Dark Elf list for KOW

[emperorpenguin]

I have written up a list for a Dark Elf army in Kings of War.

This is pretty much a straightforward conversion of the Warhammer army, for which I make no apologies as I wanted to be able to use my models in Kings of War.

I wanted to follow the convention of a simple army-wide special rule (not making one up) and as Abyssal and regular Dwarfs share a rule, it made sense to have Dark Elves as "Elite", like their kin.

Assassins are a unit upgrade, just like throwing mastiffs and infact function identically, the rule fits like a glove.

I left out a few problematic units as they were awkward to balance without more playtesting and feedback. So there are no Harpies, Dark Riders, War Hydra or Cauldron of Blood as of yet.
I also left out Executioners for now as they were too similar to Black Guard.
I'd like to have repeater crossbows but left them as crossbows for simplicity. Pistols for Corsairs would be great but until Mantic have a pistol armed unit, again simplicity wins out.

So please give the list a try and tell me what you think. Feel free to suggest your own ideas for the units I left out.

[mattjgilbert]

Was about to add the link to this thread.. when I realised you didn't add the attachment

[emperorpenguin]

I am such a muppet.......

[AlexHolker]

- Corsairs have the Crossbow special rule, but no Ranged stat.
- Witch Elf regiment should have 20 attacks, not 25.
- Cold One Knights have an inferior Melee stat to HE Knights, despite COKs riding flesh-eating dinosaurs and HE Knights riding horses. I'd give them 3+ Melee, 10/20 Attacks.

I'd like to have repeater crossbows but left them as crossbows for simplicity. Pistols for Corsairs would be great but until Mantic have a pistol armed unit, again simplicity wins out.

- Repeater could be a special rule like Phalanx, that adds 5/10 ranged attacks.

- Repeater hand crossbows would presumably be range 12, Repeater.

[emperorpenguin]

- Corsairs have the Crossbow special rule, but no Ranged stat.
- Witch Elf regiment should have 20 attacks, not 25.
- Cold One Knights have an inferior Melee stat to HE Knights, despite COKs riding flesh-eating dinosaurs and HE Knights riding horses. I'd give them 3+ Melee, 10/20 Attacks..

Like I said, I'm a muppet! The Corsairs should have Ranged 4+

The Witch Elf attacks are correct as they match the values for equivalent sized Berserker units which the Dwarfs and Abyssal Dwarfs use.

I noticed some errors in the Elf list I used as a reference. Whether I used an old version or a bad copy this is one of about 3 mistakes.
Yes they should be Melee 3+

Thanks for pointing those out, I'll correct them!

[mattjgilbert]

Spearmen... should have the Phalanx rule?
Corsairs have crossbows so need a Ranged value!

EDIT.. should have refreshed the page before replying...corsairs already spotted

[emperorpenguin]

The Spearmen do have the Phalanx rule

[mattjgilbert]

So they do.

I think I need to go to sleep....

[emperorpenguin]

I definitely need to with all my mistakes!

[Skalfgrimm]

Am I just being thick, or are corsairs exactly the same as crossbowmen, except more expensive?

Shouldn´t a regiment of shades loose the nimble special rule, equivalent to scout regiments?

Maybe you could add an option for a chariot troop (3 models)?

The death hag seems a bit cheap, considering she is essentially a much faster berserker lord and has the elite special rule.

But overall I really like the list. Assassins using the same rules as throwing mastiffs is a great idea.

The points do look appropriate enough, and fine tunig has to wait for play testing anyway.

Job´s a good´un!

[Dragonsbane]

Nice list thank you.

2 remarks

Corsairs are the same as crossbowmen but more expensive. There has to be a reason to take them instead of crossbowmen. I dont know what to do about it atm. Maybe to take the seaguard rules but make them somewhat cheaper because of shorter range on their handbow.

As Skalfgrimm mentioned the death hag is to strong for her points cost. Maybe you could up her points with 10 and lower her nerve value to 6? Still based on the berserker lord with more speed but less nerve.

[mattjgilbert]

You need to make the Corsairs different enough to the Crossbowmen to make them unit to consider as an alternative: give them something better but also worse.

So how about this:
Make their De 3+ (they are lightly armoured)
They have heavy crossbows*


*Range 18 and Piercing (1)

[emperorpenguin]

Another formatting error. I was chopping and changing and made a mess out of the Corsairs.
The Corsairs need to be fixed, either more attacks or points reduction (I forgot to give them phalanx OR reduce points for it not being in their rules)

Yes Shades Regiments shouldn't have nimble, damn copy and paste strike again!

I will add Chariot Troops, definitely

My thinking regarding the Death Hag was that she is to a Dreadlord what a Berserker Lord is to a Dwarf King.
For +1 speed, -2 defence, +3 attacks and +2 nerve they are costed the same

The exact same stats changes apply between the Dreadlord and Death Hag, so if she is too cheap then Berserker Lords are too cheap.


Regarding Corsairs at the moment I don't want to invent new weapons, so no heavy crossbows, besides the weapon should be a pistol. Their armour isn't any lighter because of the Sea Dragon cloaks.

[mattjgilbert]

OK- I've not read the DE book. My bad.

How about a breath weapon then for their ranged attack?

[Dragonsbane]

Still the question is "How are you going to fix the corsairs"?

[emperorpenguin]

How about a breath weapon then for their ranged attack?

I did consider that but at present I'll leave that to the Abyssal Dwarfs

Thanks for the template too Matt

Still the question is "How are you going to fix the corsairs"?

Someone is impatient! I have got a job and a life!

I came up with a fudge which treats the Corsairs as Seaguard. My next aim is to make them into pistol wielding shock-troops instead.

First post updated

[gaarew]

The exact same stats changes apply between the Dreadlord and Death Hag, so if she is too cheap then Berserker Lords are too cheap.

Not strictly speaking true. You need to take the base stats into account as well. A model with a high speed will benefit more from extra attacks than a slow model as it has a much greater threat range to put those attacks to use.

[emperorpenguin]

Not strictly speaking true. You need to take the base stats into account as well. A model with a high speed will benefit more from extra attacks than a slow model as it has a much greater threat range to put those attacks to use.

Berserker lords are faster than dwarf lords yet are the same points. Likewise elf spearman are faster than the identically priced ironclads. My reasoning is sound,within mantic's current lists. If there is a fault it is with mantic's points values

[AlexHolker]

Regarding Corsairs at the moment I don't want to invent new weapons, so no heavy crossbows, besides the weapon should be a pistol.

You should invent new weapons, when it is necessary. It's better than trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Add a Repeater special rule and give pistol weapons a shorter range and you've solved issues with both Dark Elves and any future not!Empire at the same time.

[mattjgilbert]

The rule of thumb I've tried to adopt when creating lists for "missing" armies is to add a maximum of 3 new special rules or weapons. I've also tried to make sure such things can then also be re-used again in other lists (rather than being army specific)... *notes the not!Empire point above *

Too many new rules can quickly mean too much complication. But the odd new one to convey something important or fill an obvious gap can only enhance the game.