Toms Youtube Battle Reports

[tmarichards]

Not quite, Pit/Purple Sun/Dwellers are all nasty but they're all harder to cast under the ETC comp, and if they come in to try and snipe the Cauldron then I can burn my scroll then snipe their mage

The biggest problem for the Cauldron under the comp is likely to be a Skitterleaping Brass Orb

[Akkaryn]

I would go with Metal rather the fire, the buffing spells are nearly equal (I'd rate Metal higher just) and the advantage of being able to nuke Mournfang etc is quite handy. I also do like Death, I think it's underrated but I've found it does create a "No Fly" Zone for enemy characters which gives you massive control in the game.

[Clockwork]

Metal spells also count as Flaming - making Searing Doom useful against Treemen and Treekin. The only difficulty is that the target has to have an armour save to be hit.

[Setomidor]

Just came back from a 80 player tournament with the ETC rules, out of which there were 11 Ogre Kingdom players and 7 Tomb Kings The dice cap on Shadow/Death makes Ogres really, really good and so beating Ogres is key to doing well in the current metagame. Apart from that, most armies featured at least one "Death star" sized unit; 35-40 Savage Big Uns, 14+ Black Knights, 40 State Troops, 50 Gors and so on.

I've updated my Dark Elf list accordingly and I'm also thinking Death/Metal might be the best combination of lores. Purple Sun and Final Transmutation gives you the means to deal with both Ogres and very big units of infantry. Enchanted Blades gives you at least something to ward of Ethereals (something you're otherwise desperately lacking!), and as you said the metal signature spell (oh, mama!) is godsent considering Mournfangs / Demigryphons / Vampires etc.

All things considered, what I'm shooting for list-wise is quite close to your draft:

Lvl 4, Metal, Dagger, Lifetaker OR Obsidian Amulet
Lvl 4, Death, Scroll

Pegasus, Cloak/Stone, GW
Pegasus, Pendant/Dragonhelm
Cauldron BSB

28 Spears, FC, Standard of Dicipline
10 Spears, Mus
24 Crossbows, Mus, Champ
10 Crossbows, Mus, Champ
5 Harpies
5 Harpies

20 Black Guard, Mus
Chariot
Chariot

The differences from your list are mainly:
- GWs on Cloak/Stone pegasus.
- Possibly Obsidian Amulet on the Lvl 4 instead of Lifetaker. This is a hard one, but 3++ against all Magic (and 5+ against shooting) with Cauldron buff is HUGE.
- Definitely include champions for your Crossbows. 5 pts for +1 BS is equivalent to another bowman when hitting on 6:es (and halv a bowman when hitting on 5+).
- I find the 10-man Spearman unit very versatile. Sometimes they're just a unit my mages can hide in when the enemy gets close, and sometimes i deploy them as a screen in front of my big crossbow units to give them hard cover.
- I also think that 2 chariots and another 5 harpies are more tempting then another BG unit. Chariots gives you yet another 4 crossbowmen (they do not count towards restrictions), and creates a no-go zone in front of your BG unit.

Good luck and looking forward to YouTube reports using your DE list!

//Seto

[tmarichards]

Wit the amount of Death magic that may well be floating around at ETC comped events, I think MR2 might well be a better shout instead of Lifetaker- but only if I do in fact take a Cauldron :/

Interesting idea on the great weapon on the CloakStone peg, do you not find that R3 and only a 3++ means he dies a bit too much in combat?

[Setomidor]

Hrm, yeah you're right, it probably makes more sense to move the GW to the pendant character instead. That way, the 2+ with reroll will make the Cloak/Stone character very reliable against low S opponents (where his S4 might also be sufficient), while the pendant character can go after stuff with higher S and T, ensuring that he has enough S to deal with the monster while the Pendant will keep him safe. Lance is of course an option too, but it feels a bit more like hit or miss.

[tmarichards]

Ok so, I've finally sorted my ticket for CtW and I'm taking Wood Elves after all. The thought of having to play 6 games with Dark Elves bores me to tears, so at least I should have fun playing with Wood Elves. There are soft scores for painting at the event, and I don't have a dragon painted to fit my army colour scheme yet (although I do have one lined up) which means I'm taking a variation on my current infantry list which I know better than any other build:

Lorenlord

Level 4, Scroll

BSB, HoDA

10 gg, musician

10 gg, musician

10 gg, musician

15 gg, full command, Flaming banner

8 Dryads

8 Dryads

6 Treekin

6 Treekin

7 Waywatchers

7 Waywatchers

Eagle

Eagle

This is about the best infantry list I think Wood Elves can do under the comp, which is essentially a messy messy abortion. I don't know if I'm just missing the point of a lot of it and it's going over my head, or if this is what happens when you try and write a comp pack by committee, but certainly parts of it remind me of when I was a child in school and my work was really messy and the teacher would take one look at it and tell me to back to my seat and do it again...

The Lorenlord essentially adds nothing- 205pts that will help in a couple of match-ups and that's it. My plan for him is to try and draw out dispel dice each phase then Savage Beast him for the 7 shots ignoring armour. However, with just 4 units of Glade Guard and 3 characters, it won't be long before the characters are either in the same units or out on their own so I may use my Waywatchers more defensively than usual for an extra bunker.

Just 45 Glade Guard is a killer, and I really think it's unnecessary especially as under the ETC comp Skaven, Lizardmen and Ogres are basically uncomped. Again, the comp might be going over my head here but in my opinion at least those 3 armies need comping harder than Wood Elves. The extra 200pts are nice, but given how complex some of the comp on other armies is the extra points just seems like an afterthought- almost as if they've written off the idea that many teams will take Wood Elves to the ETC and so they don't feel the need to think their comp through and instead just chuck some extra points around.

2x6 Treekin is nice, but it makes me sad just how much they cost in relation to Mournfangs/Demigryphs, both of whom are substantially better in terms of pure stats, and also in terms of internal book synergy. What's worse is that because Demigryphs and Mournfangs are going to be so prevalent, a lot of people will be ready to stop them- and the things that can stop Mournfangs/Demigryphs will also ruin my Treekin :/

So, overall, not my best list by any means. The aim is to come out with top Wood Elf and a third finish.

[TsukeFox]

Why did you not make the Loren lord an Alter Kindred? At least then it will be easier to hide and one more attack will increase the odds of getting 6s to wound with that mighty str3 attack.

[tmarichards]

35 pts for one more attack and not being able to be the general, and to not be able to go into a unit just didn't seem worthwhile.

[Akkaryn]

I would personally ditch one unit of waywatcher goodness for a couple of units of wardancers.

I've found that 2 units of them are a bit ott with the lorenlord (I take watchers for the ability to negate armour rather than character snipers.)

The wardancers however have proven quite effective for me in blitzing an opponents character in combat whilst also serving as a medium priced redirector at the same time.

[tmarichards]

Not a bad idea. I like having the second unit for redundancy though.

In any case, I'm also working on another list to take to a team ETC comp event in a few weeks. Triple Treeman and 17 Treekin might just be nasty when you have a certain amount of control over the match-ups, I'd certainly feel happy running at Skaven without a Doomwheel with that list!

[tmarichards]

Updated with the Call to War 2012 preview.

[Akkaryn]

Just watched the preview. I think the list is decent, how ever with the sheer amount of Treekin you have, I would have been tempted to add a Treeman in there and use Life. I've been a big user of beasts with my elves and I'm just feeling that being able to top up wounds on the Treekin/half depleted units of GG would be useful.

I'm getting a bit bored of seeing a unit of GG reduced to a couple of members then effectively having to run off with them making them useless. (My spell weaver has a habit of miscasting on 2 dice destroying lots of her unit)

[tmarichards]

Ok so, some quick facts from Call to War 2012. This weekend, there will be:

89 Mournfangs from 17 Ogre players, an average of 5. 24 each.

26 Treekin from 3 Wood Elf players, and average of 8.7 each.

On the basis of these averages, we can see that Treekin are far more broken and common and thus must be comped harder in future events. Mournfangs should instead be given a points deduction, and moved to core.

20 Slann between 12 Lizardmen players. This makes me sad.

18 Scar-Vets between those same 12 Lizardmen players. Funnily enough, none of them are on foot- the only logical reason for this is because GW do not do a nice model for a Scar-Vet on foot, as all Lizardmen players are just in it for the hobby. Incidentally, this also vexes me.

2 hydras from 4 Dark Elf players. As I believe I have said for a while now, the day of the hydra is over (good riddance).

2 Star Dragons and a Moon dragon from 6 HE players.

Here's the link to the full pack of closed lists:

http://www.protechcomputers.org/warh...osed_Lists.pdf

[Lord Dan]

Cool breakdown there. Looking forward to the reports, for sure. How many games will there be in the event?

[tmarichards]

6 games overall. My aim is my usual- top third and top Wood Elf.

[Lord Dan]

Sounds good to me. Top 3rd out of, what is that, about 100 players? Having scrolled through the lists I have to admit I'm a bit apprehensive for you, given the nature of some of those builds. Let me ask you this- what list do you think you'll struggle against the most, and what would be the best first round match-up for you (given that the rest are determined by how well you do)?

[tmarichards]

Aye, 106 players.

Got to agree about some of those lists, for the life of me I cannot see how and Ironblaster + 10 Mournfangs or double Grey Seer, Abomb, 100+ clanrats all the toys, a WLC and a Doomwheel are deemed acceptable, but 66 Glade Guard is not. I really do hope that the ETC comp starts again from scratch, as it stands I think it's a long way off the mark. Leaving Lizards/Skaven/Ogres basically uncomped (or at last, relatively uncomped compared to other armies in what is meant to be a tough comp rules set) just doesn't make sense. I don't know whether a lot of it is going over my head, or if this is what happens when you write a comp pack by committee, but I really believe that it is a long way off the mark.

I actually forgot to mention my first round draw, as it was done on Twitter- I have John Humpage and his Tomb Kings. I'm a little bit apprehensive, as my list doesn't really have a great focus point- 12 Treekin is a nice combat force, but they are by no means reliable (only WS4, just 3 attacks each, no re-rolls), and only 45 Glade Guard means I need t pick my match-ups carefully. He has 2 catapults that will make the Treekin pretty vulnerable, so the solution to that is to get them into combat as soon as possible. As part of that, I want to get them stuck into things that are worth putting 390pts of Treekin into, so the Glade Guard must clear the chaff away. Fairly standard stuff, but with 20 less Glade Guard I feel a bit more worried because it changes the whole dynamic of my list- I can no longer remove entire blocks with shooting or whittle them down to the extent that Dryads/Treekin can go in and finish them off, instead I can still do some damage but I'm not sure if it will be enough. I also lose a lot of my deployment potential because I can't do my usual 6 drops before committing anything, as every single Glade Guard unit has to count. The extra Treekin are nice, but it's an awful lot of points and as good as they may be against some options, there are units in the game that they simply cannot fight.

Lists wise, I really do not want to play Lizardmen. Double Slann is horrendous for me, especially the Light/Metal/Death Slann that are running around at the event which can turn the Treekin/characters into free points. I don't have enough Glade Guard to clear the chaff, and a single Scar-Vet can beat an almost unlimited amount of Treekin especially with magic support.

Likewise, Ogres- I cannot kill Mournfang. Sure I can get lucky and go for an Amber Spear, but that's not even close to a viable solution. Even with 66 Glade Guard I struggle to hurt Mournfangs at range, 45 I may as well not bother shooting them at all. Treekin can indeed beat Mournfangs in combat, especially if I Wildform them, but the problem is that unless I can really catch him out of position the MFangs will just flee. Even if he doesn't flee, and I get into the MFangs and kill them all, I then end up with 390 pts of Treekin fighting the Gutstar, which I cannot kill unless I get obscenely lucky. Ironguts don't like getting shot, but again, 45 Glade Guard simply does not kill enough. As always, Wood Elves do not have a viable answer to Ironblasters so if they are used aggressively (read- properly) I end up with 3 options that I have to deal with, and at best I can maybe deal with 2.

Empire will be a pain- Demigryphs are similar to Mournfang. The difference in damage output is of precisely no importance to me, as when it come to Wood Elves Mournfangs either cannot touch the Treekin (they really can't hurt me, it's very funny to watch) or they remove an entire Glade Guard with breathing room, Demigryphs will also not be able to touch the Treekin but they will still delete entire Glade Guard units.

As for match-ups that I like- Skaven without a Doomwheel are not really that big of a deal. I hate playing them, because they have the option to swing games a long long way with just a handful of magic rolls/toys- to be honest, that's just the nature of the book- which means that if I put a foot wrong, it's very possible for all my toys to come off. However, if I play it properly and get a bit of luck I'm starting to get my head round it a bit so I feel confident getting a win. However, the Doomwheel shuts me down completely as it can easily remove half a Treekin unit.

To be honest, looking over the lists there aren't any that jump at me as something I really really want to play- the same as SCGT. So, to make up for not having many good match-ups, I'm just going to have to play better .

[Malorian]

Well best of luck. When I saw you were about to go into a tournament I was hoping it was the Slannless lizardmen list you were talking about, but it will be interesting what you can pull off with this.

[TsukeFox]

1st off-
MAD props for the DE & Ogre player who said bump the LvL4.
2nd-
the 1st Empire List (page 12?) with no infantry & 3/4 units of demigryphs, 3 cannons, 2 lazer cannons- just WOW.

3rd: 1st vamp list looks scarrry!! Annie sometin.

4th-
A Big Booo! To the Chaos Dwarf player who took he easy way out and took the Destroyer. BOOO.
I fear for all wood elves out there.