Compilation of KoW Army lists and rules

[more_utopia]

“Kings of war” of Mantic is an excellent set of wargame rules. Easy, fast and ... free of costs. Realy a good set based on outstanding fantasy figs.

As wargamers, we not only like fantasy tabletops, but also historical ones. Hence the historical army lists proposed sub chapiter are more than interesting. Only I hope that they will stay KISS (Short and Simple).

Can I suppose that there is some “standard” army list? Could it be:

inf reg Sp Me Ra De At Ne

light 7 5 4 3 10 6
medium 6 4 4 10 6
heavy 5 3 5 10 6

cav reg

light 10 5 4 3 16 6
medium 9 4 4 16 6
heavy 8 3 5 16 6

Easy to memorize.

Hoping that in the future Mantic will expand their fantasy range to an historical one, so that we can benefit of officiel armylists. Meanwhile ... let's change ideas.
Cheers.

[more_utopia]

please note: no ranged attacks mentioned for medium and heavy inf/cav;
so read for these troops: speed, melee, defence, attacks and nerve.
Specials can naturally be added.

[mattjgilbert]

more_utopia - could you start a separate thread for this proposal please?

[more_utopia]

ok: goes to thread: standard reference for historical units?

[cudasquarius]

http://boardgamegeek.com/file/downlo...ef_card-v1.pdf

Dwarf Kings Hold reference card by Christopher Taylor

was not sure where best to post

Tom

[mattjgilbert]

Like it

I'll add them to the first post

Thanks

[cudasquarius]

I will be using it when running games at the Rampage Wargames Show in Dagenham free Mantic sprue for playing DKH or KOW (shameless plug over)

cheers


Tom

[Murdock129]

http://www.manticgames.com/Forum.html?Topic=874&Page=1

Just thought these may be notable lol

[mattjgilbert]

http://www.manticgames.com/Forum.html?Topic=874&Page=1

Just thought these may be notable lol

Was about to do those anyway but wanted James to OK it first

[more_utopia]

Can someone tell me how the value points of a basic regiment are determined. What is for example the impact of lowering Ra 4 and Ra 5.
Thanks.

[Baragash]

By "feel" by the designer(s)

We've been discussing a more scientific approach here:
http://www.ageofstrife.com/blog/DaBo...ules_b-35.html
http://www.ageofstrife.com/armageddo...ist-t5478.html
http://www.ageofstrife.com/blog/DaBo...cost_b-36.html

[more_utopia]

What a study! Thanks very much Baragash. Hope that you will continue it.See that you are in the first place deducting from existing lists, and than in the second place building up the points from your conclusions. Very interesting, afortiori to put together own armylist: fantasy or historical. Are you working on this? ... Looking forward.

[AlexHolker]

If it helps, I've been using the Slasher/Winged Slasher as a basis for the cost of Flying for non-Nimble units, making it a +65% modifier to the total cost to add flying (or a -40% modifier to remove flying).

[Baragash]

What a study! Thanks very much Baragash. Hope that you will continue it.See that you are in the first place deducting from existing lists, and than in the second place building up the points from your conclusions. Very interesting, afortiori to put together own armylist: fantasy or historical. Are you working on this? ... Looking forward.

Well I'm working on a Skaven list because my main opponent uses them and I don't quite like the way Matt has done his (sorry Matt!), and a TK list for myself.

[mattjgilbert]

No offense taken (*cries*). What's wrong with mine? Are you starting from scratch or modifying the one I created?

[Baragash]

Bit of both. I think it was the special rules rather than stats/points - I think there are versions of doing it that are closer to existing mechanics, that's all.

[Don_Silvarro]

While I appreciate the amount of work you have done, Baragash, I have two wee questions

What is the reason for calculating points cost on a 'per figure' basis? You basically never do anything 'per figure' in Kings of War, so this strikes me as a bit of an oddity...

Alessio himself said that he didn't use any formula for calculating stats and point values for the original armies (he mentioned that in one of the early KoW videos on Beasts of War, way back before the beta release) and strongly dislikes that approach in favour of 'gut feeling' and extensive playtesting. My first thought would therefore be that trying to hammer out a formula for KoW on the basis of the Undead/Elf lists is a bit like... um, trying to work with tools that do not exist. What's your take on it?

No offence intended, I'm toying with the idea of making an army list myself (for the new(ish) plastic Amazons by WGF), so I'm just curious about your design choices

[mattjgilbert]

When making a list I always try and work out the points based on the official lists, comparing my units to the closest match I can find. From that starting point I then tweak it based on gut feeling.

@Baragash, closer to the official mechanics is better so I'm all for doing that. However, adding the odd new rule is often good to give an army its own flavour.

[Baragash]

While I appreciate the amount of work you have done, Baragash, I have two wee questions

What is the reason for calculating points cost on a 'per figure' basis? You basically never do anything 'per figure' in Kings of War, so this strikes me as a bit of an oddity...

Alessio himself said that he didn't use any formula for calculating stats and point values for the original armies (he mentioned that in one of the early KoW videos on Beasts of War, way back before the beta release) and strongly dislikes that approach in favour of 'gut feeling' and extensive playtesting. My first thought would therefore be that trying to hammer out a formula for KoW on the basis of the Undead/Elf lists is a bit like... um, trying to work with tools that do not exist. What's your take on it?

No offence intended, I'm toying with the idea of making an army list myself (for the new(ish) plastic Amazons by WGF), so I'm just curious about your design choices

Actually, someone else did the per-figure-basis bit, I'm the other side of the conversation

I ran a linear regression against all the non-shooty regiments and then just put any new units through the formula it revealed. I haven't put my method up yet as it's spreadsheet based and I'm not completely happy with the assumptions. Having said that, I did find I had to break some of the things down to a per-figure basis as well because otherwise you accept an implicit weighting on At/Ne/Unit Size and the effects of the difference in other stats barely shows up.

I did think it was interesting that both methods came out with the same value for Ogre Bulls though.

TBH I haven't played much KoW yet, so it was also an exercise to help me really, if it was 40k or WHF I'd probably not bother (though I have done one for a limited range of WHF infantry before just to see how it compared with the actuals) and go with Alessio's view. Having said that, I don't think the obvious x2-10 pattern makes sense. The first jump increases Ne only and the second one increases Ne again and doubles At.

[more_utopia]

range weapons

I find it confusing that in the base line of some units a range factor is mentioned, while the unit in question has no range weapons mentioned (and no additional points payed).
So would it not be better to put the Ra factor between () to indicate that it is an option. Only when given points, the brackets could be removed.