Tactica: Tomb Kings 8th Edition Book

[Deff Mekz]

but I wouldn't try it against dwarf warmachines.

Neither would I, that's why they invented Sephurcal Stalkers.

[Skyros]

one attack tomb guard will fare fine against the books where the 'elite' infantry only have one attack, like dwarves and empire

And you do have a spell to give them an additional attack...can't count on it, of course.

[EdFireborn]

one attack tomb guard will fare fine against the books where the 'elite' infantry only have one attack, like dwarves and empire

And you do have a spell to give them an additional attack...can't count on it, of course.

Its a fairly reliable cast (9+) and with most people running large amounts of magic and a compulsory priest with that lore, quite likely haha.

The real value of the halberds is to chop through heavy armour units hopefully augmented by some kind of I10 spell (if only we had light... oh wait!) in addition to killing blow. 1 attack per model should more than suffice for that task.

the anti-horde will be terror causing units and constructs that can dish out a large number of painful attacks.

[The_Bureaucrat]

Skelliton horsemen aren't great at killing war machines, only two cavalry sized models may attack the warmachine crew, at weapon skill 2 and strength 3 they aren't going to do much damage, but I guess it depends on the type of crew they are fighting. They can take out goblin crews, but I wouldn't try it against dwarf warmachines.

+1 CR for charging and possibly +1 for rank and +1 standard. Also don't forget will be higher str on charge and that the horses can attack as well.
The point of war machine hunters is just to tie up the war machine, killing it is a bonus.


That said I think I'm liking stalkers more for war machine hunting. You pop out and if you get lucky you can kill a war rmachine with the gaze, if you do than you combine a charge with maybe some knights in the flank/rear and prevent the unit from combat reforming. If you don't kill the wamachine you can have a weak unit like swarms hit it (although I wish it was 1+ instead of 2+) and move your stalkers to more important targets.

[White_13oy]

Is anyone else thinking that Settras Herald and a TK with the death mask is a deadly combo for a unit? I still think Khalida doesn't belong in a list anymore, she's way too expensive for just giving bowmen 4+ and poison. I'd rather spend points on someone who is going to actually do something.

[Asymmetric]

Is anyone else thinking that Settras Herald and a TK with the death mask is a deadly combo for a unit?

I do. Hell you could even give someone the helm of discord as well to force even more leadership test's on top of terror tests, 3D6 and discard the lowest fear tests and break tests, all without any re-rolls or the generals leadership.

[Skyros]

If I can use a TK king with death mask to make those absurd LD10 blocks of skaven slaves flee in terror I am going to start a new TK army immediately.

[jtrowell]

Some people are saying that the stalker gaze attack doesn't work on warmachines.

I don't agree as I think that you're supposed to use the crew Initiative, and it seems like at least someone from GW agree too :

I love the sinister look of the Sepulchral Stalkers - there's something about that impassive bronze death mask that's faintly unnerving. They're the ultimate ambush troops as well, popping up behind the enemy lines to cause mischief. Their petrifying gaze is great at killing lone characters and war machines, not to mention heavily armoured enemy units like knights - no armour save is quite nasty when you're a Chaos Knight.

Source: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/co...?aId=16200033a

[Esco Thomson]

Some people are saying that the stalker gaze attack doesn't work on warmachines.

I don't agree as I think that you're supposed to use the crew Initiative, and it seems like at least someone from GW agree too :



Source: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/co...?aId=16200033a

I think at best the jury is out on that one.

Using GW to defend a point isn't exactly a credible testimony.

[Deff Mekz]

@ Esco; But that would be like saying we should ignore FAQ's when trouble arises.

[Esco Thomson]

@ Esco; But that would be like saying we should ignore FAQ's when trouble arises.

No, that's not like that at all...

GW taking the time to specifically address somewhat "grey" areas of the rules, and placing an official document to support them is completely different than say WD battle reports, GW Website reviews, or other comments.

[Deff Mekz]

Sorry I missunterpreted(sp) what you meant, I thought you meant GW in general.

[Esco Thomson]

Sorry I missunterpreted(sp) what you meant, I thought you meant GW in general.

No worries. For the record though, I honestly see this one going just as easy either way.

It will certainly put some appeal to them if they are allowed to use the attack on War Machines.

[Deff Mekz]

For the record though, I honestly see this one going just as easy either way.

It will certainly put some appeal to them if they are allowed to use the attack on War Machines.

I agree completley, if they can't destroy war machines though I can't really see me taking them (although if the models are as they could as look in the pics I may just have to) as they wouldn't really have much use then. Although I wonder if you could use them as mage snipers. Is it something like 15-18 S1 hits of average ignoring armour saves? It could be quite brutal.

[The_Bureaucrat]

My first reaction to this unit when I heard its point cost was it was simply to damn expensive, but recently I've been paying it a little more attention due to 2 factors.

1) The entombed beneath the sands upgrade is dirt cheap on them apparently. Now normally when we think of ambushers, EBTS users, scouts, etc we think of small harassment units off warmachine hunting, wizard sniping, taking potshots at light cavalry and such. This unit is different however.

3+ necropolis knights turning up directly behind the enemy main battleline is more than a simple annoyance, it's a serious threat to the enemys fighting blocks. No unit wants to fight necropolis knights in there rear (or flanks) while also having ranks of skeletons/tombguard advancing on there front and that situation will happen an awful lot with the EBTS rules. Being able to put down a powerful combat unit where you need it is a powerful tool.

2) The necrotect special character. For those that don't know he adds frenzy and hatred to a unit and grants constructs within 12" a 6 regen save. However he also has one more ability, 1 random construct gets re-roll failed armour saves all game. With 3+ saves and rerolls necropolis knights become extremely hard to kill with low strength attacks. Use the EBTS to pick a suitable target (say... massed ranks of high elf spearmen) and then go

I'm inclined to agree with you. People also seem to underestimate that they easily benefit the most of any construct from the +1 attack spell (assuming it benefits both rider and mount).

12 s5 posioned +9 st4 (str 5 on the charge) kb = 21 st 5 attacks on charge, 3+ armor save (possibly re-rollable) and most likey 6+ regen all for around 200 points (depending on some options)*.

*(this is all based on the rumors I've seen some of this info might not be accurate)

[Gonzoyola]

With the change to EBtS (well the change to ICfB), i think Stalkers are actually going to be a good source of warmachine hunters for us because they wont waste a turn when they ambush on, they can actually shot at something (unlike any of the other units with EBtS) and they seem to be fairly solid W3, T4, with at least a 5+AS (not sure on exact stats) they will need more than just small arms fire to prevent them from pillaging warmachines

I really want to mount a TK or TP on a warsphinx, though i know it isnt ideal, what are ppl thinking for item load out?

a Tomb King on WarSphinx with Destroyer of eternities is seeming like my new Brass Cleaver / Chariot combo, although survivability is a big concern.

[Gonzoyola]

According to the TK forums, the Death Mask costs 60% of a lord's magical item allowance, it is a bit on the steep side, so I doubt you can get much protection.

Death Mask + Fencers Blades + Dragonbane Gem. In a unit with his sworn bodyguard equipped with the Armor of Destiny perhaps?

Note that it was clarified in this post that they use Unmodified WS for MwBD, So i think fencers blades are out now.

[Gonzoyola]

I think that Chariots will be suprisingly good Hellpit killers. Equpping them with the flaming banner will mean that they can put up to 18 S4 (S5+ if in ranks) into the hellpit before it has even struck back. The resulting wave of S4 spear attacks should definatley finish the job. If you were to use them for Abom hunting, you would have to use them in ranks for them to be at their most effective however.

IIRC Godless said that on average the chariots inflict 10 IH. So at S5, that will mean 10 hits, causing 5 wounds, almost enough to kill the Abom out right!

People are bashing scorpions as useless now but are forgetting one thing. They had it coming. They were overpowered in 7th and now they've been toned down to were they should be. Scorpions will no longer be a "one man army" unit you will need to use in conjunction with other units. Tomb Kings work best if you put the enemy in a dammed if they do, dammed if they don't situation. Take this for eg;

10 Light Horsemen and one newly risen scorpion are about to pose a threat to a warmachine. The warmachine (we'll say it is a cannon for all purposes of this post) can either target the scorpion, probally killing it, saving itself from be destroyed by the Scorp and possibly other warmachines being destroyed too. However if the player destroys the scorpion, the horsemen will simply charge the cannon instead and destroy it. Did I mention those horsemen are ranked? So your oppenent could risk being flank charged on his precious battle bus unit, therefore removing steadfast from the unit. So he may decide to go for the horsemen instead leaving the Scorp unharmed. Either way for Tomb Kings, it's a win-win situation.

Deff.

Edit: Really nice analysis Esco, and thanks for starting a thread.

I don't believe you negate steadfast by charging in with 2 ranks, you only negate their rank bonus dont you?

[Gonzoyola]

Skelliton horsemen aren't great at killing war machines, only two cavalry sized models may attack the warmachine crew, at weapon skill 2 and strength 3 they aren't going to do much damage, but I guess it depends on the type of crew they are fighting. They can take out goblin crews, but I wouldn't try it against dwarf warmachines.

On the contrary, attacking a warmachine crew works as follows


The attacker (you) chooses 6 models to participate in the battle.

[jahorin]

I don't believe you negate steadfast by charging in with 2 ranks, you only negate their rank bonus dont you?

Exactly, disrupt doesn't remove steadfast. If they could errata this I think it would resolve lots of problem about 8th ed. but that's a whole other debate.