8th Edition Orc & Goblin Armybook Tactics

[Avian]

Not when they get shot to death early on.

[Urgat]

No, but it's sad that the Orcs and Goblins army has basic Orcs and basic Goblins that are worse than any of the comparable units AND stuck with models that are both more than a decade old and quite expensive.

Call me cynical if you will, but my guess is that they'll go down in points in 9th ed, when the new book is released with new models for common gobs and orcs This time around, GW wanted to sell big spiders and savage orcs

[sssk]

Call me cynical if you will

You're cynical!

...as am I...

[Rogzor87]

Yes, he will.

Against any block infantry, the Giant will suffer unsupported. Ogres are a particular pain for Giant, as you found out, as they are in units but are big enough to negate the best attacks that a giant has against massed infantry. If you'd been able to pin them with some gobbos, then gotten the giant into combat, those 2d6 wounds would probably have tipped combat res in your favour.

The thing with Giants is you've got to accept that they won't always work, but they'll always be fun to use.

but those 2d6 wounds can only kill 1 model ): which would only net me like 3 combat res...... oh and he lost to a unit of 4 leadbelchers.(and ran) and got caught ):

[Malorian]

This time around, GW wanted to sell big spiders and savage orcs

This.

Good knows it got me to buy 4 boxes of savages.

Although though would have been better off coming out with a 6 troll box rather than the bog spider.

[Okuto]

A actual mangler squig would of nice too....

[BBWags]

Ok, some more novice advice, sorry for the need to have the fundamentals explained, but twin boys and a four year old have sucked my brain out and left it a pile of mush on the playroom floor...

So anyway, I've been watching a lot of Malorian's battle reports which feature hordes quite heavily and I want to put together a 2500 point list myself. Obviously I'm not looking to simply copy Mal's list, but I'm concerned about a ton of hordes. I'm thinking a horde of Orc Boy Big'uns, a horde of Black Orcs (WOW, that's alot of points!), 60-80 Night Goblins, an Arachnarok, six Trolls, a Rock Lobber and the Lords/Heroes to lead them.

My fear is that a 12" leadership bubble just can't cover the area needed. The general goes with the big'uns and the arachnarok and the trolls absolutely MUST be in that bubble, but can I survive with the other hordes, especially the Night Goblins being outside that bubble? I mean, an Orc horde is basically 12" across all on it's own.

How do you make this work? And yes, I know my list isn't perfectly streamlined, but I'm going with a particular fluff background (Black Orc general trying to unite the clans and get them in some proper order). So my question isn't about changing the list necessarily, it's about the mechanics of using hordes. Can an Orc and Goblin list work without hordes? If yes, what formation would you suggest?

[russellmoo]

The leadership problem is solved by taking a small bunker unit which sits behind your lines-

My list at 2500 is a Lvl 4 orc shaman on boar, with a bsb on boar, in a unit of boar boyz, then I run 50 big unz, 40 blorcs, some ng's and an arachnarok, maybe 2 trolls, or a chariot- not a 'ard boyz list but it's still formidable-

[KSpen]

I too play at 2.5k now and am concerned about the Ld bubble.

At two minds if I should go 3 huge units or 4 (30odd) size which which will afford me some more characters and make better point denial.

25 BO could do well on the flank but are perhaps too slow

30 SOs with bows could also do well with a Ld8 hero to shoot pesky redirectors.

[BBWags]

The leadership problem is solved by taking a small bunker unit which sits behind your lines-

My list at 2500 is a Lvl 4 orc shaman on boar, with a bsb on boar, in a unit of boar boyz, then I run 50 big unz, 40 blorcs, some ng's and an arachnarok, maybe 2 trolls, or a chariot- not a 'ard boyz list but it's still formidable-

Forgive me if I'm being dense, but how does having your general and BSB behind your lines help? Wouldn't that actually move your bubble slightly back and constrict things even more? Your boars don't make them large targets, right, so the bubble doesn't go up to 18".

And at any rate, I think this is where my fluff hurts me. I'm not content to just go with a level 4 as my general. I have Black Orc Warboss Kappin Bludengutz for that and he would of course lead from the front lines lest some other orc gain more respect/glory from the battles.

[Avian]

Either:
1) Take a max of four big, expensive units, or
2) Go in waves.

[amysrevenge]

Forgive me if I'm being dense, but how does having your general and BSB behind your lines help? Wouldn't that actually move your bubble slightly back and constrict things even more? Your boars don't make them large targets, right, so the bubble doesn't go up to 18".

In a small bunker behind the line, you can reach the bubble out to both flanks more evenly/consistently (and even move in a direction you need to). In the front lines, even if you're in the middle unit, you have a harder time reaching one flank or the other as your movements are constrained by the fights you get in.

[cluzoe]

Litle coming back to ORC Boys problem.

Yesterday I was playing with horde of 50 orcs with shields.
Unfortunately 11 Saurus warriors was able to survive my Chopa Turn (with little help of my crapy rolls) and in the next turns with a little help of Slan and Lore of Live who start resurrecting them (I hate this lore:|) he start winning.

It was my last game playing them as regular Orcs.

Instead of 50 regular Orcs with shield I can have 40 BigUns Orcs with Extra weapon.
I have only 21 SO so I will give them a try.
40 orcs BigUns with double chopa with Razor banner looks pretty effective
40 WS4 S5 (S4 in second turn)-1ASv isn’t so bad and they are one troll cheaper (35pts) then 40 SO with banner and champion.

[Malorian]

Leave the razor banner at home. You are already -2 to the armor save in the first round of combat and that's the most you typically see.

I'd rather take the flaming banner for regen and buildings, plus it's cheaper.

[Goldenwolf]

Measure the units distance. You can usually put the general and BSB on one side of a unit, and still hit the closest unit on the other side, AND get 10" on the side they are on.

For the Blorcs, put their hero w/Crown of command on them on a flank. No bsb sucks, but you can also take a banner to help them if needed, like +1 leadership to make them a 9 or 10 depending on their hero.

[Avian]

That might work fine in deployment, but during games, units frequently become more spread out due to terrain and the position of enemy units. I prefer a slightly larger margin than that.

[Oogie boogie boss]

Just run forward and hit 'em. You don't need to worry about leadership if they're all dead.

[cluzoe]

Leave the razor banner at home. You are already -2 to the armor save in the first round of combat and that's the most you typically see.

I'd rather take the flaming banner for regen and buildings, plus it's cheaper.

Flaming banner is reserved for my BO, which is more reliable unit then BigUns.
In my opinion BigUns with Razor banner can be nasty surprise to many opponents . -3 to ASv and S5 can be very nasty. They can be very deadly to heavy armored units.
They are even somehow deadlier then BO with double chopa.

But without that banner you have points for another Troll.

[BBWags]

That might work fine in deployment, but during games, units frequently become more spread out due to terrain and the position of enemy units. I prefer a slightly larger margin than that.

So I'm basically screwed unless I take a small bunker behind? That stinks. Royally. Or do I need to simply rethink my list? The units that I have that NEED the bubble, IMO, are: trolls, arachnarok, night goblins. I plan on my general being in the Orc big'uns, so they're good, then we have the black orcs which have leadership 8... Not awesome, but not horrible, but they're also by far my most expensive unit so I don't want them to get run down cause they rolled a 9 (not all that uncommon...)

[Avian]

We can get heaps of units with Strength 5 (either first turn or all turns), but a limiting factor is their Leadership. I think balancing those factors is one of the main challenges with the list.

Have you considered the Ld banner on the Black Orcs?