Ratmen list

[Baragash]

Matt's probably been influenced by the GW list, which has about 3 times as many rules in it as are actually needed

@Matt: I've been too busy to work on any of my houserule/homebrew stuff, and that doesn't look like changing in the next few weeks

[mattjgilbert]

Well I'm off on holiday so I'll not be doing mine for a couple of weeks either

I'll look at simplifying what I can.

[Teh_K42]

I played my first two games of Kings of War yesterday, my undead against a friend's ratmen. Great fun, and much faster than Warhammer Fantasy.

This Army list looks great to me, but I have a small quibble. I'm inclined to agree with Orcsbane- making ratmen rifle teams Ra 5+ and giving them Piercing (1) would better represent how Jazzails work in fantasy.

[mattjgilbert]

OK I need to update the list anyway to bring it in line with the 2nd edition rules. I'll try and update all my lists this weekend.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad it worked for you

[mattjgilbert]

List updated!

Incorporates feedback from here plus is updated for the new KoW v2.0 rules and list format.

Enjoy (and tell me where I put typos and mistakes!)

[idfreak66]

Very nicely done with the update! I like the new format, and I like the new rules you added. I think this is getting closer to a finished list. Do you have something to indicate what the equivalent GW unit is? It is mostly obvious, but I can't figure out what the Doomwheel is...

[mattjgilbert]

I've not done the Doomwheel... that'll be why you can't find it

Any ideas?

[idfreak66]

Huh, I was basically using the Daemonspawn as the doomwheel in my games. Lots of nerve, has a ranged attack, lots of crushing strength, and the stats seemed to fit. I thought the Mutant Rat-fiend was the HPA... what was the Daemon spawn supposed to be?

The stats on it look basically perfect for what I had in mind though. It isnt crazy fast (big, clunky wheel), but it can shoot until it gets to you, and when it does, it hits hard.

[mattjgilbert]

Correct on the HPA

The Daemonspawn was the vermin lord

Wolflord Havoc doesn't have any doomwheels in his army so I hadn't done the rules for them for our games. I'll dig out the WHFB army book and propose some KoW rules for it.

[idfreak66]

That would be fantastic. My girlfriend has 3 doomwheels. I think the thing that would be cool to bring over from the doomwheel is just it's speed and power. I'm not that big of a fan of the fact that it breaks half the time it is hit, or that it can careen into your own guys. Do any other races have chariots? Maybe follow those as far as speed goes, adding a zap!.

I haven't seen the new rulebook yet. I wonder if there are any rules that would fit the random nature of the doomwheel.

[Baragash]

In terms of the way KoW mechanics/stats work isn't a Doomwheel basically going to be similar to a HPA but possibly trading 1D6 of attacks for Zap (n)?

[Mercury Warpstone]

no points cost for the warlord mounted on bonebreaker? it would just be a case of add x for speed, maybe add a couple of attacks and add a few points (80 -100) for the special mount?

[Mercury Warpstone]

Maybe something like this would work?
War Chief on Brute H/M
Unit Size Sp Me Ra De At Ne Pts
1 6 3+ - 5+ 8 14/16 220
Special: Inspiring; Crushing Strength (1) Headstrong.

[mattjgilbert]

I'll look at adding the brute mount option too.

[mattjgilbert]

1.1 - added brute mount and the deathroller

[darkPrince010]

Do you count non-solid units for the Strength in Numbers? Just looking at the list without playing it yet, it seems that you might have an issue with abuse of it by fielding lots of Troop-size units to get the bonus.

For example, 3 Half-Regiments of Shock Troops would have 10 more attacks than a Shock Troop Horde, and assuming an average Nerve roll of 7 would require 4+ wounds on each Half-Regiment to Waver them instead of 14 on the Horde, for 195 points vs 230. Seems like 2 overall less Nerve is a good tradeoff for +10 attacks and 35 fewer points, along with hard-to-calculate bonuses like ability to flank-charge, multiple targets to force splitting of enemy fire, etc.

I'd strongly suggest that it apply only to Solid units (This also to avoid abuse by using a pair of Doomwheels or other war machines to bump Nerve). If you wanted to keep certain units like war machines counting towards the SiN rule, just say "This unit counts as a 'Solid' unit for the Strength in Numbers rule" in their entry. Again, I haven't played this list or Skaven before, so this may reflect Skaven playstyle well, but it just seems like MSU could very easily abuse the heck out of the Strength in Numbers rule...

[idfreak66]

It was originally a solid unit or so, but when I was playtesting with my lady friend, any attempt to spam nerve was effectively ruined by having so many people in that tight of a formation. You could get what, maybe 6 units in an area and move them comfortably? That's +3 to nerve for each of the units there. That would work well, but you are so tightly packed, that you lose a lot of the benefit of the increased nerve by giving the opponent a better maneuverability.

[darkPrince010]

Okay. I wasn't sure how it'd work on the actual tabletop, so if it forces a tightly packed unit that's more vulnerable, I guess you're still getting a horde overall anyways

Are there any issues with points costs or effectiveness? I'm planning on running my first intro game tonight with this and mattjgilbert's Lizardmen army, and I wanted to be sure the point costs weren't too low/high or anything.

[orcsbain]

Something I am supprised no body has mentioned is the giant rat ommission from the list. Any body have any ideas for the stats?

Id like to be able to use tham as I have 80 painted, I suppose they would have simmillar stats to the basic clannies but meby with extra attacks to represent them climbing over each other to attack, but perhaps with slightly lower nerve?

Also what about wolf rats? as I have a few of those too (on a cav size base).

and on a different but connected note anybody using wolves in their undead army (not lycanthropes but normal or undead wolves) I thought this was a bit of an ommission on mantics behalf as most WFB players would have them in their VC armys.

ttfn

[mattjgilbert]

I'll take a look and add them.