8th Edition Orc & Goblin Armybook Tactics

[sssk]

Well here's an interesting thought which struck me last night while stripping paint off some models (notably a couple of shamen).

With the extra mushroom dice, it's less important for night goblin shamen to have +4 to cast, and they're at a (slightly) greater risk than they were before. So I was thinking "how am I going to protect my great shaman if he wants to cast 2 or 3 small spells (with the help of mushrooms) per turn?".

The answer I came up with was to not take a great shaman at all. For the price of a level 4 great shaman with a sprinkle of magic items, you could get 4 level 1 night gobbo shamen. so what benefits and draw backs does this have?

Drawbacks: no +4 to cast/dispel. Lower chance of getting the spell(s) you want (no rolling doubles, so no choosing spells). No magic items (if you're staying strictly to the same points value as the great shaman).

Benefits: 4 seperate shamen in 4 seperate units = you'll (almost) certainly have something to do in the magic phase, one failed animosity test won't take your whole magic phase with it. Greater chance of channelling. It'll take a lot more effort for the opponent to get rid of your magic (dwellers etc can't just delete your magic in one turn). Miscasts hardly mean anything (oh well, there goes one shaman, only 3 left now....). There's much less risk if you want to throw out the curse of the bad moon at full power, just 6 dice it (plus mushroom!) and if you miscast, it's only a cheap shaman (and probably a few gobbos) who's gonna suffer. Cheap throwaway characters are great sacrificial guys for re-directing charges etc in a last ditch attempt to save an expensive unit.

There's probably a few more benefits and drawbacks I haven't thought of, but this is certainly how I'll be playing for a little while at least (until I realise it doesn't work for whatever reason). Obviously this doesn't work if you wanna use orcs, though I haven't looked at the price of orc shamen etc, so maybe you can do much the same thing there too (though without mushrooms)?

Obviously this could also work with a cannon magnet....sorry, I mean arachnarok with shaman and shrine, but having a big uber shaman defeats the point of the whole tactic really.

[madden]

Nice idea I plan on running 2 level twos(night gobbo) and an Orc shaman level 2 I'm steering clear of savages for casters as one failed ld test and of he runs due to his frenzy. I generaly run a gobbo heavy army so little waagh are good.
Here's a question should you put full command on night gobbo units (30+) ?for there cost you can get another 10 bodies any advice.

[sssk]

I'm of the opinion that anyone who can have a musician should do. +1 to rally and the quick reform are well worth it.

At the moment I stick a banner on all my infantry (ie night gobbos) for the standards scenario. I don't bother with them on any other units unless I decide to go for a big wolf rider unit sometime.

Champions are hit and miss. Personally I tend to put a champion in combat infantry, but that's it (good for clearing characters out of the way for a turn so my characters can just bash some rank and file blokes).

So in summary: musician on everyone, banner on infantry, champion if you want him.

[Leth Shyish'phak]

The other great combo I've found is casting Eadbutt on the enemy wizard/BSB, then attempting the spell you really want- they will either burn a dispel scroll, or use a lot of DD to protect their wizard/BSB (BTW Thanks Mal, forgot about the BSB i've been tageting ward save wizards whereas that BSB probably has a 2+ armor sv-)

Eadbutt only effects wizards.

Still quite good though, especially if some orcs are fighting and even better against a Sorcerer/Vampire.

[Turtleking]

I agree with sssk, I tend to take musicians on everyone. Mostly...

[Malorian]

I agree with sssk, I tend to take musicians on everyone. Mostly...

I used to because it was cheap, but no longer.

I will only be having musicians on 25mm model hordes for the possibility of the watchtower blitz (so only one unit).


Banners will be taken all over for blood and glory, only one musician as said above, and champs only very rarely.


It doesn't take long for those command upgrades to add up into another chariot, war machine, or character.

[Da GoBBo]

the araknork o cannot see as being worth its points. the flinger gives asl yes..but you can loweer initiative for the cost of a 50 point wizard, and free up your rare for pump wagons or trolls! and other than the poison attacks, i cant see it outshining a giant.
yes it moves through woods etc, but its still a support creature, like monsters should be in 8th.
200 points for a 8 wound giant , who can do alot of diffrent things ( albeit unrelaiable) or 70 more points for a spider, who is t8 and 8 wounds, a few attacks..but then you pay more points for the flinger..i cant see it being worth the points.
those points could give you 2 pump wagons, 2 spear chukkas and somthing nice like an extra troll D:

... Wow, I really want your armybook! +2W on a giant, +2T for Spidey at -20points ... oh wait, it loses a lot of those 16 attacks ... Never mind than.
More importantly, 70 points buys you 2 pump wagons, 2 spear chukka's and a Troll. I'm loving it.

Drawbacks: Lower chance of getting the spell(s) you want (no rolling doubles, so no choosing spells).

I understand this is not the case. You can't have duplicate spells in the army. If you roll a spell another shaman allready has, you must choose another freely. It's pretty sweet. Note that spells given to a shaman on the Arachnarok don't count as duplicates (they arn't rolled for). It is one of the reasons I like the Spidershrine. Spells attained due to the Loremaster perk allow you to have each spell twice (or thrice if you have two Spideyriding Shamans).

[sssk]

I understand this is not the case. You can't have duplicate spells in the army. If you roll a spell another shaman allready has, you must choose another freely

oooooh, nice. For some reason I was under the impression you re-rolled it. That makes my plan even better. Suicide level 1 with curse of the bad moon here I come.

[ihavetoomuchminis]

Well here's an interesting thought which struck me last night while stripping paint off some models (notably a couple of shamen).

With the extra mushroom dice, it's less important for night goblin shamen to have +4 to cast, and they're at a (slightly) greater risk than they were before. So I was thinking "how am I going to protect my great shaman if he wants to cast 2 or 3 small spells (with the help of mushrooms) per turn?".

The answer I came up with was to not take a great shaman at all. For the price of a level 4 great shaman with a sprinkle of magic items, you could get 4 level 1 night gobbo shamen. so what benefits and draw backs does this have?

Drawbacks: no +4 to cast/dispel. Lower chance of getting the spell(s) you want (no rolling doubles, so no choosing spells). No magic items (if you're staying strictly to the same points value as the great shaman).

Benefits: 4 seperate shamen in 4 seperate units = you'll (almost) certainly have something to do in the magic phase, one failed animosity test won't take your whole magic phase with it. Greater chance of channelling. It'll take a lot more effort for the opponent to get rid of your magic (dwellers etc can't just delete your magic in one turn). Miscasts hardly mean anything (oh well, there goes one shaman, only 3 left now....). There's much less risk if you want to throw out the curse of the bad moon at full power, just 6 dice it (plus mushroom!) and if you miscast, it's only a cheap shaman (and probably a few gobbos) who's gonna suffer. Cheap throwaway characters are great sacrificial guys for re-directing charges etc in a last ditch attempt to save an expensive unit.

There's probably a few more benefits and drawbacks I haven't thought of, but this is certainly how I'll be playing for a little while at least (until I realise it doesn't work for whatever reason). Obviously this doesn't work if you wanna use orcs, though I haven't looked at the price of orc shamen etc, so maybe you can do much the same thing there too (though without mushrooms)?

Obviously this could also work with a cannon magnet....sorry, I mean arachnarok with shaman and shrine, but having a big uber shaman defeats the point of the whole tactic really.

i always tend to run 2 level 2's instead of one level 4. In overall, it's better. If one shaman gets killed, you have another. 2 shamans are 4 wounds in 2 different targets, instead of 3 wounds in 1 target with the level 4. Broken concentracion in 1 shaman doesn't prevent the other shaman from keep on casting. And usually 2 level 2's cost the same as a level 4. With the cost of level 1 NG shamans, it's a good choice to run 4 level 1's (or 1 level 2 and 2 level 1).

You can choose spells too. You roll the spell for the first shaman. Then the second and so on. If you obtain the same spell for 2 shamans, you can choose. ^^

[Malorian]

I still push that a lvl 4 and a lvl 2 back up is the way to go.

The extra +2 to cast and to dispel can be huge in many cases, forcing your opponent to throw another dice to dispel and meaning you can throw one less.


Also if I'm going to have a front line model with the shrunken head I want him to be as tough as possible, and the T5 W3 great savage orc shaman is great for that.

[Turtleking]

Mal, what does that extra lvl 2 really give you? Unless you are just planning for if your lvl 4 bites the dust?

[Malorian]

Mal, what does that extra lvl 2 really give you? Unless you are just planning for if your lvl 4 bites the dust?

Since I plan to have the Lvl 4 be an orc, the lvl 2 night goblin gives me access to the support spells of the little waaagh.

A lot of the times he will only need to use one dice (1D6 + lvl + mushroom) and either the opponent will let it go through and I might steal it right back or he will try and be down dice for when I pump out the 'real' spells.

Obviously he is also there in cases where he fails a spell, his unit fails animosity, he has been killed, or nutralized in some other way (null stone).

In the end he isn't many points and also gives me another spot for arcane gear.

[Bifford]

Can someone explain this whole mushroom business please? (i won't have the army book till I get money for my birthday in a week's time...)

[Da GoBBo]

Sure; night goblins get high on paddo's whenever they cast a spell. This means that with each spell, they allways roll an extra dice (a mushroom dice) along with their powerdice. This extra dice does not come from the pool and does not count as a powerdice, but from their giddy mushroompouch. The number rolled with that dice counts towards the total of the casting result, even though it doesn't count as a powerdice. If you roll a 1, bad stuff happens

[Malorian]

Can someone explain this whole mushroom business please? (i won't have the army book till I get money for my birthday in a week's time...)

Every time a night goblin shaman casts a spell they MUST use a mushroom. This adds to the casting but isn't used for IF/miscast. However if you roll a 1 then on a 4+ you take a wound.

To sum up: they are awesome


Edit: Ninja'd! Or is it skulker'd!

[Da GoBBo]

Hehe, I skulker'd ye nice and swift

[Bifford]

/me is getting the NG shaman's out lol!

[selone]

No book yet but am very much liking the sound of value price normal (N)Orc heroes

[Kiras of the flame]

well mostly everything in the army is generally cheap though I wonder if it's a good Idea to have a Gobbo Great shaman on an Arachnarok? I mean sure with the spider shrine It's a lovely thing to have... but I think I'd want the spider to kill things...

[Thruster]

In 3,000pts game, I plan to use lv 3 on spidey and multiple lv1 NG shaman around it. Should dominate magic pretty good with about extra 3-4 PD or DD every turn.