Ratmen list

[mattjgilbert]

A Skaven..oops, I mean Ratmen list for KoW.

C&C welcome.

UPDATE 24/03/2011: list 0.2 with playtest feedback and comments from here included
UPDATE 31/03/2011: list 0.3 with playtest feedback and comments from here included
UPDATE 23/09/2011: list 1.0 with playtest feedback and update to KoW v2.0 rules and formatting
UPDATE 03/10/2011: list 1.1 added brute mount for Warchief and the Deathroller
UPDATE 14/04/2012: list 1.2 changes to weapon teams, hell cannon and clawshots
UPDATE 09/09/2012: list 1.3 updated some units and adjusted points in line with v3 army lists
UPDATE 12/05/2013: list 1.4 updated after feedback

[AlexHolker]

Slaves should only get 10/20 attacks, not 15/30. Either that, or they should only hit on a 6+.

Shock Troops should not be a match for the finest fighters with the finest arms and armour the Dwarven empire can provide. I'd reduce them to 4+ Defence.

Skaven War machines should not have 5+ armour.

The Warlock on Sorcerer's Bell should not have the Individual rule: it is neither maneuverable nor small enough to receive that benefit.

[mattjgilbert]

copy paste error on the bell for Individual... well spotted.

I'll look at the others too after this evenings game.

Cheers

[mattjgilbert]

The game was good but the elves won (elven missile fire is awesome). The rats did well in combat on the whole but the list needs amending. The Strength in Numbers rule works well.

I'll do a 0.2 soon with our thoughts after the game and also the points mentioned above + anything else anyone thinks of.

[Nationality]

Nerve value seems pretty high... for rats. Ghouls also take a nerve hit which seem appropriate for them. I dunno. Strength in numbers rule is interesting... it might be cool to give all Horde units the "Inspiring" rule instead... heheh.

[Wolflord Havoc]

Stupid pointy eared ponces...I won all the main combats but got shot to bits and there was nowt I could do about it..Okay agreed on most of the above - the bell was a copy paste error as Matt says

After the game we discussed the list

Weapon teams should have a save consistant with normal rats so 4+ I still think the Cannon should be higher though

Shock Troops reduced in ability and cost

MUTANT RAT-FIEND given headstrong, 3D6 attacks and 2D6 movement but increased in cost

Cannot recall what else for now - will have to wait till the new list comes out

[mattjgilbert]

list updated to 0.2

Are the slaves OK? Have I catered for everything with the random movement rule description?

Is the list better now?

[Wolflord Havoc]

Thats better Matt

Should there be a blighted troop option which can be armed with 'blighted spheres' (Thrown peircing 2) or 'blighted flails' (Crushing Strength 2) but each to hit roll of a 1 inflicts a hit on the unit........oh damn it.....rules creep.......

[mistermaster]

Great adaptation mattjgilbert.

I´ve played 2 games. First with the v0.1 and second with v0.2

1. I´d change -1Ne for Flame thrower and Rotary cannon. They are smaller than normal warmachines and can move faster so they should be weaker.

2. Shock troops. I´d add Crush (1) to justify their 2-handed weapons.

3. "Pestilent" special rule change. It´s a bit too much. I´d make it the opposite as Elite. Force the attacking unit a re-roll to hit/wound.

4. Hell Cannon more resilient due to his new size. At least Ne3 or De6

5. Rifle Team change. Unit size Troop5/Regiment10. "Pavise" special rule. +1De vs ranged attacks.

Great work with the armylist.

[mattjgilbert]

cool - thanks for the feedback mistermaster. Wolflord Havoc and I will play another game tomorrow night using the same Elf list and a new rat list from the 0.2 version. Then we'll review your good ideas and what comes out tomorrows game and do a 0.3 list.

[mattjgilbert]

We think the blighted ones work OK. We intended them as a tarpit and they are able to do that with the way they affect the enemy. Perhaps only -1 to Melee and not to shooting too?

The mutant needs to be 3D6 movement we feel or he can play no part in the game. 3D6 and a points bump to 220?

Not sure what to do with the weapon teams. They need to stay in the War machine slot in the list but need to be able to move fast and also not have to stand and shoot with a restricted fire arc - it makes them hard to position. We though about giving them the Individual rule (even though they are war machines). What do you think?

[mattjgilbert]

List updated to 0.3

Please let me know what you think and the results of any games/play testing.

[Mercury Warpstone]

Is there any suggestions for using poison wind mortar models? or warlord on bonebreaker models? Im not as fussed with the warlord on bonebreaker, but it might be nice to use it in a game

[mattjgilbert]

I'm open to ideas for them. Baragash is also doing a ratman list so he might have some ideas too.

[Mercury Warpstone]

How about something like this? I think it is simple enough and doesnt add any extra new rules or anything. just gives the option for the Island of Blood figures I have lol


Pestilent Mortar
Cost: 60 PTS
Type : War Engine
Sp 6
Me -
Ra 5+
De 4+
At 10
Ne 1
Special: Range 12"-24”. Indirect Fire. Piercing (1). Individual. May move at the double.

[Baragash]

I've included all the War Machines in mine, but I've having trouble deciding how I feel about the Weapons Teams (haven't done those). I toyed with making Jezzails a War Machine for a while, but the unit notation was a bit fiddly so they're a unit.

I've got to do PV and Nerve to finish it.

[orcsbain]

Originally Posted by orcsbain
Hi Guys, I played a game yesterday with the 3.0 ratmen list here and had a thought.
Going on gut feeling (as that seems to be the best way of designing these stats D)

It seems to me that the rifle teams need changing, to me they hit too easily (4+) but also that they should be armour peircing (1).

I dont think this would alter the points as they would hit less often (change them to 5+) but be more likely to wound when they do, due to peircing rule.

Other than that both my self and my opponent thought the list was good and well balanced, though I did think it could also do with some giant rat unit stats, (as I have 3 units of 30 and a unit of 20) also should the ratmen pack leader be inspiring (but only to brutes and giant rats when there are stats for them).

Loving the brutes too, as they are unuseable in WFB but nice and effective in KOW.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by mattjgilbert
Sounds good - can you reply to the ratman thread itself and then I'll modify the list.

Done
nothing like a bit of threadomancy
ttfn

[mattjgilbert]

I'd also like to see what Baragash has done with his list. You got yours ready to show yet mate?

[idfreak66]

I like this list overall, but a lot of it seems a little over-complicated for kings of war. The "strength in numbers" rule in particular. I have personally adjusted this in our games for a +1 to nerve for every 2 units within 6". It's a little uncommon, at least in smaller games, for this modifier to be more than +2 (4 units within 6"), and it makes the calculation a lot easier at a glance, and makes it so you don't need to have 40 of everything just to be viable.

[mattjgilbert]

Fair enough, I can see that. I'll probably make that adjustment when I next update the list. Thanks