I'm willing to wait to see the why before I grab the pitchforks.
I still think £20 for 20 models is pretty reasonable, if they look as good as what we've seen so far. Compared to, say, £18 for ten.
I'm willing to wait to see the why before I grab the pitchforks.
I still think £20 for 20 models is pretty reasonable, if they look as good as what we've seen so far. Compared to, say, £18 for ten.
The Collect Call of the CthulhuOriginally Posted by Rick Blaine
I will keep this in mind in case I ever want to be a Necron bride.
Damien 1427's Broad Collection of Tat - My attempt at actually painting things.
As long as warpath only requires half the minis KoW does, and the KoW prices don't double then I'm happy enough with these prices. They're still cheaper by quite a bit than GW for the most part and I'll be using 40k minis anyway
I think the mantic game box looks decent, and I'm considering it as I have a young gaming group that mostly don't own their own armies (and I want to save any money I can on the purchase).
However I see myself buying exclusively from online retailers, like I do with GW for my cost to value ratio to be worthwhile.
On the other hand, if I was able to sell some of my GW models at a one-one ratio for Warpath models I probably would do so, as I much prefer the aesthetic.
I am worried that I'm not looking to buy any of this stuff for me personally, as I would assume that most people are not going to go out and buy warpath minis for their local club.
Project Log:
Currently: Ghostly Brettonians and Mordheim
It was only 2 years ago, that GW prices were cheaper than that.
Also, the GW kit includes heavy weapon options which you have to pay £2.80/model for from mantic for the resin plastic.
Even if the warpath sprues have tons of components (lack of heavy weapons on the basic sprue seems to indicate that there won't be), GW still has a much wider range of plastic kits, over a dozen for each each army, including massive vehicle kits. That's an important consideration, being able to buy a wide range of model kits with massive variety.
Also, the concept of "paying more for X model because of the rules".. in this case warpath being a skirmish game (it really isn't, though, the rules are mass-battle) is something I've come to expect from GW, not mantic. That's the main thing that's bothering me. It smacks of mantic starting down the same road that GW went down, after spending a long time mocking it for reasons that it now seems to be mimicing.
Just not seeing how these will be competitive compared to either existing sci-fi skirmish games (which require much fewer models than warpath), or 40k.
I am a huge fan of mantic and will probably buy a forgefather army anyway, but it'd be silly for me not to be objective about this point.
Last edited by scarletsquig; 16-08-2011 at 12:31.
If you play any of Mantic's games, check out my Battlescribe project for KoW and Warpath.
Thank you for the summary.This is not a good move. At all.
Mantic are doubling their prices and there is absolutely no way to sugar-coat it.
This is a worrying move, part of me hopes Mantic don't feel a move closer to GW's price gouging is an appropriate strategy.
Is there any indication that Warpath will require a crap-ton of models (Like kings of war) or is the average play points value a bit lower, like it tends to be in 40k?
It should be much lower from the initial army lists. At least for the Forgefathers. For example, one regiment in particular lets you buy up to 8 heavy weapons at 30 points a piece. So that unit can easily be twice the value of an infantry regiment in KoW. The Forgefathers will be towards the low end of the model count though.
Frankly, with the way they're handling movement and such, it's going to have to be a smaller game, or they're going to have to extend the clock for the turns. Moving individual models skirmish style for a game that is supposed to be mass-combat is befuddling and there's no way to make that quick as they've got it now.
I find the pricing troubling. I like the models I've seen and really enjoy the styling and aesthetic. I also like the backstory that has been dribbled out and the general world that is being created, so it's far more interesting to me than the 40k backstory which never generated more than an enthusiastic yawn from me. But for a lot of people, it's going to be about price.
Sure, I think the Forgefathers will draw a lot of interest and buyers just for their look and the fact that so many Squats players miss their dwarves in space. But to make inroads, you're going to have to either a) thump the competition on looks, b) thump them on price, c) thump them on a ruleset so good it makes them want to switch.
With KoW, "A" is a matter of taste, and they can claim to win that enough for some fans. "B" is a clear win for Mantic against the main competition, and for my money so is "C". They hit all three ways to make inroads into the market.
With Warpath, "A" is a matter of taste again, and surely some of the models will gain traction. "B" is starting to give ground and it allows effective counter-arguments for the competition. And I'm unclear that "C" is in Mantic's favor this time. The rule set has some things going for it, but it feels far less developed than KoW did when it appeared. It's not as elegant and solid yet, IMO.
One factor that may be showing up is that I've heard that the "bulky" models like Orcs and Dwarves in the KoW line cost more to produce and they were much more limited on what could go on the sprue. (I'm assuming that to fill larger volumes, the injection mold requires more pressure which would require more metal to hold the shot.) While the dwarf characters I've got are much slimmer than the KoW plastic dwarves, that may be an issue.
It also may be the combination of lower model count for the dwarves affecting their price, as less units are anticipated to be sold. For the orcs, it would be the "bulkier model" syndrome affecting the cost. So we may be looking at some of the more expensive examples. I'll wait until we see human pricing before I really panic.
I've just seen Mantic say on facebook that they haven't finalised the prices yet, these are estimates and the actual prices will be worked out closer to the release. So they probably won't be quite that high, but it did also say that they would be higher than KoW.
Just putting that out there. I am not going to argue either way until I actually see what the kits will contain and see the models. Hard to judge the quality and value before then.
Ah, that's good news. I'll hold off on further comment until they are finalised.
From the perspective of giving out guide prices, I guess it makes more sense to give a high estimate than a low one.
As a rough guide though, I think that the greatax price point of £10 for 10 models and £18 for 20 seems like a better approach to take for high-quality plastics.
As for the resin plastics, £10 for 5 would be a whole lot better than £14... there's no point in doing resin plastics if they're just going to be the same price as the metals, that's what GW did with finecast.
If mantic can sell a boar rider for £2, then having a tiny little space dwarf for £2.80/model is going to look pretty ridiculous.
If you play any of Mantic's games, check out my Battlescribe project for KoW and Warpath.
I'm not sure how the mantic miniatures will compare in terms of size/quality etc, but I was expecting a pricing system more akin to imperial guard a few years back, £15 for 20 miniatures.
I've heard so many contradictions on the legitimacy of price rise excuses/reasons from GW that I'm not sure whether its down to company choice (i.e profit) or actual economic matters (recession, oil prices, and so on) that miniatures are more expensive. Is it even possible/financially viable to be selling boxes of 20 for £15 (or even the good old days of LOTR 24 for £12?)?
From my infinitely non-expert point of view, it seems people will go mad for and mass buy mantic products which seem insanely cheap (I myself spent close to £75 on mantic straight away despite only ever spending about £30 at a time for GW, simply because of the wonderful value) rather than the slightly discount version of 40k it seems to be. (in fact, on discount sites a box of 10 dark eldar for £14 for example)
This pricing scheme brings it into direct competition with GW.. and much as I'd like to bash them, the miniature quality is superior and the background more familiar to most people (as expected, its a much bigger company)
/my humble input
GW prices will soon rectify this problem... by being raised on a yearly base.
As we stated on Facebook, the prices outlined are inaccurate.
Ah, serves me right for not having facebook then
Well, that's pretty nifty.
The Collect Call of the CthulhuI will keep this in mind in case I ever want to be a Necron bride.
Damien 1427's Broad Collection of Tat - My attempt at actually painting things.
But does "inaccurate" in this case mean that they will cost less or more? Damned cynical mind. I think there is still quite a bit of time before these are released, most of the units are not even properly named and we have barely seen any of them. I think it is best to wait until these are up in the Mantic store itself before any judgements are properly made.
Last edited by Chicken Pig; 16-08-2011 at 16:56.
The Undead Horde of Mhorgoth The Faceless and The Abyssal Dwarf Legion of Terror, a log:
Updated
6th September:http://www.warseer.com/forums/showth...77#post4821377
dissemination of incorrect pricing and other fallacies are clearly the work of the 8th race, their true agenda shrouded in mystery.
Mantic, being the savvy internet viral marketers that they are, could have leaked the high end of their possible price range intentionally to see if the fanbase is willing to put up with it.
Of all the threads in all the forums in all the world you had to post into this one.
To which the answer is, apparently, "no."
EDIT: I could see those prices if they were basing it on number of sprues, with 5 troopers +options to each sprue, whereas (eg) the Skeleton troop frame has 10. So purely on a sprue by sprue basis we would be looking at £8 for 5 and £14 for 10. I would understand it, but I wouldn't be happy about it. I'd much rather Mantic didn't go down the GW route of 5 bodies, 10 heads, and 30 arms on each sprue with the option to make 3 different squads out of the same kit...
Last edited by rodmillard; 16-08-2011 at 17:31.
Mantic Fanatic
Wargamer's Pledge 2011: Final Score 106 Painted / 28 Bought
Wargamer's Pledge 2012: 2 Painted / 0 Bought
I think it best to wait for the official prices and pictures. I have a hunch they will be great miniatures at a fair and good value price (even the 'inaccurate' prices look fine to me).
The forgefather we have seen is really close to the concept art so I am sure the rest of the forgefathers, marauders and corporation (?) concept art we have seen will mean we are in for a lot of excellent miniatures over the next 12 months roll on October!!!
Right back to painting elves
Cymbeline Games
Eastern Front http://www.easternfrontwargames.co.uk/ in Norwich on September 16th for an almost full Mantic range plus demos. If you want to order and collect at the show message me thank you
Maybe im the only one who wasnt all that impressed with the forgefathers then? Something about them just doesnt sit right with me.. Perhaps its just a different sculpter whos art Im not a fan of but I had very high hopes after the dramatic increase in mini quality that mantic has shown since they released the elves
I'm sure you're not the only one, but that's the charm of subjective taste. Even some people who are Mantic fans haven't been sold yet. For me personally, as someone who usually has zero interest in sci-fi, the concept art got me interested in them. And having held them, I'm more impressed. So I'll definitely be buying some.
But the most common refrain with Mantic is "see it in person then decide". With this one, I'd say at least wait for the final painted version. A small change in camera angle *may* make all the difference for you.
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