Tactica: Tomb Kings 8th Edition Book

[Jericho]

Clearly you have no interest in changing your mind. I want to be wrong. I really do.

The fact remains that you can only heal wounds in the way that RFW describes. This section gives a strict order in which heals are performed, and characters are not included in this strict order. Face it, this is for command models and rank and file troops only.

The order isn't irrelevant, nor is it optional. You play the game by the rules (all of them, not just the ones that suit you) or you're cheating, that's how this **** works.

[Asymmetric]

Clearly you have no interest in changing your mind. I want to be wrong. I really do.

The fact remains that you can only heal wounds in the way that RFW describes. This section gives a strict order in which heals are performed, and characters are not included in this strict order. Face it, this is for command models and rank and file troops only.

The order isn't irrelevant, nor is it optional. You play the game by the rules (all of them, not just the ones that suit you) or you're cheating, that's how this **** works.

Characters are multi wound rank and file when they account for 100% of the unit composition. In a unit of a character, it is the rank and file.

It's exactly the same as healing a monster.

Unless of course your actually arguing you can't heal a TK monster.

[Jericho]

I'm not convinced that they can, to be perfectly honest.

[Asymmetric]

Well then we're arguing over the defination of "rank and file". It would of helped if GW had defined it but alas they haven't.

I am taking rank and file to mean the "core" of the unit. I.e. the unit entry. In other words, all non-command troops of the unit, which are explicitly listed otherwise.

The rank and file of a unit of skeletons - is non-command skeleton warriors

The rank and file of horsemen - is non-command skeleton horsemen

The rank and file of Necropolis Knights - is non-command necropolis knights

The rank and file of a Heirotitan, is simply a heirotitan.

Likewise, the rank and file of a unit of 1 Tomb king, is simply the tomb king.

And so on.


I'm not sure what other defination can be used for "rank and file" of a unit.

[GreySeerZ]

Alright, I'm sorry I brought this up, having read through the 7 page thread on the TK forums it is clear that GW needs to FAQ this issue.

As it stands after countless debates and counter debates as to what Cruddace was thinking while he typed this up in his bath tub:

Rules as Written: Characters can leave units, becoming a rank and file unit with multiple wounds, and can receive the spell attribute healing (D3+1) (which isn't a spell as distinguished in WoC FAQ 1.3).

Rules as Intended: No healing to characters unless stated in item/spell/attribute regardless of whether they are part of a unit or a unit themselves.

No need to argue this, just realize that you will meet opponents, or you yourself, who may decide to play it one way or the other. In this case you have to decide whether your going the RaW or RaI route and agree upon it with your opponent (preferably before the game).

Other than that all we can do is wait for the GW FAQ (if one comes) and deal with it on a game by game basis. Of-course the fact that the difference greatly effects tactics means that this will probably be found in every single TK tactics thread from now until its remedied, or the end of time...

[Asymmetric]

That seems to sum up the situation we are in.

[Esco Thomson]

Just posted up a battle report to anyone interested, don't expect anything game breaking here, as it was more of a last minute type deal/nothing super fine tuned on either side of the table, and some pretty bad decisions in game by me

2500 TK vs DE, Battle of the Brothers

[Jericho]

I'm more than willing to move on and talk about something else.

For example, has anyone made a satisfying army yet built around Stalkers, Ushabti or Knights? I really like the rules for all three, but after sinking 25% into core and at least as much into Lords/Heroes it can be tricky.

[Everblight]

After using Ushabti, they really really need protection. Admittedly I only had 3 in a 1000 point battle, but they were knocked out almost instantly before they got into combat. T4 with a 5+ save is terrible. And sure they have 3 wounds each but consider the fact that a unit of 6 Ushabti would collectively have 18 wounds. You have the equivalent of a unit of 18 Empire Swordsmen at a minimum cost of 300 points. Unless you base the army around them, and put everything you can into buffing them, Ushabti aren't worth it in my books. Really unfortunate because the models are spectacular. But I will have to test them more.

On other notes I found that Chariots really REALLY pack a punch now. The D6 impact hits really does help. I'm thinking that at 2000 point armies, 2 units of 6 should be standard. They are quite pricey but they will do the job. Otherwise I would suggest one unit of 6 and two units of 30 spears. Which will bring you to around 600+ in points? Very roughly maybe 700pts. Magic is a big part of tomb kings, I can see many competitive lists being based around psychology and magic. With probably something like a HLP (Lvl4) and to lvl2 LP Backed up by a casket and one if not two of the Priest Bone giants. With screaming skull catapults and a character with the mask. You have a lot of fear and terror causing abilities. Stupidly good magic and a negation of their LD bonuses. Although there not great, I'm loving my big block of skellies right now, my 1k points is run with 30 spears 20 bowmen (2 units of 10) 3 chariots 3 Ushabti a Tomb scorpion priest and prince. It seems pretty solid but for the Ushabti and I haven't really used the Scorpion much but I don't have high hopes. That's my two cence anyway.

[Jericho]

I agree with an awful lot of that. Magic heavy armies can be effectively supported by Casket and Hierotitan(s) if you ask me. The Titans make excellent bodyguards for your hill full of Casket/Archer HLP Bunker/Catapults.

Definitely struggling to find a solid role for Ushabti that another unit doesn't do better. Ushabti and Tomb Guard in the same list is extremely tough to pull off as well, both being expensive Special units that beg to be increased in unit size.

I'm still making my unit of 18 Ushabti (currently have 8 and getting 4 off a friend for next to nothing) but I'll be very surprised if I ever field it in a remotely serious list.

[Jericho]

Re: Chariots I definitely agree that they are deserving of more attention than they are getting. They are a fantastic recipient of the augment spells available to the army and get full heals from Restless Dead. Command for a dime is plenty affordable as well.

I don't get why people don't like them much. I won't be taking 12 but I am actually tempted to take some of the ~10 that I have and never used. Shame the characters on Chariots are a bit dodgy. Things get awkward when their ride dies and it can't be healed.

[Everblight]

With the new rule though a tomb prince/king on and in a chariot unit is quite safe. Because the 'And they rode to war rule' kicks in meaning if the chariot the character rides dies he can jump to another chariot effectively. But if he then leaves that unit, he can never join it again.

I haven't read all the pages but a few things I saw I want to talk about. Firstly the Ressi banner. Obviously, if you can afford it. Get it, you would be stupid to deny D6+2 Res bound spell banner. But If you cast it you DO NOT get another D3+1 from the nekharran lore rule. Because it specifically states that if a friendly WIZARD casts an augment spell on a unit then such and such. Since the banner isn't a wizard it only does the D6+2.

And also on the note of the MWBD rule. If a unit of skellies including a prince turns up on the bad end of a Chaos Nurgle warrior unit. I think the sensible thing to do would be reduce the Princes WS (To 4) and then it carries over. Therefore your entire unit is WS4 against them. Or 5 if you have a king. That seems like it's the most reasonable outcome.

I'm hopefully going to have a battle soon and will test the lores. Using light to see how effective it can be.

[Jericho]

GW is horribly inconsistent with their definition of "unmodified" stats. We'll see, but I expect the unit won't be affected by Mark of Nurgle.

I will look up the chariot rules again, I have no recollection at all of him kicking charioteers out of their set of wheels when his die.

[KimikoPT]

Indeed, that rule says if he loses his chariot he can continue in the unit on foot, if he leaves he cannot join it again.

[Everblight]

It's called 'and the tomb kings rode to war' And also If you think about it, MWBD says it gives the Tomb princes unmodified Weapons skill to the unit. So considering that would should happen is his unit have Weapons skill 5 while he (Still being vulnerable to it becasue it doesn't say HIS weapons skill can't be modified) would drop to 4. So the character would be a lower weapon skill than his unit :P

[Jericho]

That's my reading of it as well. He's not very good at self-motivating I guess

[Skyros]

The lore attribute is D3+1 wounds.

Secondly the resurrecting fallen warriors passage on 28 only states that characters that have joined units cannot regain wounds. Characters which are not within a unit do seem however to be fair game to heal, given the lore attribute is neither a spell nor a magic item.

This is correct.

The lore attribute is neither a magic item, nor a spell. We know this from the FAQ.

It is therefore not restricted from healing back character wounds.

However, we are told we cannot heal our characters if they are in units.

So, the only way to heal characters is if they are their own units, which is ill advised.

The RAW is quite clear, the actual use of this is extremely limited, and the RAI is anyone's guess, so it's not a terribly important discussion since I really don't see it s gamebreaking either way. I suppose it's interesting in a purely analytical 'how to interpret vague rules' standpoint, but I'm not going to care if a TK player says he can heal his characters outside of units.

They can heal characters the same way they can heal constructs that are single monsters - it's a unit of one model and is thus not a unit with non rank and file models and it is not a healing effect being provided by a spell or magical item.

Right, so obviously they need to FAQ this. It is quite clear that they didn't want characters to get healed

No, it's quite clear they didn't want characters *in units* to be healed. Characters that are their own units they obviously did want to be healed, or they wouldn't have worded it the way they did and instead of saying "Characters IN UNITS may not be healed" they would have simply said "Characters can never ever be healed"

[Asymmetric]

The RAW is quite clear, the actual use of this is extremely limited

I quite agree.

Getting much use out of it is situational.

Prince aphohas (the EBTS flying scarab guy) is probably the most likely unit to directly benefit from it.

[Skyros]

I'm not convinced that they can, to be perfectly honest.

I think that should tell you your interpretation is wrong, given that it specifically says TK construct monsters can only regain one wound per phase. If they can't be healed at all, why bother with the rule?

Not being able to heal constructs is a way way way bigger deal than being able to heal characters outside of units.

[Skyros]

I'm more than willing to move on and talk about something else.

For example, has anyone made a satisfying army yet built around Stalkers, Ushabti or Knights? I really like the rules for all three, but after sinking 25% into core and at least as much into Lords/Heroes it can be tricky.

Ushabti are just bad.

Stalkers are actually quite underrated, IMO. Their gaze can be very useful on a few key targets and they will get to gaze the turn they come up.

You can't charge the turn you come up so for instant neutralization of war machine batteries, these guys are key.

necro knights look quite appealing, especially with the 3+ armor save. I'm toying with the idea of making a list with NO constructs and the SC necrotect and a big (6+) unit of necro knights...could be interesting!