Grey Knights with Space Marines

[Mattyt84]

Hi, I'm fairly new 2 Warhammer and I'm having trouble working some of the rules concerning different Army mixes, I also live in a small town with no shops that sell or play Warhammer so I'm limited on how much I can learn from watching people play. I have seen that in the blood angles list on the games workshop sight you can get SM Terminators, and SM Combat Squads, and so on. But on the Grey Knights section you can only get SM Dreadnoughts and some SM tanks. Would that mean that I couldn't use SM out of my AoBR set with a Grey Knight army? Also where can I find more information concerning these kind of rules? Like mixing Chaos SM and Chaos Demons. Or Grey Knights, Blood angles, and Space Wolves. It seems the rule book covers the game rules like rolling and moving, but not so much with the armies.

[chaosmoron]

Several armies use the same plastic kits to form their units. A Space marine terminator squad might be different gameplay wise from a Blood angels terminator squad but they use the same plastic kit, and this is the one listed in the website.

I think the only model from AOBR that can be used as-is in a Grey knights army is the dreadnought. All of the other models would need some kind of conversion to make the models represent the rules.

When you have decided on what army you want to play, you really should get the codex for that army that describes the army's rules in depth.

The current codexes do not allow you to mix units between different codexes. This was possible with some old codexes and the current Witchhunter codex, but that one will most likely be replaced fairly soon.

[Overlord Krycis]

The models in AoBR are pretty much incompatible with the soon to be released Grey Knights (apart from maybe the dreadnought).

For the actual in-depth stuff on different armies (not to mention all the rules for them) is found in that army's relevant codex...something I would highly recommend you get next as it will clear up more on what an army can be composed of (for example, Chaos Daemon units may NOT be taken in a Chaos Space Marine army etc.).

[DoctorTom]

As mentioned, you would probably have to do some conversion work to the regular Marines from AoBR to look more like Grey Knights, but if money's tight and you have the AOBR miniatures then it might be more cost efficient to buy some bits to convert them. There's a difference between bolters and storm bolters, so you might want to change up the guns a bit. That's not to mention the nemesis weapons that the grey knights have (though those you could cobble up from some sword bits painted fancy colors). You'll have more of a problem wanting to represent special weapons.

That said, I wouldn't think there'd be that much of a problem in a friendly game if you used the AoBR models, as long as all regular bolters counted as storm bolters, and that you're not trying to count one type of weapon on your minis as two different types of weapons for the rules (no "this heavy bolter is a psycannon, while this one is an incinerator"). In a friendly game they might want you to eventually switch over to the GK minis, or to convert some regular Marine minis so that they more accurately represent the Grey Knights (you might find it easier to convert regular Marine figures rather than AOBR Marine figures, and it would still probably be cheaper then spending $33 for only 5 Grey Knights.)

That said, there would be no way barring major conversion work to use AOBR Marines as Grey Knights in a tournament. (It would be far easier to use a set of converted Dwarf Ironbreakers to count as Grey Knights )

As for mixing different armies, there's two ways to do it (both will probably be high point value games):

1) Play a game with multiple detachments. Each detachment would essentially be its own separate army, with its own 1 HQ and 2 troop choice minimum. You could take a detachment of grey knights and a detachment of Space Marines. You may already see this happening in some sames with more than 2 players where there's more than one player on a side; it's a de facto multiple detachment game.

2) Apocalypse is a rules expansion for large games, which will let you put mix multiple armies' units together on your side. It doesn't follow the force organization chart the way the regular 40k game does. You'll also see larger vehicles with multiple structure points (Baneblades, Ork Stompas, etc) that wouldn't normally be able to be taken in a normal game. There's also datasheets available for different formations, which describe taking certain specified units that (with an indicated extra point cost for the formation) will give you some added benefits beyond what you would normally have just by taking the units separately.

That said, you should probably stay with the regular 40k rules until you're comfortable with them before trying Apocalypse. You're better off knowing what all the rules are first so you can know what to disregard in Apoc rather than jumping into Apoc early and getting confused going back to regular 40k games about what rules apply to which version of the game.

[qballony]

Anyone know an easy way to convert sm to gk...what actually needs to be changed?

[Mr_Rose]

You need to change two-handed boltguns to wrist-mounted storm bolsters across the board, equip every model with a close combat weapon of some sort, and fancy-up the armour significantly. The grey knight kits share essentially zero components* with the regular marine kits, except maybe their backpacks.

*Yes, they are all power armoured but it's not like with the regular chapter variants where you can get away with a sculpted pas and a colour change, and maybe the odd fancy breastplate.

[crigstar]

i am in this same sorta situation, i have a small grey knights army and want to include a SM predator or a blood angles baal predator (the new one) but i dont know and cant find any rules anywere to see if this is allowed or possible.

[hazmiter]

Threadomancy.
But ill bite.
Apocalypse matches, or you can use them as detachment.
Detatchment rules is 1hq 2 troops plus added stuff.
Opponent can at discretion make a detatchment too.

[Lothlanathorian]

What book are the detachment rules in?

As mentioned, the core rules for 40K don't allow for mixing units from multiple codices into one army, however, larger games using Apocalypse rules are designed less with strict rules in mind and more with narrative and a 'play whatever you've got' mindset.

[Lord Damocles]

What book are the detachment rules in?

Main Rulebook, pg.87.

They're less rules, and more 'Meh, whatever - sort it out with your opponant' suggestions though.

[Overlord Krycis]

Main Rulebook, pg.87.

They're less rules, and more 'Meh, whatever - sort it out with your opponant' suggestions though.

My kinda game then...

[Lothlanathorian]

Main Rulebook, pg.87.

They're less rules, and more 'Meh, whatever - sort it out with your opponant' suggestions though.

Wow. Never even noticed that and this is the first time it's ever come up in the Rules Forums (as far as I have seen).

[hazmiter]

Yeah its one of those unsung passages in the rulebook... 25% rules 75% fluff and pictures.
They need a section on it, so that way its defined, and accessable even for those of us who just use the index (which doesn't help much)....

[don_mondo]

Well, one reason they show it as an example is because the codex itself might change the force org chart by only allowing one Fast Attack but allowing four Heavy Support (old codex, once upon a time). See page 81 of the GK codex for their Force org rules. So yes, there are rules for the force org chart, they just might vary from codex to codex, hence the main rulebook not setting them in stone.