I'd like to do both and I think with some clever use of the tails in the kit I can do itOriginally Posted by EDMM
I'd like to do both and I think with some clever use of the tails in the kit I can do it
I think the original poster was referring to making sure his large unit of Necro Knights get the re-rollable save vs. having it be only a random chance if you have both a unit of Stalkers and Knights.I'd like to do both and I think with some clever use of the tails in the kit I can do it
Yeah, randomizing the benefit kinda sucks. I'd rather pay more for Ramhotep and choose, but I suppose the exact reason for the randomness is probably to avoid making that sort of Deathstar list too easy.
Only if dinner and the movie were both of a high quality...
Well it's not stopping me. But I do wish I could drop in some Stalkers.
I do think they will be: at best amazing; and at worst quite useful.
Just wondering if a character gain any save Value from a chariot and if so if it is combined with his own equipment seeing how they tend to have Lightarmor
would help alot to be 4+ rather than 5+ save
I think they get +1 for being mounted. But you should be able to choose who you hit, the chariot or the character inside it.
Chariots follow all the rules for Monstrous Mounts.
+1 AS, both hit by templates, choose who to attack in close combat.
seem fair enough
Though had hoped for +2 AS the fact it does help is appriciated
Also what do you guys think of chariots in the new book compared to the old?
Worth taking a TK riding a chariot inside a unit of chariots?
possibly give him Golden mask
Last edited by Chain; 11-05-2011 at 21:45.
It's a viable option but I can imagine most people going for a LVL4 HLP rather than a Tomb King. Unless your talking quite high points.
2600
but was mainly doing it for an alternative list where i could use Ramhotep in a unit of Tomb Guard and only have a unit of N Knights as my Constructions add in a prince or King in that TG unit and It would start to hit pretty hard with
Ws 5-6 hatred and frenzy + KB
I admit considering the Chariots was mostly out of curiosity about trying the golden mask at it's full effect
my first list has to be redone anyway due to not being sure to get the rerolls on te knights
Edit:
Would also like to see just how devastating a charging Colesseus with great weapon would be with speed of light cast on it(orsomething else to make it better at hitting)
Last edited by Chain; 12-05-2011 at 01:37.
Yes, but you'll likely only get two turns with the stalkers before your opponent organises something to charge them, the turn they pop out and the turn after the opponent turns to face them, and being unable to march with a pitifully short range on the gaze attack they'll be unlikely to get out of the way.
Stalkers can't take anything nastier than a WM crew in combat, so if you can't deal with one war machine per turn you'll only get rid of one before the stalkers run out of time.
Is that a joke, I don't know anyone who wouldn't pay a few extra points to give their war machine an extra wound, I certainly buy orc bullies for all my O&G warmachines when I use them.In warhammer you always round up. All joking aside, I had not done the math but half a wound is enough for me to test my luck. Also I think brets have to pay for their 4th crew as do goblins(I think), which at least in the bret department is not a good investment.
any argument to say that they're thinking of us by turning metal to resin is as convincing as a frenzied Khorne worshipper covered in blood, still chomping on a victim, with a Khorne sigil tattooed to his forhead pleading a case of mistaken identity when questioned about a murder.
If your opponent turns one unit to face the stalkers, then it will now present its back to your main battle line, and it will make a hole in his own battle line that you could exploit with your other units. He could try with a small support unit to preserve his battle line, but then your 3 stalkers with 6 S5 attacks (and maybe 3 stomps depending on the unit type) might well kill the support unit.
No offense, but presupposing a game situation where an opponent would have to move certain units is ridiculous, there are countless reasons why your opponent may have other support units he could use to deal with the stalkers without turning around one of his principle combat blocks, and even if it did, it will take a TK battle line 3 turns just to reach the middle of the table, so it may not be a problem at all.
I thought stalkers were warbeasts, what unit do warbeasts get stomp against? And 6 str5 attacks with a below average WS isn't that terrifying, esp when you will almost certainly be hitting you first, 3 hits, 2 wounds on virtually everything bigger than a goblin before saves.
any argument to say that they're thinking of us by turning metal to resin is as convincing as a frenzied Khorne worshipper covered in blood, still chomping on a victim, with a Khorne sigil tattooed to his forhead pleading a case of mistaken identity when questioned about a murder.
Or just average points. It's not like either of them are that expensive and it's not like the average 600-625pts for Lords is anything to scoff at.
Thing is he's only doing what you've been doing.
Gonna have to agree with godless there. You cant say that a negative of stalkers is that the opponent will have a unit to deal with them and then completely disregard the fact that they may have to turn/redirect a unit to deal with them.
Even when I play my dwarves, with dragon slayers for war machine protection, it is impossible to cover every angle of approach when fielding only 1/2 slayers. I usually count on the fact that the unit must approach my line and that I can adjust my defenders accordingly in 2 turns rather than 1. Stalkers coming up close to the table edge might give me problems and allow for 3 turns of shooting instead of 2, and will most likely blast my slayer off his feet. This then forces me to rotate artillery/hand gunners to deal with it, which are now not pummeling the TK's slow moving front line.
Dwarves have one of the most efficient war machine defenders. Other armies usually have to deploy units without the 180 degree vision angle to defend, if they even do. If not then they will have to turn something around or risk their guns/missile troops. As a runner of multiple hell-cannons I am definitely concerned with facing stalkers. Are they the best unit ever, no, will they be game swingers, maybe.
Blood and Skulls, Plague and Famine, Change and Mutation, and Sexytime!
“If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you” - Bruce Lee
You're kind of missing the point in what I was saying, I'm not suggesting your opponent will have every angle covered to be able to charge the stalkers straight after they emerge, I'm saying most players will be able to get a support unit in position to charge the turn after they emerge, and then will charge them the turn after that.
Stalkers can't march so they'll find it very difficult to escape a charge arc of a unit that is directly facing them, and given that they will pop out on T2 or 3 most of the time the rest of the army will be no-where near them to help out.
Here is what I envisage happening fairly often
T2 - stalkers emerge outside of enemy support units charge arc, but close enough to the WM to gaze
opponent's turn - support unit moves to face stalkers and shoots if it can
T3 - stalkers assault a WM or gaze again
oppontent's turn - stalkers get charged and most likely wiped out
If 3 stalkers could reliably take out 1 warmachine a turn most of the time they'd be worth it because they could get rid of two machines before their time was up, but with average rolling they will not take out an average 3 man I3 crew in one volley, and with only 6 attacks its not a certain thing in combat either. Combined with the fact that 3 stalkers can expect misfire every other turn and damage themselves, or worse lose an entire model and there are much more efficient ways to hunt warmachines in the TK list.
I guess I just see situations where there are no warmachines to shoot at and all there is to fire your 165pt unit at is some high int infantry.
any argument to say that they're thinking of us by turning metal to resin is as convincing as a frenzied Khorne worshipper covered in blood, still chomping on a victim, with a Khorne sigil tattooed to his forhead pleading a case of mistaken identity when questioned about a murder.
No.
They are Monstrous beasts. They'll get automatic strength 4 stomp attacks against infantry, warbeasts, etc.
I don't understand your arguement that stalkers are terrible in closecombat. Their as tough as Ogre Ironguts to bring down, hardly fodder. When you consider there ability to easily position on flanks, there Int of 3+halberds and movement of 7, there arguable no worst as a combat unit than ushabti, certainly not if they can avoid supporting attacks back despite the lower WS and attacks.
A unit of 6 will one shot warmachines.
A unit of 6 will one shot most monsters.
A unit of 6 is going to win combat against almost any "support" units and quite a few core troops.
A unit of 6 with smiting and a rear/flank charge will be causing serious problems even for elite troops.
And if the enemy simply turns to face them they risk getting the rest of the TK battleline rammed into there rear.
Yea, it really depends on how the opponent deploys. If they take one warmachine then you bet you'll have that support unit right next to it, and able to do as you said. If they take multiple they will most likely be spread out along the line (for better angles/range, supporting multiple parts of battle line, and to avoid complete destruction/inhibition by spell/engagement due to close proximity).
Yes, assuming there is only one war machine in the opponents line, stalkers will most likely have 2 turns to live, but most lists that take war machines take multiple, and only a foolish opponent stacks them in a location where they could be tied up or angles are diminished. This means that the opponent has most likely either employed multiple support units for war machine defense, OR, has assumed that one unit will be able to intercept appropriately throughout the game which is most likely the case since most armies have a single war machine hunting unit, or must outflank your line to get to war machines. A smart TK player will simply pick the war machine farthest from that unit, destroy it, and live longer. Not saying they will work great, but played right against heavy war machine lists (which is the meta for several armies) they should survive longer than 2 turns.
As for their usefulness outside war machines, while I would never flank/rear charge with them (in most cases), there are several competitive lists with lone mobile characters (Tzeentch lord on disc, Slaanesh Masque, most monsters) or elite calvary where a surprise shot with stalkers could easily swing the game. even with a good ward save, that many shots are bound to get at least several wounds. Simply popping them in that units blind spot will ensure no return charge, and will at least force your opponent to deal with them somehow.
Stalkers are really a harassment unit that CAN be used against war machines. Countless times I have seen players try to run down a fiend of Slaanesh only to expose their flank/rear. In the end all the fiend is going to do is die, these guys will at least take some with them. Sure some armies will shrug off the hits, but certain armies will literally have to deal with them or they are easily making their points back (unless you roll 3 misfires, but then nothing can help you)
Blood and Skulls, Plague and Famine, Change and Mutation, and Sexytime!
“If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you” - Bruce Lee
6 can take out a warmachine granted, but are you really going to field 6? Stalkers are much easier to kill than ogre iron guts. Very few attacks with no way of gaining more, a below average WS and the fact that they take additional wounds from losing combat. Comparing them to Ushabti is not really helping your case, -1WS, -1Str, -1A, so worse at almost every stat that is important in combat...
As long as the monster has 5 wounds or less and no ward or regen save, so not really that many monsters...A unit of 6 will one shot most monsters.
That rather depends on your definition of "support unit", but most people would be willing to sacrifice a support unit to tie up a 300+pt enemy flanker. I will add that you'd better have a very large space clear of terrain if you're going to bring up a unit of 6 stalkers as they're foot print is huge whether you deploy them 3x2 or 6x1.A unit of 6 is going to win combat against almost any "support" units and quite a few core troops.
A unit of 6 with smiting and a rear/flank charge will be causing serious problems even for elite troops.
And if the enemy simply turns to face them they risk getting the rest of the TK battleline rammed into there rear.
And you still have the added problem that the stalkers have a 66% chance of emerging on T2 when the rest of the TK army is only 8" out of its deployment zone and still well out of charge range.
I also don't think it would be a difficult proposition for an opponent to turn a main block to deal with a unit of 6 stalkers and pull its other units to close the gap because you've got so many points tied up in that one unit that your main battle line is already going to be a fair bit smaller than it usually would be.
any argument to say that they're thinking of us by turning metal to resin is as convincing as a frenzied Khorne worshipper covered in blood, still chomping on a victim, with a Khorne sigil tattooed to his forhead pleading a case of mistaken identity when questioned about a murder.
Will I be taking 6? Yes. For prescisely the reasons listed. They annhilate heavy cavalry and monsters hard and aren't vulnulerable to support units like a unit of 3 is.
I'd compared them to Ushabati because they don't have the primary weaknesses the Ushabti have. 1) Striking last. 2) Having to engage the enemy in the front. 3) Having to walk across the board. Stalkers circumvent many of these issues, if the enemy can't get support attacks on them then they will be a more effective combat unit that ushabti.
You can add all the monsters with Int 1 and 2 to that list.
Let's put it another way, how monsters in the game are likely to survive 2 shooting attacks from 6 stalkers. Not many. Not many at all.
The size of the bases can be as much an advantage for positioning post deployment as a detriment.
I don't know what your defination of a support unit is but its going to have be something fairly bulky to beat 6 stalkers, presuming it doesn't just get gazed down in the first place.
My army only uses 1 unit of infantry. the rest is all knights/chariots/sphinxs/stalkers. I think I can often be in position to combo charge fairly early. If they want to turn there troops around to face the stalkers, by all means.
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