Ratmen list

[mattjgilbert]

Are there any issues with points costs or effectiveness? I'm planning on running my first intro game tonight with this and mattjgilbert's Lizardmen army, and I wanted to be sure the point costs weren't too low/high or anything.

Both lists are play-tested: the rat list extensively so. Both should be pretty balanced.

[Baragash]

I'll take a look and add them.

See of you agree with my suggestions for mastiffs/pussies/undead rats units on the Fantaics forum, then you just need to change the special rules

[idfreak66]

Holy monkey stinks, I just looked at the hell cannon, and it seems to me to be like ridiculously powerful compared to the other war machines in 2.0 of Kings of war. I know there is a big hubbub about how terrible the other war machines are, but this effectively makes the hell cannon the most powerful war machine bar none. Most of the others give 2 attacks, Blast (d6), or 1 attack, blast (2d6) this is 8 attacks blast D6? Am I reading this wrong? Even if the other rules are unbalanced, we should probably make the fan lists equal to them. I have suggested int he past to get rid of the blast rule altogether. Just making this an 8 attack war machine makes sense to me.

Thoughts?

[mattjgilbert]

It's blast D3 not D6.

At short range, assuming you roll to wound OK, you probably do about 5 damage per turn. But then it costs a lot more than other warmachines.

If I was to change anything it would be to drop to piercing (1) or the attacks to 6 but the points would get adjusted too.

[Cultistapazzo]

hi to all!

A friend of mine want to play with matt's ratmen, I read the list and I have 3 question:

1) Clawshots (jezzail) team, 5 model make 10 attacks? I think it's an error, I believe that team make 5 attacks.

2) why demonspawn is not character [1]?

3) Strength in Numbers
Add +1 to this unit’s nerve for every 2 friendly units within 6”.
are H\M and warmachine considered for this rule? or this rule work only for infantry\large infantry units?

other questions\ideas after the first battle

see you soon

[mattjgilbert]

1) Intentional but if feedback from playtesting says otherwise it can change
2) Yes it probably should be unique
3) It was all units. Again based on playtesting feedback...

[Cultistapazzo]

thanks for reply!

about question 1):
intentional? mmmmh I don't agree. in theory, but I don't.

because:
for comparison: others team (5) of shooters don't have more than 5 att.
orc sniff, twilight kin heralds of woe for example.
only teams with two melee weapon have more than 5 att (dwarf berserk, orc morax) or cavalry (goblin Fleabag Rider Sniffs) for example.

for point cost: if I have a shooter team unit with ten att, why I have to put in play a shooter section unit with more point cost but the same att? for higher nerve stat? I don't use them in melee like others shooter units.

no, I think they work well with 5 att, but in theory and imho.
when we play with them next week we tell you more precise impressions

[mattjgilbert]

I think 10 is fine. Otherwise your chances of getting just a single hit at over half range are not great and at that point they become not worth it.

The alternative is that the number of attacks is reduced is to skew the unit in favour of Ra over Me. In previous versions of the list they were Ra 4+.

Looking back through the suggestions I might make the switch to saying SiN comes from Solid units only. Plus there are some other suggestions to add too. It looks like I need to update the list soon.

[Baragash]

@Matt: this is an example of why I think the WP version of the statline is better

[mattjgilbert]

Well maybe, but I don't think I should attempt that radical a change

[Baragash]

In my version I have SiN from Solid units only

[mattjgilbert]

Sounds like a plan then

[Cultistapazzo]

New question:

pack leader:
in the description you write:
Pack leaders patrol the battlefield barking (squeaking?) orders and killing those who show cowardice in the face of the enemy. They also offer useful fighting support in the confusion of a melee.

but he doesn't have inspiring.

was in your mind that he have inspiring or not and pdf is correct?

thanks!

[mattjgilbert]

A Pack leader is a minor hero and shouldn't have inspiring so the PDF is correct. Being able to shout doesn't automatically make you inspiring

[mattjgilbert]

After more games, list updated to v1.2. Changes to weapon teams, hell cannon and clawshots.

[mattjgilbert]

List updated to v1.3

[zoggin-eck]

Hey guys, played my first game of Kings of War today, undead vs ratmen

Thanks to mattjgilbert and contributors for a fun list that seems in the spirit of the official lists.

As some have said, rat swarms and packs missing seemed a bit odd, but thinking about it, the slaves rules suit just fine. Basic infantry, no upgrades and not benefiting from the Pack Mentality rule looks right. I'll be using my swarm and giant rat models in mixed units.

Couple of questions/comments, though:

The weapon teams being purchased as war engines, but counting as infantry with individual make sense to me. Better maneuverability, harder to hit with missile fire, units able to do the d6 move into combat if they rout and so on all suit. Does it make them a little too survivable in combat, with enemies losing the treble attacks they'd usually get? Or is it a case of a low nerve/defense unit being easy enough to kill anyway, so it isn't an issue?

Also, is the Pestilent Mortar meant to work similar to the Flame Thrower and Rotary Cannon? That's the impression I got, having the same defense and nerve, and being only 60pts. At the moment, it's missing the extra rule, so it's a war engine like the Hell Cannon.

Also, I take it these options count as war engines when determining Pack mentality, so don't count. (Haha, I see you switch between "war engine" and "war machine" in the list, a little Warhammer hangup, like me being unable to call the Melee phase anything other than "Close Combat" )

[mattjgilbert]

Thanks for using the list. I can't answer your question until I re-read it and remember the whole thing again though

I will try and do that soon but I writing other stuff at the moment and have tons of painting to do for the Clash of Kings!

[zoggin-eck]

Ha, that's OK mate.

I might have a go at just using the fire-team rules and points from the Abyssal Dwarfs list, using the Sp. and Ne. values you used. Basically, 40pts War Engine (slightly worse breath attack) with individual special rule. Being unable to move and fire isn't an issue, as we're used to the Warhammer version not being able to do that anyway.

[Verm1s]

I've been taking a closer look at IoB bits and pieces on ebay, which made me take a closer look at this list and topic, and I like what I'm looking at. Looking forward to pulling a few rats together and give this a spin.

Couple of questions, though. I'll echo Orcsbain: any provision for giant rat packs? (Or even rat swarms?)

If they've been considered and rejected, I don't mind using them as a proxy unit; but a proxy unit of what? Disposable Slaves? (No pack mentality because they're dumb animals) Warriors - maybe with with phalanx to mimic GW's 'climbing over' rule? Blighted Ones sound doable too, if they're a tarpit unit. Any preferences?

On the topic of slaves and pack mentality, I take it they're the only ones that lose out from not having the rule? I.e. two regs of slaves are within 6" of a reg of warriors. The slaves don't get any Nv boost, but warriors get +1 Nv as normal?
For that matter, does 'excluding warmachines' mean that warmachines benefit from PM, they just can't pass it on?