heard that spider riders were coming back, I really hoped forest goblin infantry would return to. They managed to justify common and night goblins by giving them different roles. Would have been pretty easy to put in forest goblins with the gimmick of having 2 hand weapons.

And boy, wouldn't that be a nice unit for a poison banner.

[Mechanium]

Hello I've been looking into switching into orks n g, mostly out of an urge to paint squigs.
How does the squig hoard rack up next to the borks?

[snottlebocket]

Hello I've been looking into switching into orks n g, mostly out of an urge to paint squigs.
How does the squig hoard rack up next to the borks?

It's not the best choice but they're alright. The hard part is affording them. They're expensive little buggers to buy and ideally you want at least 30 squigs and 20 herders.

[Death Korp]

It's not the best choice but they're alright. The hard part is affording them. They're expensive little buggers to buy and ideally you want at least 30 squigs and 20 herders.

The £££ expense is an annoying part of it, but they add some flavour to the army. They do hit hard however (as I've found with my Vampires), so they aren't a bad unit.

I've been looking at doing either an Orc and Goblin list or an Empire list for a while now, to add some flavour to my more 'Evil' fantasy armies (Warriors of Chaos and Vampire Counts). Looking through the book, they have some nice choices compared to the last book. My dad uses the Grimgor's Immortals Block to great use against my armies, and Grimgor himself is a bit of a nutcase.

When I look at alot of O&G armies, I see large blocks of Savage Orc Big 'Uns and Black Orcs, but not much else really. Is there other ways to play with the Orcs and Goblins competatively without having to rely on these 2 units (even though they are fantastic)?