8th Edition Orc & Goblin Armybook Tactics

[Okuto]

Damn thats big....I only run 30.....even at 4k I only run 40.....with lots of fillers(don't use the regular savages for mine, I think drunk orcs make fine savage orc stand-ins)

Do get some vallina trolls, even one is a nice addition to the army

[Shimmergloom]

Savages with Shrunken will survive better than orcs, however since they garner more attention, they die almost as fast.

So I take 30+ even in 2500pts. I started at 34 big'un 2 choppa savages and have crept the number up to 37. If I were willing to drop something, I would up the number to 39 + shaman to make an even 40 in the unit.

As for people who despise the big units, greenskins die so fast that you need the big units. It's incredibly unfair for people who play armies elite armies to say that 40 of their troops is equal to 40 orcs.

Cause here's what I've found. It's way too easy to render units of 30 orcs or 50 goblins as combat ineffective, while units of 30 warriors or saurus can soak up the attacks cause their saves are so much better.

Go check out my battle reports in this forum. I have a game vs 2 units of 18 warriors and I have to throw everything but the kitchen sink at them just to get 1 unit wiped out, while the 2nd one takes out my savages + orcs + bsb.

So it just really irks me to see that in Europe or in some circles there's now a idea going around to limit unit size to an arbitrary number as if all units are created equal.

[Malorian]

Europe is silly.

They figure that 40 warriors of chaos is the same as 40 orcs, but then again that's because to equal the points the orcs are chalk full of characters.

ETC = character spam.

[Jind_Singh]

On Magic...Go Big or Go Small

It is difficult to establish which Waaagh lore is better, they are both pretty evenly balanced. My overall preference though, by far, are spells from the Little Waaagh - but that's because of my overall play style.

Little Waaagh is a very supportive set of spells, we have ranged attacks, great buffs, and a handy signature spell. Even the lore attribute is effective.

Combined with a Night Goblin Shaman...now we're cooking! The Night Goblin Shaman is one of the few casters left in the game that can spam spells on a single die - sure it's risky but then playing with Orcs & Goblins are a risk anyway!

Sneaky Stabbin':Granting a unit the ability to re-roll to hit/wound when flanking is just massive, it's actually the only spell that brings back significance to flanking an enemy, and even lowly goblins with this spell on them become powerhouses in their own right.
Vindictive Glare:For it's casting value this is a superb spell! There is NOTHING wrong with 2D6 or 3D6 str 3 hits - that's a pump wagon for Morks sake! It's great at whittling down T3 troops, especially High/Dark/Wood Elves - bring them on!
Gift of the Spider God:Current favorites are putting the poison spell on units already with poison to make them more effective (or to grant a normal unit poison) as this is a great way to deal with the new high toughness Tomb King constructs.
Itchy Nuisance:DEADLY! Either use it to slow down a unit you don't like (Chaos Knights anyone?) or use it to drop the initiative stat of a unit you're about to Bad Moon to death!
Gork'll fix it:And fix it he does! Now I don't have to worry about units with killing blow for e.g. or parry saves as the enemy is re-rolling their sixes. It's a solid spell, not to be overlooked, as it stacks the odds of winning combat in our favor - which is never a bad thing - and against the scary units like Tomb Guard, it'll make a mockery of them.
Night Shroud:Perhaps the only spell I can't find a decent use for, it's OK but it's not great, but even so it CAN come in handy from time to time - especially when facing an enemy gun line - more times than not though this is the spell I will substitute out.
Curse of the Bad Moon:OK, well this is a fantastic spell! Deadly! Had a Shaman on a magic carpet in a game once, he flew around the Dwarf battle line and kept casting this spell and must have destroyed about 1/3 of the Dwarf army, if not even half of it, it was amazing!

In contrast the Big Waaagh also has some great spells but you need to be mindful of the spells application as an overall shorter spell range means it'll often be turn 2 before the Shaman comes into his own.

But don't knock the Big Waaagh - if I run Savage Orcs it's a must - having a great Shaman with shrunken head means I want to get him into combat - with Fists of Gork! +4 str, + 3 attacks (assume that we have more Orcs in combat than fleeing for the strength bonus), he's a monster in combat! Ere we go can be unleashed to then make all orcs re-roll to hit (which is always huge), your looking at some good times then.

Even some of the other spells are still great but you have to just be mindful of their range and when the ideal situation comes up to use them - which is why some people don't do as well with Big Waaagh as you need to keep your finger on the game pulse and concentrate all the way through a game to take advantage of the spells in Big Waaagh.

Characters

Once again we have been given a wealth of characters to choose from - infact it's funny how just our character selection alone rivals some other armies ENTIRE list (for numbers).

All I'll add on characters is:

1) Define a specific role for your character -with bosses coming in as cheap as 30pts it's easy to indulge ourselves and grab a boat load of characters for our army! So define what characters you need BEFORE selecting any! Sounds confusing? Not really - my personal rule of thumb is my units are only as good as the characters that lead them (to either lend LD or add combat res via combat). With the exception of Black Orcs any unit I take is always led by a character. OK - this won't include my fast cavalry or throw away Night Goblin archer screens, but each and every combat unit will go to war led by a boss or two.

2) Keep it simple: Warboss/Great Shaman/BSB is the essential core, anything on top of this is a bonus - remember - boyz before toyz - i.e. we don't need to be spending half out points on characters!

3) Defensive or offensive? Is the character there to stay alive (General) or be a nutter in combat? Either way look at the unit the character is going in, what's that unit's purpose? If it's a combat unit then make sure your character will complement that, but always, always, give your general a ward save! Luckily the Savage Orc Shaman is great for this as he'll grant an additional plus one to a ward save which is great! But it's also a double edged gift as once he dies those characters won't be looking so hot!

Core Units

Orc Boyz:OK, this poor fellows are getting bad press thanks to their points increase, repacking of the models, and availability of Savage Orcs in plastic - but do not under-estimate the significance of these lads! They are still a solid staple to our battle lines!

50 Orc Big Uns, full command, shields is only 485 points AND we can add a magic banner! That is ONE HUNDRED POINTS CHEAPER than their Savage Orc counterparts (120pts if we also include Big Stabbas).

Orc Boyz fulfill one crucial role - THEY HOLD THE LINE! With a 5+/6++ save they can help hold the line, they won't take too many casualties, and they are still Orcs - T4, choppa rule - don't mess with these bad boyz!

Depending on the army list I'm using, the humble Orc Boy has a place OVER their Savage Cousins as Savage Orcs, by default, are used in a much more offensive manor - and a lot of the times I don't want to be committed to such a brutal straight forward battle plan.

Ideal unit size is MINIMUM 40, ideally 50, even at a 100 they are still good!

Horde or steadfast...steadfast all the way! I don't see the value in hording them as much as I like Steadfast - remember, these units are there to hold the line!

Arrer Boyz:Anyone show me what is bad with 40 Arrer Boyz, full command, at a mere 310 points please? Especially if I want a battle plan that is not aggressive? They are cheap for what they do and are still Orc Boyz in combat - so not to taken lightly.
Unit size is ideal at 20+.


Savage Orcs:It doesn't take a genius to see that these Boyz are our newest and shiniest toyz! Excellent points cost associated with them now, the Big Uns option is affordable, and the equipment cost is just darling! They fulfill the role of shock troops admirably - you can't go wrong with these ladz!

In terms of equipment I either take additional choppas or bows - I will not bother with shields (waste of time, they can't even parry), or spears.
Savage Orc bows seem strange but hear me out on this one - use them as you would arrer boyz, but then when they get into combat unleash the savage orc! Only archer unit that works just as well in combat as it does by shooting!

Unit size of 30 is bare minimum, 40 is fine, 50 is ideal. Horde formation is ok for these units, Big Un option is always welcome as they become horrific in combat then - but don't forget...NO MAGIC BANNERS ALLOWED COMPARED TO NORMAL ORC BIG UNS! So choose wisely!

Common Goblins

Thankfully common gobbos are now at least viable again! I prefer units that are 6-7 wide, bows & shields for equipment, full command, 3 skulkers. They then become EXCELLENT bunker units for weak Gobbo BSBs with magic banners and shamans!

Observe - a unit 7 wide has both a BSB with the spider banner and my gobbo warboss (armour of destiny, great axe). They are charged by/charge enemy -right away the Skulkers come out - now you can't displace any of the 3 command models, so I then send 2 common gobbos to the back. But I still need to displace either the Gobbo Warboss or the weak BSB - so guess who is forced into the 2nd rank!

This unit is a gift from the Green Gods! With the poisoned shooting they can quickly bring down high toughness monsters/constructs ESPECIALLY WHEN BOOSTED WITH MAGIC!!! And in combat they have a decent 5+/6++ save so they are durable (for Gobbos anyway) and with 7 ranks they will be steadfast more often than not.

Goblin Wolf Riders

Now here is were my opinion differs from others on Warseer - I personally don't see the point in Wolf Riders - sure they are cheap and fast, but they also come with nothing - so add shields and spears to them, they are just 1pt cheaper than spider riders, don't have special rules like spider riders, and flee just as fast as spider riders!

Sure they have that 4+ save for being mounted, shields, light armour, so can effectively become medium cavalry units, but for 4pts more you can get basic boar boyz who also have a 4+ save but in addition to 5 str 4 attacks (choppas) they also have 5 strength 5 boars!.

And spiders have initiative four over the wolves initiate 3 - and they are poisoned!

So you can see were my personal preference lies IF I take fast cavalry units.

Night Goblins

They got massive boosts in this edition - sure the netters upgrade is more expensive, but it's worth every single point! And we can take spears for free! So now a unit of 100 Night Goblins with spears, full command, netters, 1 fanatic is now just 400pts were as before it would have been 480pts! And for 400pts that's a lot of Goblins no? 41 attacks potentially if someone charges them, 31 if they charge! Flank an enemy with this unit and cast the basic gobbo spell on them to make them armour piercing, re-roll both to hit and wound....savage!

Always take AT least 50 for combat units, 70-100 is better, for throw away units do as you will - but don't forget - the enemy only has to beat you by 100pts so don't throw too many units away!

Spider Riders

Still, by far, a superior choice of fast cavalry compared to Wolf Riders - even more so now as we can add the special character, Snagla Grobspit, to make the unit cause fear, ambush, and are granted a bonus attack when they charge!!

General Core Advice

Always aim to take AT LEAST two solid combat units in your core if you intend to take a combat unit from specials/rares or otherwise take 3 solid combat units in a 2000pt list.

Units need to be AT LEAST 40 strong for Orcs, 50 for Goblins, anything less and you lose - as our battlelines, more than any other army, has to endure a beating before we finally smash the enemy apart! Ranks always trumps steadfast in my eyes, any day of the week, as it's about toughing it out to the final turns before the enemy caves in!

Special Choices

Black Orcs

These have always been a good choice, now they are a little bit better having gotten cheaper with ITP thrown in, but don't overlook something important...they are still expensive! A unit of 30 still sets you back a staggering 425pts - so they don't come cheap!

And that's only 30 models!

But they are deadly! Reliable (no animosity), hurty (strength 4 base with a wide range of choppas on their personage), and wicked looking - Black Orcs got a lot going for them. Something people take for granted, or overlook, is that they also have easy access to magic banners! Not just one unit per army, but all Black Orc units have access to magic banners - two that leap to mind are the standard of discipline or eternal flame! Leadership 9 Black Orcs and an Orc Warboss is now Leadership TEN!

Personal preference is for leadership as they can now operate by themselves on extreme flanks - far from the inspiring presence of my general, and contrary to my own beliefs, Black Orcs are one of the few units I like to horde with!

Orc Boar Boyz

Tricky unit - while it's true that Cavalry as a whole became significantly weaker in 9th ed, it's undeniable that there is still a crucial role to be played by them - they are not 'a waste of space' as many players think.

So to begin, Boar Boyz are not that bad - a simple, basic unit of 5 is a mere 80 points - that's nothing for 5 str 4, 5 str 5 attacks when you think about it!

A Boar Chariot does 2-7 str 5 hits, 2 str 5, and then 2 str 4 - total of 4-9 str 5 hits with 2 str 4 (11 attacks maximum) for 5pts more.

What do you do with such units? Well pin down the enemy with your infantry blocks and then hit their flanks to stack up combat res! Your still and Orc, so T4, but you come basic with a 4+ save! Add shields and the unit jumps up in price to 90 but at least it's a 3+ save, and then you can go all out.

Another, often overlooked, fact is that you can access to magic banners...

Why is this profound? Because Cavalry units make EXCELLENT MONSTER HUNTERS! Cavalry can't be stomped/thunder stomped, and add in a flaming banner, shields, and spears, and you'll see them be able to take on monsters and even beat them!

Personal preference is I have to take a boar boyz unit it's going to be normal Boar Boyz over Savages simply because I like the better save.

Savage Orc Boar Boyz

Additional choppas all the way for these mad men! For a mere 100pts you'll throw out a lot of attacks but their one weakness is their armour save - sure you have a 6+ ward but that's not that much!

Either way Boar Boyz are more optional than a requirement in any Greenskin list, but by no means are they an obsolete choice - there are plenty of viable ways in which they can be used, and are amazing models to boot!

Boar Chariot

Take one, try to take two - this is a staple of any mixed Orcs Goblins army - T5, str 5, 4+ save, there is everything to like and nothing to hate! Great at adding combat rest, great at launching at infantry Mage bunker units so you can direct all your attacks onto the squishy magician! Ok you'll lose combat but who cares? Run 3D6 and take the highest roll to (hopefully) out run the enemy!

Wolf Chariots

Thank Mork for 50pt chariots is all I can say! They also come standard with bows - which is often overlooked as being valuable, but it is! 3 shots per chariot - soon adds up over the course of a game!

While I can take them in units, for the most part I only use 2-4 per army so I try to keep them as individual units if I can.

Wolf Chariots are also a staple of any Greenskin army as for a mere 50pts you get a lot of bang for your buck!!

Using Chariots

I've seen a lot of people play chariots in a lot of ways - some like to load a flank with them, some use them as a screen to cover the advance of their army, me - I like to use them as threats!

I will deploy my chariots in between my infantry units, but kept slightly behind the leading edge of the units. This will accomplish:

1) Safety - it's hard to charge my chariots as typically you can't fit into the gaps between the infantry units
2) Threat - come too close to my advancing battleline and I will charge you with my chariots! Keep away from me...well that's great as it gives me the freedom to close on you!
3) Stay away scouts/fast cavalry units! You heard me - who is going to advance a screen of useless scouts/cavalry knowing my chariots will smash them apart!
4) Combat res - I can now duel charge my infantry AND my chariots to stack up juicy combat res OR allow my infantry to be charged as I know I can just charge next turn with the chariots!

So all in all Chariots are splendid units - almost a must have in any Greenskin army (actually make it a must have!)

Spear Chukkas

Always take 2 per army, maybe even 4, but always 2 - enough said! For their silly low points cost you have 2 high strength shots with no armour save allowed and multiple wounds!

Small model footprint means they are easy to deploy, and they come in handy!

Night Goblin Squig Hoppers

They took a lot of flak when 8th ed came out, and then more flak with the release of the new book - to heck with that, they are still great! I fully endorse and support squig hoppers because:

1) They are random movers - NO CHARGE REACTION
2) 360 degree charge arc - still awesome
3) They can re-roll their movement distance with the addition of a nice Big Boss on Gigantic Squig!
4) They are now Calvary - OK so big deal, 6+ save...woo hoo....the rider gets a measly attack but it means the enemy hits back on WS2, and support attacks are not so good...

But people - they are now Calvary - meaning immunity to being stomped and thunder stomped! They are still strength 5 with 2 attacks - these guys still have a vital role in today's gaming World and 144 pts gets me 5 hoppers, 1 Big Boss, light armour/shield, gigantic Squig - not bad for what they do!

Place them on extreme flanks and use them to flank enemy units, take on enemy flankers (or slow them down), I even charged the Tomb Kings Heirotitan and held it up for like 3-4 turns of combat!

Use them as a screen to grant hard cover to units behind them - their uses are endless!

Squig Herds

Were always good, now got better! No change in points but freedom to take more Squigs than before is great. I always try to horde these units if I can - 30 squigs and 10 herders is a mere 270pts of 40 str 5 attacks at WS4!

OUCH! And being ITP means they are great on flanks away from the Generals inspiring presence!

Snotlings

PASS, NEXT QUESTION PLEASE Yes, they are that bad! They sound ok, they have some uses, but at 30pts a base there is no room for these poor fellas - sorry boyz, if you had stayed at 20pts a base I'd still take you!

Trolls

What's wrong with 35pt Trolls? Nothing! Take as many as you want, minimum 6 I would say to have a decent unit, 8 is ideal - 24 strength 5 attacks with stomps - YEAH!!! A mere 280pts!

But that unit of 8 also effectively allows you to replace a core combat unit - so then you'd need just 2 decent core combat units with your trolls.

Some people prefer using single Trolls or 2 trolls as speed bumps - each to their own - in my own lists I prefer the sheer volume of attacks, getting them stuck in, and then clawing/vomiting their way to victory!

Goes without saying they need to be babysat so they tend to be close to my Warboss!

Interesting fact is that 18 Trolls, 6 wide, 3 deep, is horde - and is only 630pts...54 strength 5 attacks with stomps!

[Jind_Singh]

Rare units

Rock Lobber

Some swear by them - I don't - I have no place for lobbas in my army - true that units under the hole are affected at a mighty strength 9 with D6 wounds, but to be honest they miss as often as they hit, and the rest of the template is a measly strength 3 - So for their points I'd rather take Doom Divers or 2 Chukkas.

And if you do decide on Lobbas than take them in pairs to make them effective.

Doom Divers

A very reliable war machine, if artillery is your thing, well priced, and does a lot of damage - if you can only take one or the other, always take a doom diver over a lobba any day.

The nice thing about Doom Divers is they don't really need to be bought in pairs.

War machines in general

Yes, a lot of people say that 8th Ed is a time of War-machines - but honestly they are not all that - sure we can get 2 chukkas, doom diver, lobba for just 235pts - but I've been taking nothing but 2 chukkas and have yet to be let down!

8th ed is a brawlers edition - it plays MUCH faster than any edition of Warhammer and units can find themselves in combat as early as Turn 1 (rare) but Turn 2 sees combat, Turn 3 sees fully committed battle lines most of the time!

So there is a limited time of shooting with our machines before they become redundant. They can also misfire and destroy themselves which gives away easy points, and while we can buy bullies to add wounds to the machines, at 10pts a pop it's an expensive upgrade!

Pump Wagons

An absolute joy - and danger to any Greenskin general! A joy as for their points they are darling now - extra speed, stand and shoot, unbreakable (and unstable), they are a decent damage unit - ANY Elf Player rightly fears them for their 2D6 str4 impact hits and make it a number 1 priority to destroy them as fast as they can!

But the danger lies in their amazing upgrades - it's very easy to overspend points on these crazy chariots - so a good rule of thumb is please stick to just one upgrade (if that!) per Wagon please!

In fact flappas is about the only one I take as standard just because I like flying them over woods/rivers and what not!

In terms of game use - they either operate as lone wolves on the flanks or I stick them between my combat units and advance with the army - their job is to attract as much enemy missile fire as possible that would otherwise be hurting my combat units, and to generally die as fast and as amusingly as possible!

Arachnarok Spider

They broke all the rules when they made this! Amazing model, amazing rules - it's the must have in any list and it's not hard to see why!

First off upgrades - I don't! To heck with the flinger and the shrine! Sure the Shrine is nice - but only for large games were I have the luxury of mounting a Shaman Lord on a Spider! The flinger is no good as it can't be fired if the spider marches, and if the spider doesn't march we're wasting valuable time - and exposing the spider to enemy spells/shooting!

But the spider is a sheer joy for many, many reason!

1) Character killer - you got it! The sheer number of attacks, venom surge, means that this bad boy is truly gifted in killing large numbers of characters as quickly as it can!

2) Monster hunter - much for the same reasons as above - who cares if your toughness 8? I'll poison you to death - so long as your not a Steam Tank!

3) Unit killer - 8 attacks, 8 crew attacks, thunderstomp, 4+ save - you can see why it doesn't take this bad boy long to destroy enemy units - and being so fast (strider rule) it's easy to flank an enemy, in which case I'll make it re-roll misses/to wound with armour piercing! OR increase it's poisoned ability!

4) Speedy - very speedy! Can crawl over things, loves forests, it's a great unit to move in on the enemy - on the flanks


But keep it in range of the general/BSB as it's only ld6!!

Arachnarok Spider is truly one of the wonders of our book - it's won me more games than anything else I own from our Army Book!

Mangler Squigs

WOW! These are great - but don't expect them to EVER reach an enemy alive as the enemy will go to all lengths to kill them before they can! For this reason alone they are great as they will allow the rest of your army some breathing space before the Manglers die!

Something I did recently with them was I deployed them BEHIND my lines and bounced them from left to right during my turns.

I then advanced my army forwards and started engaging in combat, as this happened I'd bounce the manglers diagonally from left to right, so keeping close to the rear of my army.

Then when the time came I sent them forwards...into the rear of my units locked in combat, bounced all the way through both my unit and the enemy unit and landed on the other side of the battle line!

Yeah I did 2D6 hits on my units - but who cares? Not me?! But the High Elf did - I munched a whole bunch of his warriors before combat started - and to make it worse it really threw him off as now he had Manglers in the rear of his army - going wild!!!

Stone & River Trolls

Still amazing! For just 10pts more these variants are great - equally so! River is good as anytime an enemy has less chance of hitting me, the better! But stone comes in handy just for their 5+ ward save vs magic missiles and 5+ save! Sadly I don't get to use either type much as my allowance normally goes towards the Spider and a Giant - but anytime I can include these guys - I DO!

Giant

The much maligned and under-rated Giant - what nonsense! By far one of our superior rare choices - and even better he's now 5pts cheaper - they made a good unit CHEAPER!

And if your that way inclined you can add warpaint for 20pts - doesn't do much but really funny when it does!

So why my love for Giants? Because why not?!

1) Their random attacks, for the most part, are deadly
2) Thunderstomp
3) Small footprint so easy to deploy
4) Even in death they can kill
5) Leadership 10 with stubborn - a great flanking unit as he don't care for Warboss leadership anyway!
6) GREAT at killing Steam Tanks, Tomb King constructs, chariots of any type

The giant is just wonderful! Don't see how he's anything but great, the entire gaming community across the world could line up at my house and slap me with a wet fish all day long - the Giant is amazing!!!

General tactics

So as you see with so many decent units to choose from, our Army Book as a whole is solid. And add to this some decent tactics and your onto a winner. A well played Orcs & Goblins army will beat most armies with ease, some with effort, and 1 or 2 with luck ***Dark Elf buggers***

But regardless of your army list build our main strengths are:

1) Synergy - our army, more than any, completely relies on units helping each other out. A combination of charges from say Orc Boyz, a chariot, and then a Giant will all but crush the mightiest foe - and even mighty foes better watch out!

2) Going toe-to-toe - some of our Warboss stats/builds are downright nasty - we don't have to worry too much about enemy characters.

3) Sticking it out - with steadfast, high toughness troops (or lots of troops, or both!) we can stick it out normally to turn 6, and hope to wear down the enemy before they wear us down!

But it's not all fun and games! A true Greenskin player has to be able to:

1) Learn to accept that our army, at times, is plain mental and will let us down.

2) See rule 1


Animosity, failing leadership tests, panic, fanatics missing the enemy units but then coming back to nail you - you name it, our army will find ways to purposely lose games! Accept it and move on - all these issues mean as O & G players we have to react to changes and surprise FAST AND QUICK - else we're dead!

This is were the synergy kicks in as we can never count on one unit - we need to count on 2-3 units to do a single job - like charge that one unit of enemy! That way if one of those units is side tracked, the other 2 can go in and complete the job.

And be sneaky! Launch fanatics from the middle of your unit to ensure the enemy has to step on them, use tricky combos/spells to ensure the most out of combat, run away from charges, be bold faced and challenge everything on the board with your mighty warboss - being a Greenskin player has never been better!

[russellmoo]

Really the ETC is about players that still want to play 7th edition- and apparently find it offensive for players to field large units

The sad thing is they almost got it right- something like 50 models and 500pts would work out well-
40 models makes the horde rule almost useless for any low initiative armies as you'll rarely if ever get the full benefit from the rule as in 8th ed it is common to suffer 11+ casualties in a single round of combat-

50 models + point cap would still prevent players from relying too heavily on points denial, but still allow all armies to benefit from the full spectrum of 8th ed rules-

By the way- you take wolf riders because they are so very fast- when it comes to warmachine hunting faster=better especially when it comes to relatively equal stats in other regards-

Also, str 4 and a 4+ armor save is better than most people think- I've had my wolf riders take down chariots (T4 ones) and other small support units due to their longer charge range, and str 4-

[stashman]

Nice posting Jind_Singh !!!

[BBWags]

Are any of the war gear Options in our book worth it, most specifically the armor and weapon options? They're so expensive and I just don't see them being that great... This is the only thing I don't like about our book. I love customizing characters, and I have a great fluff background for a Black Orc Lord named Kappin Bludengutz, but how can he be unique when all I have to choose from is common items???

[stashman]

Rename the coomon items!

[Malorian]

Are any of the war gear Options in our book worth it, most specifically the armor and weapon options? They're so expensive and I just don't see them being that great... This is the only thing I don't like about our book. I love customizing characters, and I have a great fluff background for a Black Orc Lord named Kappin Bludengutz, but how can he be unique when all I have to choose from is common items???

I'm a fan of sword of bloodshed and potion of strength, and the enchanted shield is never a bad thing.

[BBWags]

Oh Mal you are awesome! I completely overlooked the sword of bloodshed with the chollas rule applying to it and the warbosses high base strength anyway... So simple yet it packs a punch! Hmmmm.

[russellmoo]

I like something similar- except- put the warboss on a boar, and give him the dawnstone, + potion of foolhardiness-

2+ re-rollable and he hits a little harder- the p of h works well with the Waaagh! ability-

Of course, Mal runs his as a Savage warboss on foot, with a shaman and the shrunken head in there- so the additional armor is not really needed in this case as he has 5++ ward

As far as competitive builds from the O&G book, you can take- Axe of stunty smashin', + 50pts of defensive gear-

I do wish the O&G book had a few 5 or 10pt fun little items in there- that and I also wish that the Battle axe of the last waaagh and armor of gork were less, even if it was just 5 pts less-

[Shimmergloom]

Originally, I thought the stunty axe would be worth it, but I just don't anymore.

For far less points you can take a great weapon which gets you the S bonus +1, which takes care of the armor piercing. You only lose the +1A and have to strike last, which you will often be doing anyway.

Otherwise, I do like just giving my warlord the sword of strength, just so he can take a shield and have points for a good ward + crown of command.

[Malorian]

The 2+ rerollable is nice on a boar, but then you need to be on a boar... and thus be joined to other cav.

It should also be noted that there are still vampires out there, and a magical weapon is sometimes good to mix in no matter what it does.

[Shimmergloom]

That was basically the only reason that I have been working the sword of strength in over a great weapon.

In a tourney last month, my orcs w/warlord + bsb got swarmed by 40+ ghouls, 5ish wraiths, some bats and a vargulf.

My mangler eventually took out the vargulf and my orcs did hold for nearly the whole game, but I could do nothing to those wraiths, because they were ethereal and eventually stacks of attacks killed my warlord and I was broken.

[Jind_Singh]

I quite like the Stunty basha - +1 str, +1 attack, and armour piercing - and on the off chance you see a Dwarf the bonus for str and attacks doubles!

I like that on my Night Goblin Warboss who also comes with armour of destiny and a normal shield - for a nice 4+/4++ save, and a decent statline for attacks. And when you do see those Dwarf players...re-roll to hit 1st round of combat!

If I run a Savage Orc Warboss I stick with the trusty battle axe of the last Waaagh and hope his 5+ ward save will keep him alive (Shaman with shrunken head).

I do miss our old weapon of choice - the one were we got +1 attack/strength for ANY character within 12" - that was solid!

[BBWags]

I think my choice of fluff is really hurting me... I love the vibe of the Black Orcs, they're just awesome. But I don't think they're special rules justify their enormous price increase over the vanilla variety, but if I want to remain true to my fluff, i have to use them...

I'm currently thinking the +3 attacks sword with talisman of endurance, enchanted shield and potion of speed, what do you think of that?

[Malorian]

Black orcs are great. They've been standard in my lists ever since 8th.


No reason for the potion of speed. Going first isn't that big of a deal, whereas with the potion of strength you can make sure do get the job done in 1 turn.

[Shimmergloom]

I think he means characters though.

And as it is now, black orc characters are not worth it over orc characters at all.

[BBWags]

Yeah, i'm sorry, i should have specified, i meant the BO characters. My fluff dictates it so I'm stuck, though when I go to the FLGS for competition I'll probably downgrade them all to get more points . . .

Such a shame. I can see them being 30-35 points more expensive, but what is it for the Lord class, like 50-60 points? Its absurd.