Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 69

Thread: What the hell is grimdark???????

  1. #1

    Angry What the hell is grimdark???????

    Hello everyone who doesn't know I exist .

    I, SpaceTiger, am back after a long absence and will now be getting more involved in this website. But I have a question that needs answering and I hope that you guys will help me. It is a word that confuses me and despite my research in online dictionary's and tvtropes I still can't find out what it actually is; in that why do people not like grimdark or criticize it and when I ask them what is grimdark? They have no right answer as to what is grimdark. They just hate because haters hate. I have actually caught the bug and have started to use the word myself.

    What is Grimdark????

    P.S: I didn't know where to place a thread like this so I just placed it here. So, sorry if I annoy anybody.
    Last edited by SpaceTiger; 29-03-2011 at 14:29.

  2. #2

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    A Term coined by a quote from Warhammer 40,000.

    "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war."

    Or something like that.

  3. #3

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidal View Post
    A Term coined by a quote from Warhammer 40,000.

    "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war."

    Or something like that.
    That I fully understand. But everything else still confuses me .

    P.S: I have edited the OP of spelling errors, to all concerned.

  4. #4

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    This should help:
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...arkerAndEdgier

    EDIT:
    Oops, I missed in the OP that you already looked at TvTropes.
    But it really is all there.
    Last edited by Thanatos_elNyx; 29-03-2011 at 14:40.
    Lion: Hey Russ, you'll never guess what!
    Russ: Yeah, I know! Magnus is a traitor! To think that he could accuse our beloved brother Horus of turning against us. Impossible! But don't worry. I have taken care of it, Horus asked me to destroyed Prospero and I have. Magnus shouldn't be bothering us again.
    Lion: ... actually, I was going to say that Magnus was right. Horus has turned to Chaos, 7 other Legions have joined him and he has destroyed 3 Loyal Legions already!
    Russ:

  5. #5

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceTiger View Post
    That I fully understand. But everything else still confuses me .

    P.S: I have edited the OP of spelling errors, to all concerned.
    ARe you asking as to why 'Grimdark' is used to ridicule 40k?

    Well it's the defining feature of 40k, the intro quote is all about it, the imagery reflects it, and when you ridicule something it's usually by stating the obvious.

    Sometimes it's used endearingly, like when you admire your chaplain with a skull helmet and skulls on his armor, skull on his crozius and perhaps standing on a decorative skull on his base.

    Or it's used to irritate people by stating the obvious. It would be like going into a cake shop and yelling "LOL CAKES SO SWEET LOLOL U LIKE SUGAR???"
    Quote Originally Posted by philbrad2
    SgtTaters,
    I suggest you reduce the insinuations and 'rubbed' comments

  6. #6

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    Grimdark has been used as a way to define the 40k universe. It means to me, a place that is not only dark, but particularly grim as well...

    Really, its a place where there is almost no hope and everything that happens is tinged with a dark view.

    40k universe certainly fits that.

    @Thanatos: Nice Find!
    Last edited by Emeraldw; 29-03-2011 at 14:39.
    "A sword doesn't have to have a fine lineage, it just has to be sharp" ~Luca Blight, Suikoden 2
    Warmachine: Retribution of Scyrah
    http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236680

  7. #7
    Commander Avatar of the Eldar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    The Bear Flag Republic
    Posts
    777

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceTiger View Post
    Hello everyone who doesn't know I exist .
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceTiger View Post
    P.S: I have edited the OP of spelling errors, to all concerned.
    Now try again on your grammar. (Hint, use "don't")

    "Grimdark" refers to the thematic or atmospheric quality of the background material or "fluff" and how grim, nihilistic or dystopian it is. Basically, the 40K galaxy is doomed. The Imperium of Man and the races that more or less represent "order" - Eldar and Tau - are on the brink of extinction or of being overwhelmed by relentless Tyranids, unceasing waves of Orks, reemergent Necrons, etc.

    Even Imperial society itself is wracked with decay, corruption and malaise.

    The threads I've seen referencing it have seemed to voice either "Needs moar grimdark!" and "Boy, GW overdoes it on the grimdark."

    Matter of taste and what you want the 40K universe to be.
    With goodwill towards all, and malice towards none.

    Hive Fleet Kali-Ma

    Wargaming in Westeros

  8. #8

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos_elNyx View Post
    Damn, I was about to link that! Although as the original poster had apparantly searched that website already it means either they are very bad at research or already read about it and didn't get the finer points of grimdark yet.

    Grimdark is pretty well covered as above, but is also sometimes a term to mean over-the-top grittiness, as in Darker and Edgier to the power of 40,000 multiplied by genocide. The darkness and grimness is so exaggerated it becomes silly (well more silly than usual).

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Coventry, UK
    Posts
    771

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    I think there has (for as long as 40K exists) been a certain rift in the 40K-fan-community (and possibly even many of its writers) between, on one hand, those who take GrimDark rather seriously as to differentiate the 40K setting from other sci-fi works in RPGs and miniature gaming as darker and edgier (see TV-tropes-link above) and, on the other, those who always saw 40K's exaggerated take on bleak, dark, horrible & lots of skulls as tonque-in-cheek from the get go, possibly even an intended parody of common "dark and edgy" tropes so popular in the late 80s and most notably the 1990s.

    It leads to strange discussion between "GrimDark-is-serious-stuff" advocates and "GrimDark-is-hilarity-through-skulls-and-immoderation" advocates accusing each other of failing to truly get the GrimDark aspect of 40K.
    Last edited by Castigator; 29-03-2011 at 14:48.

  10. #10
    Chaplain DYoung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    300

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    Originally Posted by SpaceTiger
    Hello everyone who doesn't know I exist .

    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar of the Eldar View Post
    Now try again on your grammar. (Hint, use "don't")
    Space Tiger's grammar here is pretty much correct.

    It's 'Hello everyone that does not know that I exist.'
    Not 'Hello everyone that do not know that I exist.'

  11. #11

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar of the Eldar View Post
    Now try again on your grammar. (Hint, use "don't")
    I know I suck at grammar. Its mostly due to the fact that I don't really have a clear idea of what i write about. I just type up directly what i want to say from what words and sentences I can gather from my mind. Thanks, for alerting me to my idiocy .

    Anyway, i believe I understand somewhat. I already know that "grimdark" classifies a setting that has no hope and everything goes wrong and sucks just because it makes the setting over-the-top dark. But my problem is that people try and use grimdark to criticize settings as unrealistic and it would never happen. It irritates me, how do they know? Are they some kind of prophet? Plus the setting was designed so that it sucks so how can they say it is unrealistic. In the universe where WH40k exists as a real galaxy(an example I'm using) the laws of physics say its possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malagate View Post
    Damn, I was about to link that! Although as the original poster had apparantly searched that website already it means either they are very bad at research or already read about it and didn't get the finer points of grimdark yet.

    Grimdark is pretty well covered as above, but is also sometimes a term to mean over-the-top grittiness, as in Darker and Edgier to the power of 40,000 multiplied by genocide. The darkness and grimness is so exaggerated it becomes silly (well more silly than usual).
    I get it now. But I feel that the real grimdark of 40k comes from how the people of the IOM are treated like crap, not related to cults or anything psyker, just because. The genocide adds to the setting and if handled correctly would make 40k shine. To me what is silly about 40k's grimdark is not its content. But the art style if you will, people of the galaxy look like they're from the middle ages.

  12. #12
    Chapter Master shadowhawk2008's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Battle-barge Spear of Lycaeus of the Sons of Corax 2nd Company
    Posts
    3,883

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    The history of the Lamenters is certainly grimdark
    My 40k/Writing/Review blog - Sons of Corax Full list of my novel, comics, and audio drama reviews - Reviews. New review on 11/8/2013 is for Death of Antagonis by David Annandale.

    My current fiction projects - Dharmayoddha, an Indian-mythology inspired urban fantasy set in Mumbai, India; Hammer of Shadows - a Euro-medieval epic fantasy with knights, gladiators and ancient relics; Cloak of Secrecy - a Norse-mythology inspired space opera.

  13. #13

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    I think that we should list what we feel is pointless "Grimdark" and what is just right for the WH40k setting, what do you think? If you guys agree, either post it here where we can debate it or we can create a new thread.

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Coventry, UK
    Posts
    771

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceTiger View Post
    I think that we should list what we feel is pointless "Grimdark" and what is just right for the WH40k setting, what do you think? If you guys agree, either post it here where we can debate it or we can create a new thread.
    As said above, I think there are at least two "right" GrimDarks.

    a) GrimDark as truly grim, dark, hopelessly bleak nihilism.

    b) GrimDark as comically over-the-top with lots random, implausible numbers as to "outnumber" any sense or reason by sheer hilarity and lots of added skulls on everything and anything.

  15. #15

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    Quote Originally Posted by Castigator View Post
    b) GrimDark as comically over-the-top with lots random, implausible numbers as to "outnumber" any sense or reason by sheer hilarity and lots of added skulls on everything and anything.
    As, Avatar of the Eldar, stated "Grimdark" is basically the atmospheric quality of the WH40k setting and how nihilistic it is.

    What do you think constitutes hilarious grimdark then?

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Coventry, UK
    Posts
    771

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceTiger View Post
    As, Avatar of the Eldar, stated "Grimdark" is basically the atmospheric quality of the WH40k setting and how nihilistic it is.

    What do you think constitutes hilarious grimdark then?
    The (possible) observation/interpretation that GrimDark in 40K was from the very beginning conceived as nihilism exaggerated to the point of being comical. GrimDark as fully intended parody by the writers of the more "seriously nihilistic" sci-fi from the 1990s.

    Or, to quote Malagate

    Quote Originally Posted by Malagate
    Grimdark is pretty well covered as above, but is also sometimes a term to mean over-the-top grittiness, as in Darker and Edgier to the power of 40,000 multiplied by genocide. The darkness and grimness is so exaggerated it becomes silly (well more silly than usual).

  17. #17

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    I understand, but I mean an actual list of any specific grimdark of 40k that is considered over-the-top? Frankly, I never looked at 40k's grimdark as something comical for the most part. I find it fascinating' the only part of 40k that ever caused me to laugh was a paragraph in the RPG books of WH40k like Dark Heresy about a star-system with populations in the millions about to erupt into a civil war over the fact that they have run out of place to store the administratums paperwork- IIRIC.
    Last edited by SpaceTiger; 29-03-2011 at 15:59.

  18. #18
    Get your custom title 'ere! Godzooky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    In the darkest nightmares of anybody who grew up in the eighties
    Posts
    1,490

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidal View Post
    A Term coined by a quote from Warhammer 40,000.

    "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war."

    Or something like that.
    That's a commonly held misconception.

    In fact, the term found its origin in The Empire Strikes Back.

    When Luke is recovering after being "Womped" on Hoth, Han Solo is quite clearly heard to remark that he looks, "strong enough to pull the ears off a grimdark."

    Hope this clears it up.

  19. #19
    Chapter Master BramGaunt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Who knows...
    Posts
    2,164

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    Godzooky, I hope you are kidding, or this might have been a really big Star Wars Quote fail. Han solo refers to a gundark

    The original tagline was "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war. For there is no peace among the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.", and I think it was made by Sigismund after the battle of the Imperial Palace during the Horus Heresy.
    We both read the rumour, day and night,
    but you read black where I read white.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scryer in the Darkness View Post
    (After someone claimed he was Phill Kelly) The real Phil Kelly would know how to spell his first name correctly.

  20. #20

    Re: What the hell is grimdark???????

    But the universe is a big place. Whatever happens, you won't be missed.

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •