Tactica: Grey Knights

[The Marshel]

Crowe is still a problem. Just run him probably, try hiding behind rhinos and terrain where possible.

I'm afraid i dont understand how crowe is a problem to the point where he must run while the rest of his army rides transports? Is it that his only form of attacking also hits your own grey knights? isnt that avoidable by just not letting any of your own minis be in base contact with him during assault? Am i missing something here?

[AdmiralVonSchneider]

I'm afraid i dont understand how crowe is a problem to the point where he must run while the rest of his army rides transports? Is it that his only form of attacking also hits your own grey knights? isnt that avoidable by just not letting any of your own minis be in base contact with him during assault? Am i missing something here?

I thought the same. If can place him propably, nothing will happen, right?

[VonManstein]

It's just you; ignoring henchmen because they are just made for taking everything out and sticking with GK you have:

Terminators - 2 psycannons.
GKSS - 2 Psycannons.
GKP - 2 Psycannons.

So any of those squads will put out 8 S7 rending shots. That's enough for everything bar the Lith or the Raider.

Problem is, that's not really long range. You'll get kited by certain fast armies or, even worse, Nightshield Deldar.

Also S5 weapons, krak grenades and s10 thunderhammers.

Even more shortranged.

So no, you probably want some kind of longer ranged weaponry.

I'm afraid i dont understand how crowe is a problem to the point where he must run while the rest of his army rides transports? Is it that his only form of attacking also hits your own grey knights? isnt that avoidable by just not letting any of your own minis be in base contact with him during assault? Am i missing something here?

He's not an independant character.


And no, probably no tourneys will allow unlimited henchman and I guess most people wouldn't play against that in friendlies either. So it doesn't really matter I'm afraid even if it would be RAW correct. (and really, who wants to play with 12 or so Razorbacks? )

[Therion]

If your going to abuse the codex before the errata the shenanigans at least make a legal list and add your 2 compulsory troop choices since your unlimited henchmen don't use a FOC slot.

Incorrect. Even if you don't 'take up a slot' you still count towards the minimum two troops requirements. Just take a look at the codex and what's written there and you'll understand.

[Killswitch<>]

Errrr..no your wrong. If it doesn't take a slot, it doesnt count towards minimum troops. This is a well known fact :S

[AdmiralVonSchneider]

Errrr..no your wrong. If it doesn't take a slot, it doesnt count towards minimum troops. This is a well known fact :S

I totally agree. You are right.

[Therion]

Errrr..no your wrong. If it doesn't take a slot, it doesnt count towards minimum troops. This is a well known fact :S

Well known fact based on what? There aren't even many mentions of the word 'slot' in the rules -- A word that people here use all the time.

Only two rules relevant:

A) In standard missions you need to have 2x troops. The rules call them 'choices from that section of your army list'.

= There is no mention of slots. The rule does not say you have to have 'used up two of your six slots'.

B) Coteaz makes Henchmen troops. Henchmen therefore become choices from the troops section of the army list instead of elites. Coteaz removes the restriction that the maximum amount of Henchmen is limited by the amount of Inquisitors in the army. Henchmen (now this is what the rules say) 'do not use up a force organisation slot'.

When you take Coteaz and eight units of Acolytes, you have eight units of troops, two of which were compulsory and six optional.

[dariakus]

So the Rifleman dreads look like decent long range transport busters. Doubt I'd spend the points for the Venerable versions, as they're not *that* much better. We don't seem to have anything to deal with AV14 long range, though. And honestly I'm not sure how much AV14 you're going to run into that absolutely has to be dealt with at range.

I guess the only real option you've got at that point is trios of Jokaeros in Chimeras. I was considering running Coteaz with some melta-warriors in Chimeras, but now I'm thinking two Chimeras with 3x Jokaero each. No melta-warriors. Backed up by 2-3 Rifleman dreads with psybolts. I guess you could run up to 5x Jokaero per Chimera and have them all fire lascannons every turn, but that's getting very pricey. 230 points for an AV12/10/10 shell sporting 5 BS3 Lascannons. Drop it to 3 Jokaero and you're down to 160. I think that's a pretty reasonable number.

Then a second wing that's more alpha strikey. Something in Stormravens, perhaps, or interceptor squads, with a nice peppering of Psycannons all around.

[2841981]

therion if you came to my club and tried to pull that you would be laughed out and we are a bunch of competitive tourney players. i mean come on... anybody with half a brain cell can clearly see its just an oversight that needs faq-ing

Anyway lets start talking tactics again before this thread fills up with spam

So from my limited knowledge of the book it looks like your HQ choice is going to decide the way your army is selected

so first lets look at the crowe/purifer list

Making these guys scoring seems pretty cool but i cant see what the best way of outfitting them is : /

theres the obvious 10 man squad w/ 4 psycannons plus various combat weapons with a razorback and then combat squading them so you have a combat unit with the transport and a shooting unit.
The huge flaw i see here is that psycannons are only 24" now and i dont see an expensive 5 man squad lasting long when theyll be in range of so much small arms fire.

so im not sure. Im starting to think that taking psycannons in purifiers is a bad idea. i think a better idea would be a 10 man squad kitted for close combat in a rhino maybe with some incinerators

what are your thoughts on the best way to equip purifiers in a crowe list?

and what do you think is the best way to get psycannons into a grey knight list? purgation squads are the obvious option but theres alot of competition in the heavy support slots.
on another note are they even that good now that theyve lost the 36" range?

[OneMeanDuck]

I just hope people who want to abuse this rule buy a buttload of models and then once they FAQ it these people have a ton of wasted models!!!

Anyways on to GK tactics.

Are Psycannons enough anti tank. I looked through the codex last night and decided I wanted to make an all infantry army that I tried to do with Thouasand sons but failed...

Right now for 2k points it looks like this

Grey Knight Grand Master (Makes some things scoring for objecitve games)

5x Palidens

10x GK 2x Psycannons
10x GK 2x Psycannons

10x GK Interceptors 2x Psycannons
10x GK Interceptors 2x Psycannons

5x GK Purgatory 4x Psycannons
5x GK Purgatory 4x Psycannons

Comes out to 1850 exactly I belive so that leaves me with 150pts of upgrades. IE Paliden Apothicary and some weapon upgrades... Daemonhammers maybe for added Anti Tank

So thats 16pyscannons and maybe another 2 on the pallies... 64 7st rending shots vs tanks if I do not move.





The other Army Idea
Ok this army is for fun only but looks hella cool.

3x 10man GK Interceptors 2xpyscannons
3x Dreadknights BigSword thingy, Teleporter and maybe a gun
about 1530ish points. Run 2 small Troop sqauds, Grand Master

First turn eveything that can moves 30inches and starts to wreck havoc! Just looks damn fun, may not be the best way to go.

[EldarExarch]

Incorrect. Even if you don't 'take up a slot' you still count towards the minimum two troops requirements. Just take a look at the codex and what's written there and you'll understand.

This is incorrect. In every codex there is a section which details out the amy list. In this section it lists five different unit sections.

HQ / Troop / Elite / Fast Attack / and Heavy Support

In every codex I own these are shown as shaded boxes, some light grey, some dark grey. In every codex the dark grey boxes are compulsary, which means they have to be filled in order to create a legal list.

Now there are some units out there that do not fill these boxes (slots as they are commonly refered to). These units do not count towards the minimum required units to form a legal list. There are plenty of examples in many of the other codex.

One example is an IG Priest. He counts as an HQ but does not take up a "slot" in the force organization chart. Therefore he does not count toward the minimum HQ requirements for a legal list.

Also by your reasoning a dedicated transport for a troop choice would fill the minimum requirements for your troop selections.

This is clearly not the case as it is defined in black and white on page 67 of the BRB.

[Volandum]

Do you own the Black Templars codex then?

[Dux]

In my opinion, standard GK Strike Squads toting Psycannons will be one of the most viable builds, whether they take the interceptor route, or mounted in rhinos.

In small games I'll be running

Brotherhood Champion
5* Purifiers with halberds, Razorback
10* GKSS with 2*Psycannon, Justicar with hammer, Rhino
10* GKSS with 2*Psycannon, Justicar with hammer, Rhino
5* Purgator with 4*Psycannon

If im right that should be somewhere near 1k.

For bigger games the Purgator will be 10 strong with teleport homer, with razor/rhino. The Brotherhood Champion will be replaced with an ibrarian and a squad of Terminators.
That shoulg get me around 1.5k.

That should be a good base to build a effective army on.


I'm not sure about Interceptors yet. With incinerator they could be a good way to get some anticover.

[EldarExarch]

Yes I do.

The Emperor's Champion to which you are refering is the only exception to this rule, and as it had to be FAQ'd to stop all of the arguements.

I'd say unless there is specific permission otherwise (40k is a permissive rules set) that they (the henchmen units) while becoming troops choices for all intents and purposes (ie. able to take and hold objectives) don't fill the compulsary two troop choices for a legal list.

[the gribbly]

For those who want to keep arguing FoC semantics please do so in the rules section. This thread is for GK tactics and you are wasting space with your clutter.
Moving on,

what are your thoughts on the best way to equip purifiers in a crowe list?

IMO the best way to equip scoring purifiers is probably going to be one of these:
-10 purifiers, 4 psycannons, 5 halberds, razorback tllc. This build gives you scoring devs that can fight and brings some ranged AT with fortitude protection. Downside is its clocks in at nearly 400 pts. This unit would be good as a 1-2 of in a purewing list. Those combat squads can also go nicely with bolstering techmarines + orbital strike relays.

-5 to 7 purifiers, 2 psycannons, 3-5 halberds, rhino. This unit is very points efficient for what it can do and is more spammable than the first option, so could be good as a 3+ in a purewing list.

While a mix of these two builds will most likely prove optimal I really like the second option with 6 purifiers and 4 halberds. At 212 pts this unit is relatively cheap for a scoring unit of this caliber.

For either build I would avoid any further weapon upgrades other than possibly a single daemonhammer to keep these units semi-cheap and efficient.

When discussing purifiers in a non 'purewing' list I think a unit of 7+ with halberds, a daemonhammer and max psycannons in a rhino is the way to go.

what do you think is the best way to get psycannons into a grey knight list? purgation squads are the obvious option but theres alot of competition in the heavy support slots.
on another note are they even that good now that theyve lost the 36" range?

The best way to include psycannons is going to depend on what your list is built around. Purifiers seem the obvious and most efficient choice. If not then purgation squads are probably the next best option.

Speaking of purgation squads I think that yes, they will still have a place, just not 2-3 units like what would have resulted had gw left the range at 36". Astral aim is potentially godlike and 36" is unreasonably good for the psycannon. Combine those and you get a broken unit. I am actually happy they made this change.
Unfortunately 24" range also puts them within hood range so many games their astral aim is going to be nerfed, at least until my vindicare has a chance to take out a psyker or two .


We all know purifiers are the s**t, but I would like to see some discussion on interceptors. These guys seem very very good and will most likely become a staple of my lists. Lets see what these guys can do:

In addition to last turn objective taking their shunt ability allows psycannons and S5 stormbolters to hit side/rear armour almost at will, and S5 stormbolters at 1 pt/shot are an amazing value.

Jump packs means you will be doing the assaulting most of the time so they actually hit just as hard as purifiers on the receiving end (potentially 20 S5 I6 pw attacks). Jump packs and shunt move also provide a nice range boost to the psycannon as well. Lastly warp quake can become a real pain when used with combat squaded jump troops and shunt.
Any other thoughts on these guys?

[OneMeanDuck]

Grey knight jump infantry! that can be scoring with a master!.... I love the intercepterors even more so then purifiers. I am planning on runnin at least 20. add a couple of support dreadknights with teleporters and your golden.

[Xandros]

Even more shortranged.

It's antitank so it's relevant. Deep strike and personal teleporters makes it effective.

[Gwyidion]

I think the interceptors are going to be a staple of my lists. GM for scoring, they're going to be mobile, shooty, good enough in assault to take on most anything, able to avoid hordes.... Yeah, way good.

[the gribbly]

I agree OMD and I plan on running at least 10 interceptors, maybe as much as 20. Rather than I GM though I want some inquisitorial flavor so a few henchmen in chimeras will fill out the troops slots nicely. Besides scoring is overrated anyway (ducks flying objects) and FA has literally no competition for choices.

Thoughts on techmarines? It seems with either a s10 ap1 lance blast or up to 3 s6 ap4 pie plates a turn that a couple of these guys could seriously plug some holes for AT or anti-horde. Give them blind grenades (defensive) and rad/psychotroke grenades (-1 T or random nasty effect) and put them with purgators out of sight in a bolstered ruin...ugh. I think I will finally field techmarines again.

[AdmiralVonSchneider]

In most of the lists I do not see any Dread Knights. Even Cybots are prefered. Are they no good? My first impression was a very good one. Any thoughts on them?